One of the most important tracks on the deluxe edition is Fall At Your Feet early version.. well it and Left Hand... though Left Hand is important across various albums...

The Finn demos are great as ever, Fields Are Full Of Your Kind is a great addition. 

The unheard song demos are very interesting - they consistently show how the writing process works - stick with them as they will suddenly morph into something you know..

 

and how could I forget Be My Guest - why was this never given a full album spot?

Stuff I think about Woodface by Harry Trousers


- we have 7 songs recorded for album #3 on Afterglow. 3 more on the deluxe edition of Woodface. Tim Finn put out the attempt at "Throw your Arms around me" and there is a dodgy version of "Sound on Truth" out on the interweb. 

Crowded House can legitimately lay claim to having a lost album.

- Many of these reject songs have that bright reverb on the drums. Same as you can hear on "Whispers and Moans" and "Fame Is". It is as if that album was recorded right when tastes changed from 80s reverb to the more dry 90s sound. I wonder if the songs could be accurately divided into recording sessions by their drum sound.

- Neil Finn seemed really into having a yearning verse followed by a shouty bluesy chorus (see 'Sacred Cow', 'Fields', 'creek song/left hand'). Vice versa in the case of Fall at your Feet. I think he pulled it off on "In My Command".

- "Be My Guest" is awesome.

 

Shadowman posted:

From the Finn Bros session there is also: 

- Strangeness and charm (on the Tim Finn album)

- In love with it all (on Tim Finn album)

- Prodigal son (bside of Suffer Never?)

Plus the still missing Cemetery in the Rain. 

And have I been mis-informed, or was Sound of Truth not Finn Bros. instead of CH? I had it as being part of the Murchison Street demos for the aborted Finn Brothers album.

There is a bunch of footage from periscope studio and the whole band is there. Mark Hart puts some keyboard on "sound of truth" then they play it back. Neil Finn explains that his lyrics are just nonsense so the song isn't finished but it sounds great. There is also a scene where Nick Seymour talks about a song he wrote with some instrumental thing playing in the background.

If this has been mentioned elsewhere I apologize. My Woodface reissue disc has a problem with Tall Trees -- near the end, for about 1 second, there is some kind of muck up that sounds like phasing between the two channels. I'm not sure how else to describe it, but there is a definite audio problem that is not on the original. I ripped it in secure mode and the rip says 100.0% accuracy, but the problem is there so it must be on the disc. I compared with my old rip of Woodface to be sure.

So, wanting an error-free track, I went to 7digital and paid to download a FLAC of Tall Trees from the reissued Woodface. Guess what, the issue is on that too...so it's not just me.

Hate to say it but apparently, at least some of the discs were pressed with an error on Tall Trees. Hoping that's the only problem track I find.

If anyone out there does NOT have this issue, and wouldn't mind getting a clean FLAC of Tall Trees to me, I would very much appreciate it -- I already paid for it (twice) so I don't think there's any legality issue there.

slowpogo posted:

 

Hate to say it but apparently, at least some of the discs were pressed with an error on Tall Trees. Hoping that's the only problem track I find.

Yeah I just ripped a FLAC of Tall Trees from the re-issue and found the same error. Starts at 2:03.

Not a huge problem for me since I've already got the original album, but still a bit of a shame.

I ripped the 10 seconds starting at the 2'00" mark as a wav and put it on Finnatics for you to check for yourself. Right here I don't have the eq (good speakers, headphones) to compare the original CD with the reissue well enough to tell. So if this should sound ok to you, I can provide you with the FLAC of the song (PM me for that).

Dorthonion posted:

I ripped the 10 seconds starting at the 2'00" mark as a wav and put it on Finnatics for you to check for yourself. Right here I don't have the eq (good speakers, headphones) to compare the original CD with the reissue well enough to tell. So if this should sound ok to you, I can provide you with the FLAC of the song (PM me for that).

The bit you ripped has the error as well. It's like a glitch in the right audio channel, particularly noticeable if you're using headphones.

That's pretty disappointing, especially as it just arrived this morning. I know Sony had a couple of disc replacement exercises for Bob Dylan discs that had errors that only affected fractions of seconds. The Steve Hoffman forum is good for finding out such information. I wonder if Universal will replace the first disc for either those that have purchased or for later runs. 

re: Audio glitch on Tal Trees: Oh good, I thought it was just me!

If Universal could fix that error somehow and replace it with new pressings that would be fantastic. Like that DVD error with the 2006 live Split Enz DVD, would it be possible to mail out replacement discs? I'm sure the forum would let us know if this was to happen.

Dazz posted:

re: Audio glitch on Tal Trees: Oh good, I thought it was just me!

If Universal could fix that error somehow and replace it with new pressings that would be fantastic. Like that DVD error with the 2006 live Split Enz DVD, would it be possible to mail out replacement discs? I'm sure the forum would let us know if this was to happen.

I'd be perfectly fine with just a lossless file - Universal should make it a free download to the public on their website, no download codes or any of that crap. Just a free track to anyone who wants it. Tall Trees wasn't a single so they shouldn't mind too much, but they gotta suck it up because they made a pretty big, unprofessional screwup. It's not the most important thing for any of us to worry about, but at the same time it's a massive eye-roller.

although I forget, some people do still play the actual CD...

slowpogo posted:
Dazz posted:

re: Audio glitch on Tal Trees: Oh good, I thought it was just me!

If Universal could fix that error somehow and replace it with new pressings that would be fantastic. Like that DVD error with the 2006 live Split Enz DVD, would it be possible to mail out replacement discs? I'm sure the forum would let us know if this was to happen.

I'd be perfectly fine with just a lossless file - Universal should make it a free download to the public on their website, no download codes or any of that crap. Just a free track to anyone who wants it. Tall Trees wasn't a single so they shouldn't mind too much, but they gotta suck it up because they made a pretty big, unprofessional screwup. It's not the most important thing for any of us to worry about, but at the same time it's a massive eye-roller.

although I forget, some people do still play the actual CD...

Yep I still play the actual CD. I have never bothered with loseless files and not intending to do so in the forseeable future

I still find it hard to believe that nobody involved with the remaster project heard that glitch in Tall Trees. It's too obvious to ignore. So no one was around for a playback? Careless.

I dunno. These things happen, especially when it's a multi-album project. Maybe they thought it was a tremolo effect (don't laugh, it's possible.) Not as easy to spot the fault on speakers as it is on headphones - unless you already know it's there. Couldn't be 100% sure I would have spotted it if I'd been given a playback on speakers ahead of release.

It's only tall trees, it's hardly a classic :-)

In all seriousness, together with the messed up fades on I walk away and together alone, it does feel like the main albums were prepared pretty carelessly. It would only take a person reasonably familiar with the albums to give them a listen through prior to them being sent off to be manufactured.

IainK posted:

It's only tall trees, it's hardly a classic :-)

In all seriousness, together with the messed up fades on I walk away and together alone, it does feel like the main albums were prepared pretty carelessly. It would only take a person reasonably familiar with the albums to give them a listen through prior to them being sent off to be manufactured.

I've always liked Tall Trees. But, why do you assume the lack of fade outs on those other tracks is a mistake? Fades are a decision made during the mastering process, and being that the albums were remastered, apparently a different decision was made this time around. I think it's consistent with the "peek behind the curtain" offered by the bonus discs. I don't think it's a mistake, unlike the Tall Trees thing.

I certainly don't think the extended versions of a couple of tracks is lack of care.  To me it seems completely normal to include these seeing as a main selling point of these albums is the fact that there are tons of unreleased and 'different' versions of well-known songs.  And if people aren't a fan of the new endings, there are always the original pressings to revert back to.

I'd probably agree with it not being a 'care' issue, and perhaps limitations of what was available for the remasters.  I know, your instance, that some of The Band's albums on CD are not the same tracks as the original LPs. If everything was available, however, and someone chose to alter the songs without input from the band, I'd say it's questionable, though perhaps more common practice than you'd like to think. 

Whether one likes Tall Trees is not the point though is it? (For the record, I like it). I understand Jaffaman's reply. Having so many albums to master and collecting so much bonus material to do (not to mention organising interviews and artwork for the books - all excellent by the way), it's not hard to believe that something was bound to fall through the cracks.

Didn't Don Bartley notice it though when mastering the album? Or whoever it was at Abbey Road heard it when transferring the tapes to hi-res? Maybe they went out to grab a coffee during that that track . Anyway I'm not going to throw the disc out in disgust and I do love the remastering audio glitch aside.

As for the different fades and full endings etc...  Who would have a problem with that unless it is a shorter version/edit than  the original. Hearing the full end of "Can't Carry On" was a pleasent surprise although I first heard it on the 5.1 mix. (The surround mix was so different to the stereo with variations a-plenty!).

Dazz posted:

 so many albums and collecting so much bonus material (not to mention organising interviews and artwork for the books - all excellent by the way) to do that something was bound to fall through the cracks.

Eh, as a classical fan I can say classical companies, to give one example, put out much bigger collections all the time..."The Complete Beethoven" on 40 CDs and such...without bad tracks. I'm not unsympathetic to human error, but to say "it was bound to happen" is just not true. It's very possible to put out a 14 CD collection without mistakes

Dazz posted:

As for the different fades and full endings etc...  Who would have a problem with that unless it is a shorter version/edit than  the original. Hearing the full end of "Can't Carry On" was a pleasent surprise although I first heard it on the 5.1 mix. (The surround mix was so different to the stereo with variations a-plenty!).

I'd have a problem with it, in principle (this is all subject to be understanding of the term remastering being completely wrong!). Remastering bringing out detail you've not heard before is one thing, but changing the song in more fundamental ways is completely different. Your assumption seems to be that making the song longer is OK, but shorter is not OK. If I bought a Pet Sounds or Revolver re-issue, I wouldn't expect (or want) God Only Knows to have an extended intro, or I'm Only Sleeping to have an extra chorus. Those become alternative versions, in my eyes. Any argument that it's 'in the spirit' of the re-issues isn't really correct either, in my opinion - the albums should be as they were, alternative versions should be on disc 2.

Possessed7 posted:
Dazz posted:

As for the different fades and full endings etc...  Who would have a problem with that unless it is a shorter version/edit than  the original. Hearing the full end of "Can't Carry On" was a pleasent surprise although I first heard it on the 5.1 mix. (The surround mix was so different to the stereo with variations a-plenty!).

I'd have a problem with it, in principle (this is all subject to be understanding of the term remastering being completely wrong!). Remastering bringing out detail you've not heard before is one thing, but changing the song in more fundamental ways is completely different. Your assumption seems to be that making the song longer is OK, but shorter is not OK. If I bought a Pet Sounds or Revolver re-issue, I wouldn't expect (or want) God Only Knows to have an extended intro, or I'm Only Sleeping to have an extra chorus. Those become alternative versions, in my eyes. Any argument that it's 'in the spirit' of the re-issues isn't really correct either, in my opinion - the albums should be as they were, alternative versions should be on disc 2.

That opens up a can of worms. If I was that pedantic, I would argue that I don't want "I Walk Away" on the first album and I wanted "Can't Carry On" faded out early because that's how I remember it on my original Australian vinyl pressing. Yet I have found out that "Can't Carry On" was NOT faded out early on overseas pressings so which is the 'alternate' version? Depends on what country you bought your albums from I guess. I'm guessing CCO wasn't meant to be faded out but was during that vinyl album's preparation in Australia for reasons lost in the midsts of time. Imagine my surprise when I first heard the full ending on the DVD-A after years of being used to a fade-out.

Since Neil was active in these remasters, he probably chose this time to correct things that may have annoyed him in the past (like the applause at the end of "Together Alone" - he may have thought it was always there and was disappointed to find out it wasn't so he took this time to make sure it went back on as originally intended. I don't know if that happened but I'm using that as a hypothetical).

 

Dazz, I don't think it's being pedantic at all. It is pedantic in instances where its a difference of 1 or 2 seconds, but my comment was that I don't think it should be done, in principle, in any case. In my view, once the album is finished, that's it. I don't think it should be revisited 10, 20 years later and changed, in terms of tracks or length. The Waterboys reissued some albums with extra tracks and extended versions inserted into the original tracklist. The justification was that they couldn't fit on a single LP at the time, but I think that's just the way it goes - if you want to revisit it, it's not a reissue, it's a 'reimagining', it's a director's cut.  That's cool if you don't agree though, each to their own, and it's a 'bonus' for anyone who also has the originals. 

For the record, I'm not bothered at all by these changes, I just think the original version should remain unchanged for anyone hearing it for the first time.

The reissues are being marketed as that - reissues - rather than remasters or re-imaginings. Particularly the vinyls, which are, as far as I know, are in identical sleeves with the only clue that they are re-pressings being in the small print of the copyright information. For that reason I think fiddling with fades etc is a bit dubious - I want the albums as they were. The changes are small, granted, but the additional bit at the end of Together alone I find quite annoying.

Possessed7 posted:

Dazz, I don't think it's being pedantic at all. It is pedantic in instances where its a difference of 1 or 2 seconds, but my comment was that I don't think it should be done, in principle, in any case. In my view, once the album is finished, that's it. I don't think it should be revisited 10, 20 years later and changed, in terms of tracks or length. The Waterboys reissued some albums with extra tracks and extended versions inserted into the original tracklist. The justification was that they couldn't fit on a single LP at the time, but I think that's just the way it goes - if you want to revisit it, it's not a reissue, it's a 'reimagining', it's a director's cut.  That's cool if you don't agree though, each to their own, and it's a 'bonus' for anyone who also has the originals. 

For the record, I'm not bothered at all by these changes, I just think the original version should remain unchanged for anyone hearing it for the first time.

I agree in principle, but in the case of the debut album, things are a little tricky: is the original Australian LP/CD (with shorter Can't Carry On and no I Walk Away) the original, or is it the American LP with I Walk Away (and a longer Can't Carry On on the CD)?

While CH were based in Australia, they were signed to an American record company and recorded the album in the States. On that basis, it could be argued that the American edition is the original and the Australian issue was just a local variant that took account of the fact that I Walk Away had previously been recorded/issued by Split Enz.

harrytrousers posted:

There is a bunch of footage from periscope studio and the whole band is there. Mark Hart puts some keyboard on "sound of truth" then they play it back. Neil Finn explains that his lyrics are just nonsense so the song isn't finished but it sounds great. There is also a scene where Nick Seymour talks about a song he wrote with some instrumental thing playing in the background.

Is this on YouTube? 

I can see (or, rather, hear) why Fields are Full of Your Kind was nixed. It's like a hybrid of a handful of other CH songs:

the line "and there is sadness in your stare" is very similar to "they were a lifetime together" from She Goes On,

the title line sounds remarkably similar to the line "feather your nest" from Left Hand,

the guitar figure played under and after the line "I will remember" (at 1:00) is taken from the intro to I Feel Possessed,

the ending uses the same chord sequence as the "best of both worlds" line from Mansion in the Slums.

Clearly Neil was lacking inspiration when he put this one together

Paul H posted:

I can see (or, rather, hear) why Fields are Full of Your Kind was nixed. It's like a hybrid of a handful of other CH songs:

the line "and there is sadness in your stare" is very similar to "they were a lifetime together" from She Goes On,

the title line sounds remarkably similar to the line "feather your nest" from Left Hand,

the guitar figure played under and after the line "I will remember" (at 1:00) is taken from the intro to I Feel Possessed,

the ending uses the same chord sequence as the "best of both worlds" line from Mansion in the Slums.

Clearly Neil was lacking inspiration when he put this one together

Alternatively, you could say he was seeing inspiration everywhere.

I'd argue that "Fields" is greater than the sum of its parts. To my ears it's stronger than most (if not all) of the songs you mentioned. If the song we have now is what was submitted as part of the rejected 1990 album, I find it a little shocking it was passed over as a b-side in favor of both "Anyone Can Tell" and "Dr. Livingstone" (Woodface's only 2 new b-sides of its 5 singles) and then passed over again for Afterglow unlike "Left Hand" and "Sacred Cow." Of course, when you have an embarrassment of riches like the Neil Finn catalog, these things are basically inevitable. Ultimately, I'm ecstatic we have it now.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you there. I find Fields to be bland CH-by-numbers. Dr Livingstone, on the other hand, is one of my favourite songs. I just adore it; proof (if any was needed) of how great this band are that they can throw away a song/performance of such quality. I don't think I've ever played Dr Livingstone quietly

Fields sounds like a lot of songs from '89-'90 that got canned, with the shouted/bluesy chorus a la Left Hand, Anyone Can Tell, Sacred Cow, Legs Are Gone. I can kind of see why the record company rejected the first attempt at a third album, it wouldn't have had much variation. It must have just been the direction Neil felt like taking, because he had great songs like I May be Late and Be My Guest hidden up his sleeve. (The home demo of Be My Guest is way better than the Aus-rock supergroup version from '95 btw )

Edit to add: Dr Livingstone is great! Even though it fits the above mould, it has that dark, moody feel that makes it something special.

I'm listening to Fields on repeat now. I like it, but the references Paul gives are obvious. Paul, I'm curious to know if you would feel differently if you could hear it in a vacuum; i.e. if you didn't know Left Hand or She Goes On. Difficult now, but if it could stand on its on, what do you think?

Make no mistake, I love "Dr. Livingstone" as well. I just think "Fields" is an even better song. I have a certain fondness for all CH songs (well, the cover of "She's Not There" is the exception that proves the rule). "CH-by-numbers" is 100% a compliment in my book. 

Steve Shealy posted:

I'm listening to Fields on repeat now. I like it, but the references Paul gives are obvious. Paul, I'm curious to know if you would feel differently if you could hear it in a vacuum; i.e. if you didn't know Left Hand or She Goes On. Difficult now, but if it could stand on its on, what do you think?

Very good question. I think my honest answer would be that I'd still be underwhelmed by it. I've been enjoying listening to the demos and alternate versions of songs that feature ideas in different places. For example, I love Creek Song/Left Hand and Same Language As Me, so I'm not at all averse to stuff appearing in the "wrong place". I also don't mind Neil quoting himself occasionally. As Lavar78 notes: CH-by-numbers is a 100% compliment. An album of these guys going through the motions will still better 90% of the other music around.

In the end, Fields just doesn't float my boat the way many CH songs do. I don't dislike it, I just find it "meh" as they say. Which actually makes it a bit of a rarity. Normally, I either really like CH material (99% of it!) or I really don't. There are only a handful of tracks I'm ambivalent about, and this is one of them.

What surprises me most - hence my original post - is that we actually find the band repeating themselves musically. Ignoring the instances where elements of songs were canibalised for use elsewhere, I can't think of another instance where CH quotes itself musically, which is why I made the point that I can understand why it was nixed - not because it wasn't good enough - but because it seemed to imply that CH were running out of ideas.

Fields of Your Kind Is Ok , but I can understand why the record company wanted more work on the album.

I'm astonished that the verse from Left Hand and the chorus from Fall at your feet was once part of the same song !!!

Glad they changed that !

I also think Left Hand from the recurring dream live disc is far superior to the studio cut on Afterglow. It totally sounds like a going through the motions exercise, whereas the live version just seems to have more of a spark about it.

Yes, Woodface might well have made an excellent "White Album". But at that point in their career - with no sign of gaining any traction in Europe and Temple having stiffed in the one overseas market they'd had some real success in - the States - there was NO chance Capitol were going to run for that.

As it is, I think it's two songs too long (I'd lose Fame Is, Tall Trees and All I Ask and add Dr Livingstone.)

I LOVE 'All I Ask' one of my favorites.

Back in the day I listened to Woodface more than I'd ever listened to any album. I knew every song, every lyric, pretty much every second of sound on the album; and to me it was (and still is) perfection. I wouldn't change anything. That would be like trying to change history (and we all know how that worked out for Marty McFly in BTF2).

IMO 'Tall Trees' and 'Fame Is' are the weak points in the album, still they are stronger than weak points in most albums.

For me the weakest point of any Crowded House album is 'Even If'... a song that still makes me wonder 'what the hell were they thinking?'.

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

I LOVE 'All I Ask' one of my favorites.

Back in the day I listened to Woodface more than I'd ever listened to any album. I knew every song, every lyric, pretty much every second of sound on the album; and to me it was (and still is) perfection. I wouldn't change anything. That would be like trying to change history (and we all know how that worked out for Marty McFly in BTF2).

IMO 'Tall Trees' and 'Fame Is' are the weak points in the album, still they are stronger than weak points in most albums.

For me the weakest point of any Crowded House album is 'Even If'... a song that still makes me wonder 'what the hell were they thinking?'.

Well, we are on pretty unsolid ground there, according to our tastes here. I was once thinking that on Finn album we have even 3 really (sorry for expression) ugly songs - Kiss the road of Rarotonga, Nihwai and Buletts in my Hairdo. To me songs without any beauty, and sense. Rough but not in the way of Black and White Boy, or Inside Out or Tall Tree. They just shouldnt see the light of the day, by me. But, the other day, I look into thread about Kiss the road.., and aparently most of the voters like it! What, where, why, what...? But, there is... To me, Even if could have been out of Intriguer, cause there been much much better songs from that era which stayed out. But, far from Neils worst.. just name some - Thats what I call love, Kill Eye, Fame is, Hole in the ice, Strangest Friends, All Gods Children ofcourse etc... Not to mention at least 5-6 songs from Pajama Club and what I am affraid most (trying not to be negative), will be much more of that on some new father-son collaboration. But, who knows? Hope and praying I am wrong...

I guess someone has to stick up for Fame Is, so I'll just mention that it's one of my favorites from Woodface. I can't believe that someone decided that Even If was a better ballad than Eyes Grow Heavy! If you swapped those two and maybe put Turn it Round on instead of Inside Out then Intriguer would be one of the best albums ever.

In my opinion, that is. Good to see that just about every song has someone who loves it (even Rarotonga apparently... )

 

Taste is such a funny thing. "Whispers and Moans" is definitely my favorite Woodface track. "Fame Is" is one of my favorites as well. "All God's Children"? Can't get enough of that one, it's utterly perfect to my ears. "Hole in the Ice" is one of Neil's best solo tracks.

I think you've nailed the issue with Woodface there (it's not a couple of songs too long, whatever Neil says!) It's like someone thought that putting just about all the slower, ballad-type songs at the end of the album was a good idea. They're all great songs, but without uptempo songs to separate them they make the album drag out a bit.

And when I say issue, it's only a very minor one - I still consider Woodface one of the best albums in Neil's career

Hawk57 posted:

I think you've nailed the issue with Woodface there (it's not a couple of songs too long, whatever Neil says!) It's like someone thought that putting just about all the slower, ballad-type songs at the end of the album was a good idea. They're all great songs, but without uptempo songs to separate them they make the album drag out a bit.

And when I say issue, it's only a very minor one - I still consider Woodface one of the best albums in Neil's career

Exactly 

I haven't seen much discussion of I May Be Late. I think its lovely. Wonder why it was discarded?

Also, Burnt Out Tree-is this a Neil or Paul song? On the live version, Neil says they're bringing Paul down front for it. And why is it so short-both versions about a minute and a half. Is that all it ever was? 

Really like Creek Song. Could anyone PM me a version of one that doesn't include Left Hand?

 

stuartjb posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I think you've nailed the issue with Woodface there (it's not a couple of songs too long, whatever Neil says!) It's like someone thought that putting just about all the slower, ballad-type songs at the end of the album was a good idea. They're all great songs, but without uptempo songs to separate them they make the album drag out a bit.

And when I say issue, it's only a very minor one - I still consider Woodface one of the best albums in Neil's career

Exactly 

Definitely one of the best in Neils career!

Nothing Wrong With You posted:

I think Anyone Can Tell is a great track and should've made the album.  I dropped it into the album on tape back in the day so for me, it's always been a part of Woodface.

Yep, I've never understood how that song missed the album. It's my second-favourite Crowdies track, behind Recurring Dream.

An entire third of my top fifteen tracks are from Afterglow, so apparently my favourites were just cursed.

Steve Shealy posted:

 

Really like Creek Song. Could anyone PM me a version of one that doesn't include Left Hand?

 

Likewise. I have a Mullanes live version of Creek Song but the audio quality isn't great (and it's Paul singing). I actually like both songs but together it's a bit jarring.

Steve Shealy posted:

I haven't seen much discussion of I May Be Late. I think its lovely. Wonder why it was discarded?

Also, Burnt Out Tree-is this a Neil or Paul song? On the live version, Neil says they're bringing Paul down front for it. And why is it so short-both versions about a minute and a half. Is that all it ever was? 

Really like Creek Song. Could anyone PM me a version of one that doesn't include Left Hand?

 

I'd be happy to chime in on I May Be Late. I think it's a highlight of the reissues. That chorus is fabulously catchy. It's a shame that CH never went back to it for another go. It seems odd that they had so many goes at creating somewhere for the Left Hand chorus to live but abandoned several other equally, if not more promising, ideas. I guess things just move on sometimes.

Regardless, I think it's a cracking song.

Paul H posted:
Steve Shealy posted:

I haven't seen much discussion of I May Be Late. I think its lovely. Wonder why it was discarded?

Also, Burnt Out Tree-is this a Neil or Paul song? On the live version, Neil says they're bringing Paul down front for it. And why is it so short-both versions about a minute and a half. Is that all it ever was? 

Really like Creek Song. Could anyone PM me a version of one that doesn't include Left Hand?

 

I'd be happy to chime in on I May Be Late. I think it's a highlight of the reissues. That chorus is fabulously catchy. It's a shame that CH never went back to it for another go. It seems odd that they had so many goes at creating somewhere for the Left Hand chorus to live but abandoned several other equally, if not more promising, ideas. I guess things just move on sometimes.

Regardless, I think it's a cracking song.

There really are several albums worth of quality songs that they could go back to. Lots on these reissues, and still many (Walk Tall, Franks Dark Past, etc.) that were left off again.

I'd love to have more info about many of these tracks. Were they improvisations or fully formed songs? Take Frank's Dark Past: beyond "what on earth was that all about?", I'm interested to know if it was a fully formed song was it ever rehearsed or demoed? Likewise for Walk Tall and Tail of a Comet. Apart from appearing to be pretty fully formed, the band seem to know them. The same can be said for Same Language as Me and Burnt Out Tree (a track Peter Green can't have known too much about because it was left untitled on the fan club CD from which it was taken (unless, of course, PG wanted it to be a surprise).

Paul H posted:

I'd love to have more info about many of these tracks. Were they improvisations or fully formed songs? Take Frank's Dark Past: beyond "what on earth was that all about?", I'm interested to know if it was a fully formed song was it ever rehearsed or demoed? Likewise for Walk Tall and Tail of a Comet. Apart from appearing to be pretty fully formed, the band seem to know them. The same can be said for Same Language as Me and Burnt Out Tree (a track Peter Green can't have known too much about because it was left untitled on the fan club CD from which it was taken (unless, of course, PG wanted it to be a surprise).

I second this. I've asked what the heck Frank is about and got no answer, any Aussies want to clue us in? Some of them seem to at least be rehearsed, although in Walk Tall, and Pieces of Change, Neil calls out chords to the rest of the band. I wonder if perhaps they are "road test" songs that got dropped, like so many from Intriguer.

Burnt Out Tree does have both a live and a studio demo, on the debut and Temple bonus discs.

I think I do recall Jeremy saying he didn't find any studio recording of Frank, sadly.

Paul H posted:

Re: Burnt Out Tree. Yes, there's a demo. But presumably the band must have actually rehearsed it rather than just heard it.

I don't have my copy with me; was this a Neil home demo or a studio demo? I think at least some of the studio demos are the full band. Do you know if this is a Neil song, or Paul? Wondering why he calls Paul down front for the live version.

Hawk57 posted:

I think you've nailed the issue with Woodface there (it's not a couple of songs too long, whatever Neil says!) It's like someone thought that putting just about all the slower, ballad-type songs at the end of the album was a good idea. They're all great songs, but without uptempo songs to separate them they make the album drag out a bit.

I agree. That's why I dare you to try out this running order the next time you slip in the Woodface CD:

2,6,3,9,7,8,1,5,11,4,12,10,13,14

This is from "The Art of the Sequence" thread, listing harmonically compatible songs next to each other. As I had noted back then, even "Chocky Cake" does not sound out of place now.

Dorthonion posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I think you've nailed the issue with Woodface there (it's not a couple of songs too long, whatever Neil says!) It's like someone thought that putting just about all the slower, ballad-type songs at the end of the album was a good idea. They're all great songs, but without uptempo songs to separate them they make the album drag out a bit.

I agree. That's why I dare you to try out this running order the next time you slip in the Woodface CD:

2,6,3,9,7,8,1,5,11,4,12,10,13,14

This is from "The Art of the Sequence" thread, listing harmonically compatible songs next to each other. As I had noted back then, even "Chocky Cake" does not sound out of place now.

I agree wholeheartedly that "It's Only Natural" would be a great opener, I love moving "Whispers and Moans" closer to the front (but it would be great anywhere), and I can dig "Chocolate Cake" as the side 1 closer. My problem with this sequence is that it makes the end of side 2 even slower by shoehorning "All I Ask" after "Italian Plastic." I also have a hard time breaking up "Tall Trees" and "Weather With You." Those songs together make each other better.

I just put together my own attempt. I'll listen today and see if it needs tweaking.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Four Seasons in One Day
  3. Fall at Your Feet
  4. Whispers and Moans
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. Fame Is
  13. All I Ask
  14. How Will You Go

I originally had "All I Ask" as side 1's closer, but I think "She Goes On" works better there. It'd be tough to lose the 1-2 punch that ends the original album, though. Either way, I definitely think "Fame Is" is the jolt of energy that needs to be moved further back in the play order.

Edit: Glancing at it again, I may flip "Fame Is" and "All I Ask."

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

Hey guys, first post on these forums. Only just got my boxset in yesterday and needed somewhere to post about it.

 

I'm digging all these alternate tracklists in this thread, re-sequencing albums is one of my favourite hobbies, I'll make sure to listen to all these at some point. I've always wanted to see if Time Immemorial could slide back in, and now that we have Fields are Full of Your Kind I really want to make a tracklist with those two in. I actually caved and downloaded the Woodface deluxe tracks a few weeks ago (that month delay was killing me) so I'm more familiar with this one than any of the others so far. Burnt Out Tree and Creek Song are fantastic. I never knew She Goes On was written for a funeral... that song always made me weepy but I think it's just graduated to a full-on bawler, we'll see.

Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Tall Trees I could do without, but Fame Is is an absolute banger. One of the strongest vocal melodies on the album and Tim absolutely rips it apart on the backing vocals. Definitely a necessary shot of adrenaline for the album imo

 

On another note, is there such thing as a studio version of Whispers and Moans that doesn't have that frustrating fade-out? It would've been my favourite Crowded House song if they hadn't cut off what is possibly the best verse Neil ever wrote, it pains me so much hearing the Woodface version. Anything like that exist?

Aotearoa posted:
Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...

slowpogo posted:
Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...
 

Not to mention that they recorded it absolutely pre-woodfaced, so it was never going to be a polished pop song. I've always quite enjoyed it, the album ends perfectly with How Will You Go and then that perfection is dashed to pieces by I'm Still Here. The self-deprecation was (and still is) a key part of CH's humour.

slowpogo posted:
Aotearoa posted:
Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...

Maybe i was a tad harsh in saying it was a mess,its just i heard the live version of I'm still here and it was more constructed.

 

lavar78 posted:

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

far superior running order . Superb.

stuartjb posted:
lavar78 posted:

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

far superior running order . Superb.

Thanks, Stu!

Since I never had any of the albums on vinyl, Santa gave me the entire LP reissue for Christmas  

I have a question though...my Woodface LP has a plain white sleeve. All of the others have proper sleeves with artwork, lyrics, etc, but not Woodface. Seems strange, given that the CD has an insert. Is it supposed to be like that or did I get a factory glitch?

Question for Jaffa. What was recorded at Murchison St? Aside from the demos released

Weather With You

Four Seasons In One Day

Chocolate Cake

There Goes God

How Will You Go

It's Only Natural

Prodigal Son

Catherine Wheels

In Love With It All

Strangeness and Charm

Italian Plastic

Sound of Truth

All I Ask

Cemetery In The Rain

Throw Your Arms.Around Me (I think)

Was there anything else? Was a demo of Tall Trees recorded?

Cheers in advance

 

The Sound Of Truth/Don't Rely On isn't on the Murchison St demo tapes, nor is Throw Your Arms Around Me. They were recorded at Periscope.

A demo of Tall Trees was recorded at Murchison St but with a drum machine. I didn't think it matched the quality of the other tracks. Might be released one day, along with others that were left off for various reasons.

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