Woodface Deluxe Reissue discussion

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

Hey guys, first post on these forums. Only just got my boxset in yesterday and needed somewhere to post about it.

 

I'm digging all these alternate tracklists in this thread, re-sequencing albums is one of my favourite hobbies, I'll make sure to listen to all these at some point. I've always wanted to see if Time Immemorial could slide back in, and now that we have Fields are Full of Your Kind I really want to make a tracklist with those two in. I actually caved and downloaded the Woodface deluxe tracks a few weeks ago (that month delay was killing me) so I'm more familiar with this one than any of the others so far. Burnt Out Tree and Creek Song are fantastic. I never knew She Goes On was written for a funeral... that song always made me weepy but I think it's just graduated to a full-on bawler, we'll see.

Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Tall Trees I could do without, but Fame Is is an absolute banger. One of the strongest vocal melodies on the album and Tim absolutely rips it apart on the backing vocals. Definitely a necessary shot of adrenaline for the album imo

 

On another note, is there such thing as a studio version of Whispers and Moans that doesn't have that frustrating fade-out? It would've been my favourite Crowded House song if they hadn't cut off what is possibly the best verse Neil ever wrote, it pains me so much hearing the Woodface version. Anything like that exist?

Aotearoa posted:
Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...

slowpogo posted:
Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...
 

Not to mention that they recorded it absolutely pre-woodfaced, so it was never going to be a polished pop song. I've always quite enjoyed it, the album ends perfectly with How Will You Go and then that perfection is dashed to pieces by I'm Still Here. The self-deprecation was (and still is) a key part of CH's humour.

slowpogo posted:
Aotearoa posted:
Axver posted:

"Fame Is" and "Tall Trees" are two of the best tracks on Woodface and grossly underrated.

But then I'd drop "It's Only Natural", "All I Ask", "Italian Plastic", and maaaybe "As Sure As I Am" so probably don't take me too seriously.

I totally agree Fame is and Tall Trees are my favourite tracks on Woodface too and i too would drop those 3 also.I felt let down by I'm still here-bit of a mess that one.

Sorry but you do realize I'm Still Here was just the guys screwing around and having a loose jam in the studio, right? Seems weird to complain that it's a "mess" when that was supposed to be the fun of it...

Maybe i was a tad harsh in saying it was a mess,its just i heard the live version of I'm still here and it was more constructed.

 

lavar78 posted:

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

far superior running order . Superb.

stuartjb posted:
lavar78 posted:

Here's my preferred sequence. There's just one minor tweak. I followed the Together Alone example at the beginning; the first three songs get progressively better with the third being the album's best track. The quiet intro to "Four Seasons" allows the album to reset coming off the high of the "Whispers" outro. The three novelty songs work well together to start the second side IMO. TGG is flexible enough to open side 2 or pick up from SGO and I think "Italian Plastic" is an excellent lead in to "Chocolate Cake." Then ASAIA starts the cool-down phase. The last three songs fit well together and "Fame Is" is a perfect flash (of forked lightning?) before the excellent closer HWYG.

  1. It's Only Natural
  2. Fall at Your Feet
  3. Whispers and Moans
  4. Four Seasons in One Day
  5. Tall Trees
  6. Weather With You
  7. She Goes On
  8. There Goes God
  9. Italian Plastic
  10. Chocolate Cake
  11. As Sure As I Am
  12. All I Ask
  13. Fame Is
  14. How Will You Go

far superior running order . Superb.

Thanks, Stu!

Since I never had any of the albums on vinyl, Santa gave me the entire LP reissue for Christmas  

I have a question though...my Woodface LP has a plain white sleeve. All of the others have proper sleeves with artwork, lyrics, etc, but not Woodface. Seems strange, given that the CD has an insert. Is it supposed to be like that or did I get a factory glitch?

Question for Jaffa. What was recorded at Murchison St? Aside from the demos released

Weather With You

Four Seasons In One Day

Chocolate Cake

There Goes God

How Will You Go

It's Only Natural

Prodigal Son

Catherine Wheels

In Love With It All

Strangeness and Charm

Italian Plastic

Sound of Truth

All I Ask

Cemetery In The Rain

Throw Your Arms.Around Me (I think)

Was there anything else? Was a demo of Tall Trees recorded?

Cheers in advance

 

The Sound Of Truth/Don't Rely On isn't on the Murchison St demo tapes, nor is Throw Your Arms Around Me. They were recorded at Periscope.

A demo of Tall Trees was recorded at Murchison St but with a drum machine. I didn't think it matched the quality of the other tracks. Might be released one day, along with others that were left off for various reasons.

Paul H posted:

It's a real shame that Prodigal Son and In Love With it All have been abandoned because the former was never released by either CH or Tim, and the latter is now considered part of Tim's catalogue. I adore both.

Agreed as i have always wished they had released Prodigal Son either as CH or FB. When i saw the fb in Plymouth 2004 i met Tim and he asked me what song would i like to hear.I said "Prodigal Son" which he replied "too obscure".

Strangeness and charm would have been interesting i feel if done by ch or fb.

 

Paul H posted:

It's a real shame that Prodigal Son and In Love With it All have been abandoned because the former was never released by either CH or Tim, and the latter is now considered part of Tim's catalogue. I adore both.

"In Love With It All" is definitely my favorite "Tim song." 

this is something of a confessional --- since the release of the original woodface, i have religiously skipped all i ask ... i've always considered it misplaced, an orphan, a song i never identified with, a song that tim wrote so tim got it on the album  -- im still not a fan of the woodface version ... just my humble opinion.

HOWEVER ... as i've spent time getting to know the deluxe pack, im totally surprised by what a beautiful simple song all i ask is, and how much better it sounds with just accoustic guitar and not the awful sappy strings that are on woodface.

really stands out as one of the surprises of the woodface demo sessions (given we've heard most of them before) ... but all i ask in this form was new to me and a real pleasant surprise ... and a reminder of how a nice simple song that was right can be overproduced and overthought and turned into something that really doesn't work. 

 

 

silent stream posted:

and a reminder of how a nice simple song that was right can be overproduced and overthought and turned into something that really doesn't work.  

I think I need to start a "Sappy Strings" Support Club. I adore "All I Ask" and I think the strings are an integral part of what makes it special (ditto "The Long and Winding Road" where I truly think the strings are the best part of the song). Ah well, different strokes and all... I'm thrilled you're enjoying the song at any rate!

I also like the strings on All I Ask, and for that matter also on You're the One to Make Me Cry. I appreciate them from an arranger's craft standpoint...it's continuing the tradition of Nelson Riddle's string arrangements with the old crooners like Sinatra. In fact, I forget who it is but the guy who arranged the strings for All I Ask, who was very old at the time, was a very famous arranger and had worked on lots of classic old records.

I also don't quite get the "sappy" label because there's a fair amount of jazz-like dissonance in that arrangement, which keeps it way more interesting than it might have been.

I totally started out where Silent Stream was. I disliked both "All I Ask" and criticized the strings as sappy. That lasted for maybe 10 years. Then my tastes shifted as I became a more generous listener. These days I'm with Lavar78 and Slowpogo. I think the song is great and the strings are a critical element in the arrangement.

Hmm. It's an interesting one for me as I can't find anything wrong with All I Ask, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I don't object to the strings (and I do generally like sappy strings, such as on You Are the One to Make Me Cry) but neither the demo nor the final version sound all that good to me.

It may be that I just find the melody uninspiring, in which case no amount of production would change that for me. That being said, it's a good song to half tune out and just let it provide a relaxing bit of ambience (especially with the strings )

I think my indifference to All I Ask stems from it lyrics, which IMHO are pretty vacuous.

If you compare its  lyrics to Into temptation or Your the one to make me cry, they seem to lack both effort and insight. With this lack of  substance, the tune, production and string arrangement just don't hold water.  For me it's a skip track, no debate.

I'm a Neil fan first and foremost, but this song was my first introduction to Tim's more direct style. I love the lyrics for their earnest simplicity. Its plea is so universal that I've often wondered what in particular inspired him to write it. Childhood? Adulthood? Relationships? Being an artist? Feeling pigeonholed? A general desire to explore? Independence? Tennis?

Hi all, I hope this isn't considered a wasted post... I have not been active on the forums for a long time and I had missed the news about these releases and I just stumbled across the Woodface and first album reissues at a shop today.   I'm listening to the second disk for the first time right now. 

Great thread and I'm going to try those alternate listening orders for Woodface posted earlier.

"It's only natural..." (playing now) 

 

Chris Camfield posted:

Hi all, I hope this isn't considered a wasted post... I have not been active on the forums for a long time and I had missed the news about these releases and I just stumbled across the Woodface and first album reissues at a shop today.   I'm listening to the second disk for the first time right now. 

Great thread and I'm going to try those alternate listening orders for Woodface posted earlier.

"It's only natural..." (playing now) 

 

Hope you are able to get all the deluxe reissues; I was in heaven for months after they came out! SOOOO much great bonus material!

Steve Shealy posted:

Hope you are able to get all the deluxe reissues; I was in heaven for months after they came out! SOOOO much great bonus material!

Thanks Steve!  They did in fact have the first album deluxe reissue so... I might have to go back next week   I wouldn't be surprised if they could order in the others too. 

Always been a fan of All I Ask. I've always considered it a stand out track with a great string arrangement. I can totally understand why it may not be to everyone's taste. It's very different to everything else on the album and is sung by Tim rather than dual harmony like the other co-written tracks. It's a stand out vocal  too,  one  of the best post split enz imo. There is a great live solo tim version from Jools Holland iirc, just Tim and piano. Beautiful version.

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