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I am sad to hear Phil Judd on Facebook complaining about women [ie. his ex] seducing / using him for his 'seed' & then more or less flicking him off afterwards.

The offending comment was quickly removed as it contained a rude word, but my response [& please share yours too] is to roll my eyes & think:

- While that's right about SOME women who want to take something from a famous or well-known person for their own selfish reasons or ego boost, it goes both ways. There are 1000's of women who can attest to being used by a famous guy for his own ends. Just read about Elvis, Brando, Robbie Williams, etc. They knew how to turn on the charm & lure a woman into a night [or 5 minutes] of 'passion', then push them off the bed, & roll them out the door in the morning (some literally!). As coolly as taking out the garbage.

No one is truly innocent.

After all, hasn't he been a musician long enough to know the pitfalls of his position? Sycophants come in all shapes and sizes. He CHOSE her and yet he wants a refund.

Sadly, life doesn't work like that.
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Well I think it's a bit more complicated than asking for a and frankly I don't think he wants one....not for his son Pete, who's the apple of his eye....and the love of his life.

I will add though, that his comments on FB were prompted by his disillusionment with the rather strange way his relationship/marriage ended....and the timing and circumstances involved.

After all, if you had been pursued by a young woman who went out of her way to locate you (writing provocative fan letters and such) and desirous of meeting you, whilst you were feeling isolated and depressed, living alone, in obscurity & recovering from the divorce you just had (due to catching your wife out having an affair with another man) and pondering your life, feeling disillusioned, unloved, and lonely, wouldn't you be intrigued enough to agree to a meeting?
And then to your surprise, when after a few visits and meetings with this woman (26 years your junior) you found yourself tempted and allowed yourself to be seduced and start to 'feel again' (against all your instincts and common sense that were telling you to nip this in the bud, due to the age difference) which you never thought would happen.

This rejuvenated his damaged ego and instilled in him a sense of self worth at a time he was feeling like an old 'has been'.
When this young woman fell pregnant, after a short space of time, and decided to have his child, Phil felt impelled to pack up & sell his residence, buying a house closer to her chosen location (near her family and friends).
Then to support the situation & pursue this relationship (that happened 'out of the blue' and seemed like a godsend) he worked his butt off for the money, in an area that he didn't particularly enjoy (ie TV composing for shows like Good Guys Bad Guys & Stingers) He commuted an hour there and back every day, 7 days a week at times,working extremely long hours to make sure his partner and child was looked after and loved and catered for.

Sacrificing his artistic pursuits in order to have the family life he always craved, ( and feeling that for once in his life, he'd made the right emotional choice and decision and had a partner he could trust, forge a life and grow old with) was worth it all.

After being together for a mere 4 yrs, having had established a home and feeling secure in his relationship (and having a beautiful son of approx 2 1/2 yrs old) Phil decided to make things formal and get married (for the 3rd time) and to bring his elderly parents over from NZ.
Whilst in NZ he experienced a major blow and insult from Tim Finn. On Eddie's suggestion and encouragement, he came along with Eddie Raynor to the soundcheck/rehearsal for the 30yr Split Enz reunion, unannounced, feeling happy and on top of the world with news of his imminent wedding.
Well that was a disaster leaving Phil feeling dejected. Although Neil Finn was excited at his presence and welcoming, as well as other members of the Enz present, Tim was mealy mouthed and not enthused about his presence.
Everyone but Tim wanted Phil to join in on stage, but due to Phil's sensitivity of the adverse feelings he experienced from Tim, he left feeling sad.
It put a dampener on his trip.
On his arrival back,Phil and Olivia were married at their home on June 8 2002.
A few months later Olivia filed for divorce.
The rest is history.

Under these circumstances any human being would be bitter and disillusioned when their world is turned upside down.

In respect to your statement Fluidity, there are two sides to every story and one shouldn't assume that Phil's attitude is there without good reason.
His views on women are very coloured by his personal experiences of betrayal and heartache.

Being a woman (and a feminist to boot), I find that one must also take into account the psychological perspective of another's viewpoint and how their opinions and attitudes have been formed.

You'll have to read the

Cheers for now
Jezno Wink
Its one of them Phil Judd stories again. I have never heard an artist given so maby BS to so many people. The Phil forum is full of this stuff. Guess he sees himself as more of a professional victim than an artist. We will never know what really happened between Phil and Tim or Phil and his wife. I'm not interested either! Everybody has something to deal with in his life. And has to solve these problems with some dignity.
I don't believe Phils take on events. There are piles of stories on the forum about lies told by Phil and people being harassed by him on the web or in real life.

And this is just another one of those weird stories.

Still hope he gets himself together and starts doing things in right place. Talk about music on the web; discuss problems with the people themselves and not on the web. Like Steve Jobs would say "its that easy"
Such interesting replies - as varied as the fans of Phil are.

Yes it’s clear Phil’s had hard times & been hurt, like we all do. Like him, we’re entitled to feel sad and disappointed about it & grieve the loss. But perhaps in private - isn’t ‘less said = best served’ where kids & divorce are concerned?

Would a parent encourage contact with someone writing songs about her as a Vixen always Bitchin; calling her such names & moaning about her in public, is not the most effective way to break down barriers I can think of!

Yes she may have been manipulating to get close to him, as are many fans, but he would have played his part too. He admits enjoying the attention and went with it.

But now it’s over, it’s about the kid not the ex. What’s good for Pete is to see dad put his emotions aside, be calm and polite, making small steps to acknowledge errors, & show respect to the woman who has legally every right to limit or cut off contact.

In that same short message, he commented on not seeing his daughter or grandkid. Well, if he feels upset about anything like that, you go tell a friend or chat anonymously, but don’t broadcast every emotion publicly - digging a pit to fall in, that is!
Umm Jezno are you sure your talking about the Enz's 30th anniversary? From memory the only 2002 Enz appearance was the Paul Holmes show. And Judd was asked but didn't come over because he was producing a musical in aussie. From memory The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe.

I recall reading something similar to what your referring to tho. A NZ concert the Finn's did where Phil just turned up backstage and no-one had told Tim Phil was coming.
That was the Finn Hooley at the St James. Phil and I attended the soundcheck together. He was nervous about meeting Tim and didn't know how it work out. Turns out it was the wrong time and place to surprise Tim after eight years of estrangement. Too much to handle right then.

Neil was keen to have Phil join them on stage for Sweet Dreams but Phil wasn't able to because of a family commitment that night - and I think he would have been too nervous to anyway. Not necessarily because of Tim, but because he'd been off the stage for so long.
Well Phil vs Tim, Tim vs Phil, it's possible.. I don't know the real score about that, but seems like it's:

Phil vs his parents. Phil vs teachers. Phil vs the church. Phil vs every friend he ever had. Phil vs employers. Phil vs all ex band mates. Phil vs his fans. Phil vs ex-wives & girlfriends. Phil vs God. Phil vs the music industry. Phil vs the critics. Phil vs his local community. Phil vs the law. Phil vs Australia, vs NZ, and now vs his kid/s...

This overall impression comes from events he's discussed freely & plainly, while always stating it's the other way round - the world against him. It sounds unbelievable.
I won't be the first or the last that it's such a shame that all this continues to deplete what was/is such a wonderful artistic legacy. Mental illness and addiction issues are fun for no one. Sometimes it's better not to know the failings of your heroes and friends. The internet puts it all on the table like never before. Shame Frowner
Originally posted by Bandie:Mental illness and addiction issues are fun for no one. Sometimes it's better not to know the failings of your heroes and friends. The internet puts it all on the table like never before. Shame Frowner

Bandie I would respectfully make two points.

1. There are lots of talented but afflicted people with mental illnesses who do simply not do some of the things Judd has done. All the nasty smart ass comments Judd makes about the Finn's (particularly Tim) and others he knows what hes saying and doing when he does it. The sick stalking of young girls and posing as a 17 year old on facebook. Thats the behaviour of a predator. And one whom to this day maintains hes done nothing wrong. Yeah ok, from a musical point of view Judd's a very talented guy. His and Tim's early Enz albums, The Swingers - Counting The Beat and even his come back cd Novelty Act are awesome. But lets not make a special case for him and say that because he used to be a respected rock star that we can just blame things he knowingly did on his mental illness. To do so only creates a negative misconception of people who do have one, but don't behave in such a way.

2. The internet can only report your failings if you continually **** up and give it ammo. Judd's a grown up. He's made choices and said things which he quite simply shouldn't done and said. Not the nets fault his.

But of course I have no doubt that what minimal fans judd has left will continue to hear and see only what they want to. And most will illogically make everything Phil does Gryphon or Tim finn or someone elses fault.

Just ask yourself this. Over the years lots of old Enz men who weren't in the latter day or final line-ups have returned to the fold. Both Chunn's and Crowther have hopped on stage for the odd play. Miles played with Ed and Tim on "The Conversation". Phil seems to be the only one who thrives on conflict. And we can all see ho thats worked for him.

Well whatever prompted this response, the stint in prison was not for stalking (community service was deemed appropriate for that), it was for violating an intervention order while on good behaviour because he was missing his son.

Anyway, no energy from me for discussing the why and wherefore of PJ, I just don't see the point of pulling up an old thread to post misinformation.

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