Visconti version

Actually, I believe it was determined, some years ago, that the leaked Visconti version are pretty close to the finish product. I believe the leak was originally from the "final mixes" and Visconti himself has said that his version of the album was finished. So, what we are listening to is the intended final product. Further proof is in the Visconti versions that have been officially released - they're identical to the versions on the leak.

I agree that some of the b-sides are stronger than some album tracks, but I can come up with a decent argument in my head for the decision to drop each of them. "Land Torments the Sea" is a lovely song but a bit too formulaic and sound doesn't suit the album. "Sunset Swim" makes a great last track, but the album already has a great last track in "Gentle Hum". Also, "Sunset Swim" is a neat idea but I don't think the execution did justice to the two part vocals on the chorus. "Tell Me C'mon" is a hard one, because it's such a fun song, but it does feel a bit forced and amateurish compared to the similar uptempo gem "Anything Can Happen".

I wonder if Everyone is Here would be considered a career high point for the Finns? Obviously Woodface was one, but I don't think any new releases by either brother moved as many units or got as much attention as EIH did between 1997 and 2006.
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
- was the tracklisting for the finished Visconti product the same as for the Froom release?

What do you reckon to Everyday Alright, Painaporo?


"Everyday Alright" and "Way Back Down" are two songs that I just don't particularly care for so it's no mystery to me - they just had better songs for the album!

I don't think they ever got around to sequencing the Visconti album. For all I know that's what they were working on when they asked Froom for his input. I kinda like to imagine that interaction. Neil takes the record to Froom asking how he thinks it should be sequenced and Froom says, "well, the first thing we should do is replace all this bad music with music that is actually good."

It is a shame about the loud mastering but I try not to let it spoil what I think is an otherwise magnificent album. I've been a fan of Matt Chamberlain's drumming ever since Fiona Apple. He added a great sense of momentum to the songs!
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
I think Visconti's versions of Nothing wrong with you, Homesick and All the colours are a lot better than the Froom versions. If I had been compiling the album I would have taken out A life between us and All the Colours and replaced them with these two magnificent b-sides.


No no no! Please don't do that. A Life Between Us is my favourite song of the whole bunch (I'm a sucker for a waltz).

But I agree that Sunset Swim and Land Torments the Sea should have been on the album.
quote:
I think Visconti's versions of Nothing wrong with you, Homesick and All the colours are a lot better than the Froom versions


I've only just found the Visconti version and listened to it for the first time, and my initial thoughts are very similar to Kittybear's. I think why I prefer the Visconti version of these 3 tracks is that the softer, quieter arrangement suits them better, especially in the verse of Homesick and the chorus of Nothing Wrong With You.

Overall I prefer the Froom version, but having the Visconti version in addition now feels like I've just acquired some new Finn material, which has got to be a good thing.

Well, needless to say, I'm arriving a few years late for this party! I only just learned of these Visconti versions, are they still available somewhere? I'm interested because I have very little enthusiasm for this album at all, I'm surprised to hear you guys speak so highly of it, to be honest. Maybe a different take would sell it to me.

I know I will destroy my credibility here when I say that All God's Children is one of the few tracks that has replay value for me! And that's because it harks to the previous Finn album, which I feel is vastly superior to the polished-into-oblivion EIH. FINN was more dangerous and experimental and I liked that. EIH was.....too safe for my liking.

I feel the same way about the corresponding tours which accompanied each album. The FINN tour is a highlight in all the shows I've ever been to; EIH was a pretty plain vanilla performance, IMO. I thought Missy Higgin's support was more memorable in those shows.

So anyway, Visconti mixes - still available somewhere?

You're not the only one who's late - I only heard these about a month ago. You can find the Visconti versions over on Jane music.

I'm not sure how I feel about All God's Children, but the Visconti versions are certainly less polished than Froom's finished takes...  that being said, the use of session musicians means that it hasn't quite got the lo-fi, intimate feel of Finn (which I consider a much better album than EIH). 

All in all, I wouldn't get your hopes up - the visconti album couldn't have been released as it's sort of awkwardly sitting on the fence between being lo fi and a polished release. As it happened the Finns went for polish, but had they gone the other way then the visconti version shows how much potential this album had, unfortunately never realised.

Don't let me get you down, though. You may find the Visconti versions brilliant! I have to admit that some of the tracks are much better. Really, my mine gripe with them is Ross Burge's drumming - he sounds like he was just about asleep through the whole sessions.

Sorry for such a long-winded response, I just jumped at an opportunity to put in my two cent's worth on what is at least a very interesting collection of songs.

Well, Slickstu, started to wright some personal thoughts on this subject, but dont want to spoil anything. Suggest that you first take a listen of that Viscontis versions, than we can discuss it here. Since All Gods Children is your best song from that album, anything is possible

Well I've done a bit of a cursory side by side comparison of these two versions and I can't say I'm greatly impressed by either. I don't think the Visconti version sells the album any better but nor do I think it was worth starting from scratch again. It certainly suffers for not having All God's Children on it!

I mean Froom does some better, Visconti does others better (allowing for the lower audio quality of the latter, of course) but overall, this remains the least impressive Finn album for me.

I think the biggest disappointment for me is Homesick. Man, I wish Froom had done a Now We're Getting Somewhere Frankenstein's monster job on that song - the verses are so promising but the chorus is such a let-down!

Probably the second best song on the album for me is Part Of Me, Part Of You (is that my credibility gone again? ) but it's practically the same on each so, whatevs.

Ok, now I can tell some things without spoiling a party? Well, firstly and directly I think Visconti versions are embaresment for such big name as Visconti! For few years I thought that Frooms production is too mechanical, too forced and overproduced untill I heard Viscontis. Good God! I think we cant even call that first league album. I am pretty sure that record company would reject to publish that album (second time in Neils career!). Some songs are just terrible arranged and produced, few are good, and only one sounds better to me than Frooms. First of all Wont Give In - in Frooms hands this is one of the best songs in Neils career, in Viscontis hands this song sounds just awfull, rejected b side song to be forgotten in the dust.  Some of his production solutions seems so cheap and stuck in the 70 s that is unbelieveble - not only Wont give in, but also Part of me, The land torments, All the colours, and maybe above all A life beetwen which sounds fantastic in Frooms hands. And how on earth Visconti didnt remember to add drums in Disambodied voices??? Froom again nailed it only with that addition, everything else was Viscontis in this song, but without drums its just not it. Than also too much violins in Viscontis arrangments, so unneccesery. Only song which sounds better to me in Viscontis hands is Homesick, which was not love on the first. But, after a listening remastered version I started to like that almost country sound which suits much better to the lyrics than Frooms version which is just too forced and unnatural to me. And I like Viscontis addition of whistling in Luckiest Man Alive and also his version of Nothing wrong with (but I like Frooms equaly).

All in all, I think Finns "crying" on Frooms shoulder was one of the smartest moves in their career. Visconti showed that he doesnt know anything about brothers music, most probably didnt hear any of their albums, and his aproach to their music was pretty missed. On the other side, Froom didnt produced best album in his career (neither were brothers, far from it) but he showed once more that he understand them, knows them and have been from first day one of the makers of CH/Finn sound. In his hands, Everyone is here sounds at least like proffesional music piece.

Yeah, see I just don't like the album so I'm unlikely to listen to either version enough to pick up the finer differences as you have done.

I remember getting to the end of my first listen to Froom's album and thinking, "Is that it?" I have faith in Neil's work though so I persisted with it and gave it a good hard go. That's when I twigged on All God's Children and Part Of Me. But even after I got a foot hold on those two tracks, I still struggled to grapple with the rest. I guess the fact you prize Won't Give In so highly, yet I think it's beige as hell is a good indicator of our differing tastes and why you love the album whereas I don't rate it at all.

I doubt I'll give either mix another listen.

I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said. I'll add that I much prefer Tim's vocals on the Visconti version. They are a bit louder than on the final version, so it sounds like the brothers singing together rather than Neil singing and Tim backing him up. Both versions are definitely amongst my least favourite albums of either brothers' careers.

I think EIH is probably the best album Neil and Tim have done that isn't the original CH albums or Enz. I would even rate it higher than the newer CH albums. I love how much energy it has and how catchy the songs are. I agree with Mario that the Visconti version is am embarrassment. It's great fun to listen to such an alternate take on the songs, but there's not a single Visconti version I would rate higher than the Froom versions. Again, I agree with Mario that the versions really demonstrate Froom's incredible understanding of the Finn Brother dynamic and what to give Neil's songs to take them from good to great. 

A really listening experience, if you have the time, is to go back and listen to the three nights they played in Auckland's Tabac bar in May 2003, before they had finished the songs or recorded a note. Then listen to the Visconti versions and then finally the Froom versions. What an insight into the evolution of Neil and Tim's song craft. Maybe that's less interesting now that we have the deluxe CH albums, which give you a similar insight, but it's fun to be able to follow one album through three distinct phases of development.

 

I have to admit that for all my trash talking of EIH, it used to be one of my favourite albums ever. I still consider every song good, and most of them great. Somehow at some point I stopped finding the overall album satisfying, perhaps the overall sound of every song was too similar. I much prefer Finn to EIH, even though on a song-to-song basis I'd prefer the latter. Finn has so much variety that's it's a very satisfying album.

Having said that, I'm currently listening to EIH for the first time since I listened to the Visconti version. All of a sudden, I'm enjoying it almost as much as I used to. I'll listen to the Tabac bar shows and see what they do, then I may have to completely change my stance on EIH

Aotearoa posted:
Sugar Mouse posted:

I'd love to hear these Visconti versions. Does anyone know how I can find the mp3's for these versions?

Jane music

Thanks!  I just checked out Jane Music and it looks great. I have no idea though how to download torrents. How does one convert those to mp3's?

Sugar Mouse posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I use μtorrent, it extracts the mp3 files from the torrent file.

Thanks!  Trying to figure out how to use it and extract the mp3 files.

help is coming....http://www.wondershare.net/ad/video-converter-ultimate/audio-converter.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAnIPDBRC7t5zJs4uQu5UBEiQA7u5Ne8zXWTtP6PxDw4Xk41WNpqMiKt54ktK4g0lUkxpPl1oaAnea8P8HAQ

 

Sugar Mouse posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I use μtorrent, it extracts the mp3 files from the torrent file.

Thanks!  Trying to figure out how to use it and extract the mp3 files.

Not sure you understand how bittorrents work there, Mouse.

When you download a bittorrent, you're really just downloading a link to the MP3s, not the the MP3s themselves - so you can't actually extract the MP3s from the bittorent.

When you click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music, uTorrent will catch the link and use it to download the MP3s for you, prompting you for a download location in the process.

So the steps to get the MP3s are:

1. Install uTorrent.

2. Click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music.

3. uTorrent will open automatically and ask you where you want to download the MP3s to.

4. Click OK and uTorrent will do its stuff.

SlickStu posted:
Sugar Mouse posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I use μtorrent, it extracts the mp3 files from the torrent file.

Thanks!  Trying to figure out how to use it and extract the mp3 files.

Not sure you understand how bittorrents work there, Mouse.

When you download a bittorrent, you're really just downloading a link to the MP3s, not the the MP3s themselves - so you can't actually extract the MP3s from the bittorent.

When you click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music, uTorrent will catch the link and use it to download the MP3s for you, prompting you for a download location in the process.

So the steps to get the MP3s are:

1. Install uTorrent.

2. Click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music.

3. uTorrent will open automatically and ask you where you want to download the MP3s to.

4. Click OK and uTorrent will do its stuff.

Thanks!!!!!  Really appreciate the help.  Was there a different album title that this album was supposed to have when Tony Visconti was at the helm?

Sugar Mouse posted:
SlickStu posted:
Sugar Mouse posted:
Hawk57 posted:

I use μtorrent, it extracts the mp3 files from the torrent file.

Thanks!  Trying to figure out how to use it and extract the mp3 files.

Not sure you understand how bittorrents work there, Mouse.

When you download a bittorrent, you're really just downloading a link to the MP3s, not the the MP3s themselves - so you can't actually extract the MP3s from the bittorent.

When you click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music, uTorrent will catch the link and use it to download the MP3s for you, prompting you for a download location in the process.

So the steps to get the MP3s are:

1. Install uTorrent.

2. Click on the bittorrent link at Jane Music.

3. uTorrent will open automatically and ask you where you want to download the MP3s to.

4. Click OK and uTorrent will do its stuff.

Thanks!!!!!  Really appreciate the help.  Was there a different album title that this album was supposed to have when Tony Visconti was at the helm?

Yes! "Too much violins and bad drumming"

"if you have the time, is to go back and listen to the three nights they played in Auckland's Tabac bar in May 2003"

I looked at Jane's Music for this, but don't see it there. I'd love to hear this. I'm so fascinated with watching how the Finn's songs develop and evolve over time. Can anyone please point me in the right direction to track it down? I would greatly appreciate any help I can get. Thanks.

For those interested in the evolution of the songs, also check out the Neil Finn demos from Roundhead in 2001. Early versions of Part of Me (called My Voice Won't Speak) and Way Back Down. There was also an early demo of Land Torments the Sea that was on the old Nilfun site and the Split Enz reunion at Roundhead in IIRC 2002 has performances of early versions of Part of Me, Land Torments the sea and Edible Flowers.

Camus posted:

For those interested in the evolution of the songs, also check out the Neil Finn demos from Roundhead in 2001. Early versions of Part of Me (called My Voice Won't Speak) and Way Back Down. There was also an early demo of Land Torments the Sea that was on the old Nilfun site and the Split Enz reunion at Roundhead in IIRC 2002 has performances of early versions of Part of Me, Land Torments the sea and Edible Flowers.

I have only heard the Roundhead demos, but I found them fascinating! Part of Me is another in the long list of songs that Neil honed over years to produce a great song from an ordinary beginning. 

Steve Shealy posted:

And how does one "check out" these?

Jane music once again

This have been very interesting and helpful. I nosed around Jane Music awhile back, but didn't really understand the bittorrent thing and gave up. I will download utorrent when I have the time; just took another look at Jane and easily found Voice Won't Speak and Man of the Cloth; can't wait to hear them!

Any more suggestions of rarities that may make the search process easier?

I've been on a Finn kick the last month, so here are my latest thoughts on both versions of Everyone Is Here.

 

First off, the Visconti sessions.  I have no insider knowledge, but suspect that Visconti took a hands off approach to the recording.  This is based on the recordings of the three TABAC shows where all the songs they'd written at that point were performed (no All God's Children) before they started to record the album.  Arrangement wise and feel, these are very similar to the Visconti versions.  Listening to the Visconti sessions, it seems clear that what ended up as the B sides are the strongest tracks.  Tell Me C'mon, Everyday Alright, Sunset Swim and Land Torments the Sea are very well recorded and the arrangements suit the songs.  Sunset Swim is a triumph.  I agree with Painaporo, the rhythm section just doesn't seem to gel with the songs and this is evident in the TABAC recordings too.  Some songs appear to not be finished at this stage either, particularly Part of Me, Part of You and A Life Between Us.  These two songs changed dramatically between demos, TABAC and Froom sessions.  POMPOY started out life as My Voice Won't Speak and while it's a pleasant demo, it doesn't show the full promise of the song.  By the time of the Split Enz reunion webcast the chorus was in place (possibly Tim's contribution?) where in the original what became the bridge was the verse and the verse was the chorus.  There's a recording of a solo show Neil performed during the Froom sessions that shows A Life Between Us was still in flux and is still pretty ordinary.

Anything Can Happen.

Yeah, it's got that bloody awful crunch sample in it and the additional bridge really adds nothing to the song.  Much more dynamic in the Froom version.

Edible Flowers

I prefer the Visconti version.  The best version IMO is the 7 Worlds Collide version.  One of the reasons I prefer the Visconti version is that the original piano lines are intact and the string arrangement is written to compliment these.  In the Froom version the piano arpeggios are replaced with plodding chords that destroy the symbiosis of the string arrangement with the piano.  The string arrangement ends up not really making much sense with the arrangement.

Way Back Down

I prefer the Froom version, the arrangement is tightened, the lovely ambient guitar lines are to the fore and the added keyboards really bring it together.  There's nothing wrong with the Visconti version though, it's still nice.

Won't Give In

Froom version all the way.  He worked magic on this.  The Visconti version is faithful to the TABAC feel of the song and, well, I think it makes a turd out of a great song.  The same thing happened with

All The Colours.  

Froom's version is so far ahead of the Visconti version it's not funny.

Nothing Wrong With You

Now this had radically changed from the TABAC version, which is quite frankly pretty ordinary IMO.  The strings sound much better on the Visconti version, but without that high falsetto harmony on the chorus, the Visconti version sounds limp.  The chorus in the Froom version is such a huge lift to the song.

Luckiest Man Alive

I prefer the Visconti version.  I love the interplay of electric piano and piano.  There is an annoying guitar loop, but I feel the Froom version is way overproduced.  That descending guitar line ruins that version for me.

Homesick

I like both versions.  The Visconti recording is a nice acoustic laid back version with a beautiful string arrangement which gets a bit lost in the Froom version, but that version with it's driving piano and electric guitars is great.

Gentle Hum

Hard to decide, both versions are great.

Diesmbodied Voices

The added drums to add a lot to the Froom version, though the Visconti version is good too (as they are basically exactly the same recording bar a few overdubs).

Land Torments The Sea

Prefer the Visconti version.

Have I missed anything?  

In conclusion, both have their pluses and minuses.  The Visconti albums greatest strengths are what became the B sides.  A Life Between Us and POMPOY are travesties compared to the Froom versions as are Won't Give In and All The Colours.  I have the feeling these four songs are possibly the ones originally slated to be re-recorded by Froom who certainly worked wonders on them.  The biggest problem I have with the Visconti versions are how weak the vocals are.  Visconti's string arrangements are sublime (and always are, just listen to his string arrangements of Sparks' Something For The Girl With Everything and This Town Aint Big Enough For The Both Of Us).  So my belief is that Visconti took a back seat, hands off approach to the album and let the Finns lead the way, when I suspect for quite a few songs they weren't sure how to proceed and probably needed guidance.  

When I first heard the Visconti produced B sides compared to the overcompressed Froom recordings I felt we'd been cheated out of a great album.  It was a shock to hear the rest of the recordings.  While some were great, others were very ordinary and greatly improved on by Froom.  My ultimate EIH uses a mix of Visconti and Froom recordings and includes all the B sides.

The Visconti album is very nice, but IMO pales in comparison to the Mitchell Froom version that became the final release.

It's still a fascinating companion to the released version and has the same beautiful songs, I just think It lacks a little bit of depth and arrangements come across a little one dimensional (not in the 1st Finn brothers album, charming kind of way).

It shouldn't be too hard to find the Visconti version online (Youtube or JaneMusic).

Camus posted:

I've been on a Finn kick the last month, so here are my latest thoughts on both versions of Everyone Is Here.

 

First off, the Visconti sessions.  I have no insider knowledge, but suspect that Visconti took a hands off approach to the recording.  This is based on the recordings of the three TABAC shows where all the songs they'd written at that point were performed (no All God's Children) before they started to record the album.  Arrangement wise and feel, these are very similar to the Visconti versions.  Listening to the Visconti sessions, it seems clear that what ended up as the B sides are the strongest tracks.  Tell Me C'mon, Everyday Alright, Sunset Swim and Land Torments the Sea are very well recorded and the arrangements suit the songs.  Sunset Swim is a triumph.  I agree with Painaporo, the rhythm section just doesn't seem to gel with the songs and this is evident in the TABAC recordings too.  Some songs appear to not be finished at this stage either, particularly Part of Me, Part of You and A Life Between Us.  These two songs changed dramatically between demos, TABAC and Froom sessions.  POMPOY started out life as My Voice Won't Speak and while it's a pleasant demo, it doesn't show the full promise of the song.  By the time of the Split Enz reunion webcast the chorus was in place (possibly Tim's contribution?) where in the original what became the bridge was the verse and the verse was the chorus.  There's a recording of a solo show Neil performed during the Froom sessions that shows A Life Between Us was still in flux and is still pretty ordinary.

Anything Can Happen.

Yeah, it's got that bloody awful crunch sample in it and the additional bridge really adds nothing to the song.  Much more dynamic in the Froom version.

Edible Flowers

I prefer the Visconti version.  The best version IMO is the 7 Worlds Collide version.  One of the reasons I prefer the Visconti version is that the original piano lines are intact and the string arrangement is written to compliment these.  In the Froom version the piano arpeggios are replaced with plodding chords that destroy the symbiosis of the string arrangement with the piano.  The string arrangement ends up not really making much sense with the arrangement.

Way Back Down

I prefer the Froom version, the arrangement is tightened, the lovely ambient guitar lines are to the fore and the added keyboards really bring it together.  There's nothing wrong with the Visconti version though, it's still nice.

Won't Give In

Froom version all the way.  He worked magic on this.  The Visconti version is faithful to the TABAC feel of the song and, well, I think it makes a turd out of a great song.  The same thing happened with

All The Colours.  

Froom's version is so far ahead of the Visconti version it's not funny.

Nothing Wrong With You

Now this had radically changed from the TABAC version, which is quite frankly pretty ordinary IMO.  The strings sound much better on the Visconti version, but without that high falsetto harmony on the chorus, the Visconti version sounds limp.  The chorus in the Froom version is such a huge lift to the song.

Luckiest Man Alive

I prefer the Visconti version.  I love the interplay of electric piano and piano.  There is an annoying guitar loop, but I feel the Froom version is way overproduced.  That descending guitar line ruins that version for me.

Homesick

I like both versions.  The Visconti recording is a nice acoustic laid back version with a beautiful string arrangement which gets a bit lost in the Froom version, but that version with it's driving piano and electric guitars is great.

Gentle Hum

Hard to decide, both versions are great.

Diesmbodied Voices

The added drums to add a lot to the Froom version, though the Visconti version is good too (as they are basically exactly the same recording bar a few overdubs).

Land Torments The Sea

Prefer the Visconti version.

Have I missed anything?  

In conclusion, both have their pluses and minuses.  The Visconti albums greatest strengths are what became the B sides.  A Life Between Us and POMPOY are travesties compared to the Froom versions as are Won't Give In and All The Colours.  I have the feeling these four songs are possibly the ones originally slated to be re-recorded by Froom who certainly worked wonders on them.  The biggest problem I have with the Visconti versions are how weak the vocals are.  Visconti's string arrangements are sublime (and always are, just listen to his string arrangements of Sparks' Something For The Girl With Everything and This Town Aint Big Enough For The Both Of Us).  So my belief is that Visconti took a back seat, hands off approach to the album and let the Finns lead the way, when I suspect for quite a few songs they weren't sure how to proceed and probably needed guidance.  

When I first heard the Visconti produced B sides compared to the overcompressed Froom recordings I felt we'd been cheated out of a great album.  It was a shock to hear the rest of the recordings.  While some were great, others were very ordinary and greatly improved on by Froom.  My ultimate EIH uses a mix of Visconti and Froom recordings and includes all the B sides.

Hey Camus,

Great post. I 've scoured the Jane sit looking for the Finn TABAC shows as well as any Neil (the one you mentioned), Tim, SE (the one you mentioned0 or Finn Brothers leading up to the release of "EIH" and could not find them. I was wondering where you found these recordings. You say Neil recorded an early version of "POMPOY" as a demo titled "My Voice Won't Speak" when all I could find was a demo called "Voice Won't Sing" (which includes the "POMPOY" lyrics) from his October-November 2001 Roundhead Studios sessions with Sebastian Steinberg on bass, Lisa Germano on keyboards and violin, and Sean Sullivan (aka Goldenboy) on guitar. Is this what you were referring to? 

I am like you and absolutely fascinated by the the evolution of the songs and hearing their nature progressions through live, demo and studio performances.

I was wondering if you could PM and me and let me know where you may have found/heard these recordings. 

It would be MUCH appreciated and I'm sure you understand, as a fellow, Finn-head how I might find them essential to my love and understanding  of their process. 

I'd, of course, be happy to share angkor my rather deep collection of rarities and demos, as well.

Thanks so much in advance,

koabac

Add Reply

Likes (0)
    All times London, UK.

    ©1998-Eternity, Frenz.com. All post content is the copyrighted work of the person who wrote it. Please don't copy, reproduce, or publish anything you see written here without the author's permission.
×
×
×
×
×