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Because the song was too long for the credit sequence, I guess. The credits crawl pretty slowly as it is. When making the DVD, Parlophone asked for rare tracks but didn't specify preferred lengths, so I selected those ones. They were tracks we hadn't been able to fit on the planned box set at the time, so it was good to find them a home.

The demos of Instinct and Italian Plastic were co-incidentally exactly the same length as each other, which meant they could offer both as options for the gallery music.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaffaman:
Yes, some of those songs will be on the box set, when it eventually comes out. The project has been on hold for five years... but the hold music's pretty good.


Hi Jaffa!

Any other clues as to what might included (or left off) the long-awaited box set? If you are able to spill any of the beans, that is. Convent Girls? Tail of a Comet?



.
Yes, they'll be on it. I wish I could tell you more but I don't want to spoil some very cool surprises. We found some things I had no idea were recorded and that Neil and Nick had forgotten about. 

The other issue is that between now and the date of release, much of the line up could change. Half of it changed when I joined the project almost seven years ago and waded through goodness knows how many hours of tapes of Neil's. Before that the set was limited to what Capitol could find among their own tapes. And there are still stones unturned, which is exciting.

Right now the box set is a low priority for Neil, who's enjoying creating new music and looking forward rather than backward. But he is still keen on it happening eventually. Believe me, so am I!
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
When it comes to an amazing sounding collection of live Crowded House tracks we have only one - the Recurring Dream bonus disc. I would love to have a second volume in that live collection!


That is if you exclude the Town & Country Club promo, 28 fan club CDs and 60 plus Kufala/ConcertLive double CDs...
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
When it comes to an amazing sounding collection of live Crowded House tracks we have only one - the Recurring Dream bonus disc. I would love to have a second volume in that live collection!


That is if you exclude the Town & Country Club promo, 28 fan club CDs and 60 plus Kufala/ConcertLive double CDs...


There were what, 500 copies made of Town & Country and all the fan club CDs? The Kufala stuff from 2010 sounds great, the 2007 stuff sounds like crap. But we're talking about vintage live recordings from 1986-1996 CH, not CH Mach II.

So, excluding the recent Kufala recordings and FWTTW, all other live material has been extremely limited in its release and NONE of it sounds anywhere near as good as the Recurring Dream Live Album, which is easily the best sounding recording the band has ever released. I don't know what they did to it, but they did it right!
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
NONE of it sounds anywhere near as good as the Recurring Dream Live Album, which is easily the best sounding recording the band has ever released. I don't know what they did to it, but they did it right!


There's actually a note in the Recurring Dream booklet stating that, in fact, 'nothing' was done to the live tracks. They were recorded straight from the mixing board - meaning, what you hear on the live CD is the exact same thing that was being pumped into the sound system at those shows.

But, I think the fanclub CDs were similar - mixing board recordings. Do you think the Recurring Dream live album sounds that much better than the fanclub CDs? I don't hear much difference.
You can do a whole lot to live recordings without overdubbing them - which is what the note in the Recurring Dream booklet is referring too.

I have no doubt that the songs were not overdubbed with additional vocals or guitar parts. However, they have definitely been "mastered" to perfection including EQing, compression, and they were probably mixed too. And yes, the Recurring Dream disc sounds a lot better than the fan club CDs.

If you have access to both the New Castle Jam can club disc and the Recurring Dream bonus disc it's pretty simple to listen to one of the songs that appears on both and hear the difference. Try "New Castle Jam".
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
You can do a whole lot to live recordings without overdubbing them - which is what the note in the Recurring Dream booklet is referring too.

I have no doubt that the songs were not overdubbed with additional vocals or guitar parts. However, they have definitely been "mastered" to perfection including EQing, compression, and they were probably mixed too. And yes, the Recurring Dream disc sounds a lot better than the fan club CDs.

If you have access to both the New Castle Jam can club disc and the Recurring Dream bonus disc it's pretty simple to listen to one of the songs that appears on both and hear the difference. Try "New Castle Jam".
Yeah, Painaporo is correct. Whatever they did to that RD live disc, it's superlative. It just sounds soooooo good...
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
When it comes to an amazing sounding collection of live Crowded House tracks we have only one - the Recurring Dream bonus disc. I would love to have a second volume in that live collection!


That is if you exclude the Town & Country Club promo, 28 fan club CDs and 60 plus Kufala/ConcertLive double CDs...


There were what, 500 copies made of Town & Country and all the fan club CDs? The Kufala stuff from 2010 sounds great, the 2007 stuff sounds like crap. But we're talking about vintage live recordings from 1986-1996 CH, not CH Mach II.

So, excluding the recent Kufala recordings and FWTTW, all other live material has been extremely limited in its release and NONE of it sounds anywhere near as good as the Recurring Dream Live Album, which is easily the best sounding recording the band has ever released. I don't know what they did to it, but they did it right!


True but, having conscientiously collected all this stuff over the years, I have little appetite for yet more material (although anything that predates Woodface would be welcome). I'd particularly like an official release of the MTV Unplugged show. Short but sweet!

I appreciate that not everyone has this stuff so I'm being a little selfish but even so, I do think CH have been well represented live.

Maybe a good idea would be to create a double live album by cherry picking the best of the fan club CDs. I'd be happy to curate that if Neil wants to give me a call!
quote:
OPB Paul H:

Maybe a good idea would be to create a double live album by cherry picking the best of the fan club CDs.


Yes! It would be fantastic for those pour Souls who converted and saw the Light of Pure Music too late!

Even if I know for certain there are angels around, taking care of them Smiler

-
quote:
Originally posted by horse 2 water ski-ing:
Low priority for Neil = High priority for us lot! To be fair these can be put out anytime.... and sadly because of that I can see this taking another five years to come out. I suppose if Neil has a creative drought and the new Crowded House album is going to take another three years without showing... only then will the box set be out any sooner!


I've said it before...I don't really understand why it has to be an either/or situation. Why can't Neil work on new music AND approve the track list for the box set?

Pajama Club wasn't really my thing, and honestly, I don't listen to it much. But I liked a couple of the tunes, and I wholeheartedly support Neil's continued output of new music. I definitely want him to keep creating new songs.

But if the box set is delayed simply because Neil hasn't signed off on the track list, then it's pretty disappointing. I mean, it's not like Neil has to do ALL the work. When there are record company folks, management, Nick, Mark, and Tim, and people like Jaffaman to go through the archives and put together lists of possible tracks for the box and, I suspect, compile rough CDRs or playlists of proposed track lists...that means that Neil simply needs to find the time to listen to the songs. If we're talking about 4 CDs of music, that's, what, 4-5 hours of material? Listen to them a couple of times, make some notes, forward them to Jaffaman...we're talking about no more than three days' work, and that's allowing for a lot of breaks. And it wouldn't have to be three consecutive days...Neil could spend one day a week for three weeks, just to put some time between listening sessions. [Now, once Neil makes his decision, then the label has to look at the release schedule, plan marketing, etc., so it could still take another year to get it to the fans…]

I know what it's like when you're creating something new. The last thing you want is to have to go backwards to material that's 20 years old. But sometimes looking backward reminds you of how far you’ve come and provides inspiration that wouldn’t have come otherwise. Maybe listening to an old demo would remind Neil of some story or crazy thing that the band did back in the day, and that would inspire a new tune.

On one hand, I would say that Neil doesn't owe us anything. He has given us the soundtrack to our lives...more music in EACH his various guises [Enz, CH, solo, FB, 7WC, PC] than most artists can manage in an entire career. He has given us concerts and approved fan club CDs and other special fan releases.

But on the other hand, we're the ones who continue to support his career and buy his recordings. We're the ones singing along at his shows. I know he doesn’t take us for granted, and based on both his comments and behavior over the decades, he understands that he wouldn’t be able to live such a creative life without the support he’s received from thousands [millions?] of fans worldwide. So, yeah, he doesn't owe us anything, but I would hope that he'd sort of WANT to give something back to us...which, in turn, allows us to continue supporting HIM!

The thing is…we have to recognize that there may be other factors that we don’t know about. Maybe, with CD sales crashing, the label isn’t interested in releasing a box. Maybe management is holding off for some unknown reason. Maybe listening to all those old tracks with Paul playing is just emotionally draining in a way that none of us can understand.

So, we’re really left where we began. As fans, we have no control over when or if the box will be released. All we can do is enjoy whatever music comes our way from Neil.

Regarding the live stuff, I would love to see a short series of full show releases from different eras of the band. The club CDs were amazing, but they were each a single disc, which means possibly another hour of material exists for each one. I think Peter mentioned years ago that some tracks were left off because of technical issues [static, fade outs, etc.]. But wouldn’t it be amazing to have the entire STATE OF MIND show from 1988? Or a complete recording of the 1992 NEWCASTLE JAM gig---“possibly the best CH live show,” according to Peter?

That, my friends, would be cool. As long as it happens AFTER the box set is released. *wink*

mattl
You make some very interesting observations, mattl. God knows if the box would be Godsent: as one of the above-mentioned Souls, in possess of none of the rare, album-missing songs I keep on reading on older and newer posts, I would be overwhelmed by joy by it's release.

The first thing to understand, I guess, is if the problem is a commercial one, or an artistic one (or both)

quote:
OPB mattl:

I know what it's like when you're creating something new. The last thing you want is to have to go backwards to material that's 20 years old. But sometimes looking backward reminds you of how far you’ve come and provides inspiration that wouldn’t have come otherwise. Maybe listening to an old demo would remind Neil of some story or crazy thing that the band did back in the day, and that would inspire a new tune.


I can't agree with you. Artistically wise, the worst thing you could do is to look back while you're trying to create something new: if you do that, you come back to older emotions, older ways to express yourself, and even worser you come back to an older Forma Mentis. So I guess Neil should avoid that, if he's working on new material.
It would kill the creativity "on the cradle", and if you ask me a new CH album (IMO, IMO, IMO!) is surely better than the box.

quote:
(idem) The thing is…we have to recognize that there may be other factors that we don’t know about. Maybe, with CD sales crashing, the label isn’t interested in releasing a box. Maybe management is holding off for some unknown reason. Maybe listening to all those old tracks with Paul playing is just emotionally draining in a way that none of us can understand.


Sure, CDs sales are crashing, but labels keep on releasing albums, if they're interested on them, so... Does that means the label (is there a label? I read a thread about that some time ago, but it wasn't updated lately) is not interested? For sure, in his place, if a new CH (PJC?... [puts a tape on her mouth Roll Eyes] ) is scheduled for late 2012, early 2013, I wouldn't release a box set. Would schedule that at the Greek calendas.
In the end true fans (not the occasional one) will wait all the time is needed. They'll buy anytimes it comes out... let's save it for a moment of artistic void, or for a sabbatical year (or two, or three).

I want to state I'm not happy imagining this. If it depended on me, it would be released on May 12, 2012. Well, let's be more realistic: ... May 21? May 27???

quote:
So, we’re really left where we began. As fans, we have no control over when or if the box will be released. All we can do is enjoy whatever music comes our way from Neil.


In a slightly masochistic way I can only presume this will make for more joy when it will finally see the light. Ahem. If you are very patient you can pretend to believe it, can't you?

quote:
(idem) But wouldn’t it be amazing to have the entire STATE OF MIND show from 1988? Or a complete recording of the 1992 NEWCASTLE JAM gig---“possibly the best CH live show,” according to Peter?


Yes, it would be amazing. After a new CH album. And after the box set.

-
Neil approved all the demos years ago. It was the live stuff that Nick had final say on - and he hasn't come back to me on that yet! But since Neil let it slip in 2006 that a box set was in the works, Crowded House has reformed, Capitol's original box set producer has quit EMI, Crowded House quit EMI (though there's still a good relationship there), EMI has just about quit EMI and Neil has a lot of things on the boil.

A tracklist is only a tiny piece of the puzzle. Sourcing tapes, baking, restoring, mixing, mastering, clearing rights to music recordings, music publishing, photo copyright, essays, etc takes time, resources and money. The time and budget has to be right for Neil, management and the record company.
quote:
OPB Jaffaman:

Neil approved all the demos years ago. It was the live stuff that Nick had final say on - and he hasn't come back to me on that yet! But since Neil let it slip in 2006 that a box set was in the works, Crowded House has reformed, Capitol's original box set producer has quit EMI, Crowded House quit EMI (though there's still a good relationship there), EMI has just about quit EMI and Neil has a lot of things on the boil.

A tracklist is only a tiny piece of the puzzle. Sourcing tapes, baking, restoring, mixing, mastering, clearing rights to music recordings, music publishing, photo copyright, essays, etc takes time, resources and money. The time and budget has to be right for Neil, management and the record company.


Very interesting info. Thank you Jaffaman.

...EMI has just about quit EMI... Big Grin

-
If you think the Crowded House ones are bad you should of seen what we had to do for some of the Enz ones. The original reel to reel of the Reefer Cabaret shows actually did have mushrooms and toadstools growing inside it-which was kind of funny in one small way-being Enz were on the Mushroom label in Australia.
Some of the reels were stored in a warehouse that was flooded several times during some big storms here-many many years ago...so waterlogged.
So baking baking baking.. it works most of the time, sometimes depending on the tape itself...
Wow,I had no idea this scenario could be likely happen to tape reels ! Didn't think they would be salvagable in that state either - certainly a relief.

Makes you want to get everything digitally backed up...

Back to the subject of the unreleased stuff,I can't believe Neil has been talking about a boxed set since early 2007, and yet as off 2012, it STILL hasn't seen the light of day Roll Eyes

I would absolutley love a proper Crowdies rarities box set. I keep hearing about songs like "fields are full of your kind" , and would love to hear what they sound like.

If they are anything like the quality of the Afterglow stuff, they will be WELL worth hearing.

When I really get into a band (like Crowded House) I become a total compulsive obssessive completist - I hate knowing there's stuff out there that I don't have... Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by stuartjb:
Wow,I had no idea this scenario could be likely happen to tape reels ! Didn't think they would be salvagable in that state either - certainly a relief.

Makes you want to get everything digitally backed up...



Actually, digital is even worse. Hard drives fail or get damaged, software and hardware becomes obsolete.

I've heard stories of digital mixes/recordings made in the early 80s being utterly unrecoverable because the hard drives had failed and/or the software used to open the files no longer worked on modern operating systems.

At least with analogue, good quality tape can be repaired/rescued (up to a point).

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