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So, apperantly, I was really lousy predictor when I predicted good and solid destiny of second single "Either side of the world". So far, from it, nothing. Just like from "Saturday sun".

Mannagment of CH in their letter/answer to me and some fans said that next single will be "Twice if you are lucky". So, they wont wait any longer with obviously strongest title on album.

But, now, after lesson with SS and ESOTW what can we expect from TIYL as single?

Some of us think that SS was good chiice for first single, I even think that ESOTW is excellent choice for single, but obviously better after TIYL, not before. Both of those two singles failed, and we still dont know if they were even released as singles in material way. Just read on some site that ESOTW is upcoming single on Australian Charts after 01.10.. But, that is now, where is it?

So, after all that we know about that how Universal treat CH, what kind of songs are on charts these days, how BBC isnt so open to CH as before, what are the chances of future single?

And, what time of release is the best? Is it best time in Christmas time when air is filled with those sentimental christmas songs alla "Wham: Last Christmas", or you think its worst time for it?

Please, share your thoughts.

Mariola

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Sadly, without the band here to promote it, I think releasing TIYL now will be a case of too little too late - unless they can get it tied into a TV show or some other promo opportunity.

It might get on the Radio 2 C or B playlist and generate a few extra sales for the album, but it all seems a bit after the event to me. The album's been out for months now, the UK tour is long since over and the most commercial track still is only just coming out as the single.

If they stuck a few decent unreleased tracks on the "b-side" and released a physical copy, then enough Frenz might buy it to earn an entry in the lower reaches of the carts. I'd certainly buy it.

But then as a die-hard fan, I'd probably download a digital copy too, just to try to get them into the top 100.

Maybe that's why Neil's coming back to play a show in London later this month - to promote the single?

In reality, while I still want the Crowdies to have a chart hit, the days of top 30 hits are probably behind them. But, even so, minor hits still help plug albums, so it would be nice if the band's new record label actually tried to promote their singles with some kind of logical marketing strategy. That way they might shift a few more albums!
The House have dwindled from the top 40 Albums RIANZ Chart .. And there is nothing but s.h.i.t.e on the RIANZ top 40 singles chart. (Nothing New there) Roll Eyes .. It'll be interesting to see the reaction they get when they parade "Twice If Your Lucky" in front of the Winery tour crowd .. I think that it will go down really rather well considering it has a beautiful "Hook" & should have been the original released first single .. IMHO.
The way in which the "release dates" for Saturday Sun and Either Side of the World have come and gone without notice -- for that matter, have come and gone without physical singles to buy -- doesn't augur well, does it?

In any case, I don't think Crowded House are a singles band any more. The current singles market is a flashback to 1973 inasmuch as it's dominated by generic teen-pop, insipid family acts, and watered-down glam: just substitute Justin Bieber for Donny Osmond, The Jonas Brothers for The Partridge Family, and Lady Gaga for Suzie Quatro. In those days, more serious and arty album-oriented acts gave up on releasing singles altogether: as I recall, Pink Floyd didn't release a 45 from pretty much the time Syd Barrett left the band until The Wall. Crowded House are no Pink Floyd, but as someone pointed out in another thread, Intriguer feels -- for better and for worse -- more like a well-crafted 70s rock album than a collection of bankable, zeitgeist-friendly singles.

Maybe Twice If You're Lucky could have been a (minor) hit in another age. But for all its hooks, I doubt it has a snowflake's chance in hell of gatecrashing the charts in the current market. And that's no problem: after all, Pink Floyd could record hook-laden album tracks in the early to mid 70s -- think of Fearless from Meddle, for instance, or Wish You Were Here -- and never release them as singles. The careers of Messrs. Gilmour, Waters, et al. did just fine despite that. And so will Neil Finn's.
quote:
think of Fearless from Meddle




You pick the place and I'll choose the time
And I'll climb
The hill in my own way


Listening to that album now Watney


"You'll Never Walk Alone" :-)

Recorded @ Abbey Road Studios .. 1971 .. An absolutely stunning album. I still have the original vinyl disk bought that year and it sounds awesome.

quote:
The careers of Messrs. Gilmour, Waters, et al. did just fine despite that. And so will Neil Finn's.


Yep! ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
So, apperantly, I was really lousy predictor when I predicted good and solid destiny of second single "Either side of the world". So far, from it, nothing. Just like from "Saturday sun".

Mannagment of CH in their letter/answer to me and some fans said that next single will be "Twice if you are lucky". So, they wont wait any longer with obviously strongest title on album.

But, now, after lesson with SS and ESOTW what can we expect from TIYL as single?

Some of us think that SS was good chiice for first single, I even think that ESOTW is excellent choice for single, but obviously better after TIYL, not before. Both of those two singles failed, and we still dont know if they were even released as singles in material way. Just read on some site that ESOTW is upcoming single on Australian Charts after 01.10.. But, that is now, where is it?

So, after all that we know about that how Universal treat CH, what kind of songs are on charts these days, how BBC isnt so open to CH as before, what are the chances of future single?

And, what time of release is the best? Is it best time in Christmas time when air is filled with those sentimental christmas songs alla "Wham: Last Christmas", or you think its worst time for it?

Please, share your thoughts.


My personal view is that Archer's Arrow rather than SS would have made a better first single, but I think SS failed more because of it's late release date rather than anything else. If it had trailed the promotion CH did with the BBC and the tour dates then it would have definitely been played more on radio and would have been more familiar to audiences during the tour.

ESOTW as a single was just a big mistake. No radio station played it to my knowledge and UMG were too slow to get the video up on Youtube. Nice video, though I'm not sure it was worth the effort in the end since it had very little impact beyond hardcore fans.

TIYL is in theory a commercial and conventional enough pop song to walk into the A or B playlists of Radio 2, Absolute Radio and maybe even Heart FM, but it needs to be released with some sort of fanfare, which I why I am hoping that Neil will:

(a) Win some kind of award at the Q awards (they must be getting him to put on a show for some reason or other Confused

(b) Neil will do some other PR for Intriguer while he's in London to unveil TIYL as the new single and give Intriguer a
boost, a slot on Steve Wright in the Afternoon playing some music off Intriguer would work.

I think the idea of TIYL being a hit single is pretty remote, but if it gets enough Radio airplay I believe it could encourage sales of Intriguer in the pre-Xmas period when people are shopping for gifts. Most modern bands don't make slushy Xmas songs for the Xmas charts anymore and if the commercial release date for TIYL is timed for mid to late November it should avoid getting caught up in the nostalgic Xmas slush songs, since radio doesn't play these until the last 3 weeks of the Xmas period.

Next year, however, I think Crowded House need to start a fresh in the UK, re-release Intriguer properly (with some bonus material) and use Archer's Arrow and Amsterdam as radio promos, add to this another UK tour with radio promotion on top and Intriguer could prove to be a slow grower.

The rule that you get 3 singles or promos off an album doesn't exist anymore, for radio purpose artists seem to be able to release as many of they want.

Fyfe Dangerfield had 5 releases off Fly Yellow Moon and Paloma Faith is just going to release her 5th promo off her debut album "Do you want the truth or something beautiful".

So bring it on CH, lets see you do some proper promotion in the UK in 2011! Smiler Smiler

KB
Once upon a time (when the singles chart was about how many, um, singles) a band could sell CH had a chance of sneaking into the middle reaches of the chart on hardcore fan sales alone. This was predicated on putting new material on several formats.

The advent of downloads has changed all that. Firstly, sales of "singles" has gone through the roof as a result of the definition of "single" being widened to include any song you can download. Thus, CH need to sell far far more copies in order to make the charts.

Secondly, digital singles have far less interest for fans. Where once I wouldn't have blinked at the idea of buying a further three copies of a song I already owned in order to get the new B sides and live recordings. Now all I get is another (inferior) digital copy of a song I already own.

Even when digital download singles ARE issued with bonus material (eg Pour Le Monde) I have the option to buy each bonus track separately which means that each SONG is counted but not the actual song being touted as the single.

Saturday Sun and Either Side failed as much because there was nothing for us fans to buy as because radio failed to play them.
It's like someone forgot about this whole singles thing with Intriguer. TIYL is a simple, catchy tune that should have been exploited to hell, in the right sense.
Anyway, at least us "in the know" can enjoy it... and I think we should just forget this whole singles/promotion/record label debacle...

Sorry to be so negative, but promotion for Intriguer/CH is becoming a farce now. If we don't know about stuff like this, how should the generaé public? I just hope it doesn't discourage the guys from making and releasing great music, financially or otherwise.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BART:
- whatever happened to the US release of TIYL? was supposed to have happened about the same time as ESOTW in UK/Australia.
(QUOTE]

Hey now, hey now, you forgot that UMG is what we talking about? Dont recall that ESOTW was released in Europe neither. And like AndiB said, if I as fan doesnt know that, how my friend Pero would?

And if announcment of date of release a single means that single is released that day without any other action (actual releasing of material cd, promo, download) than Neil shouldnt go to UMG, I could also do that for him, volontery.
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
In any case, I don't think Crowded House are a singles band any more. The current singles market is a flashback to 1973 inasmuch as it's dominated by generic teen-pop, insipid family acts, and watered-down glam: just substitute Justin Bieber for Donny Osmond, The Jonas Brothers for The Partridge Family, and Lady Gaga for Suzie Quatro.
Suzi Quatro???!!!??? I'd wager ol' Suze would have killed for anything close to the kind of success Ms. Gaga has attained. Maybe Donna Summer might have been a better comparison. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
Just looked at Music mania for the commercial release dates of singles in November - but no sign of TIYL as yet Frowner.

http://www.musicmania.uk.com/cc.singlefile.php

I can't believe they would be so stupid as to release it in December when it will get lost in the sentimental slush of Xmas!


Clever thinking, Kittybear!
But, it wouldnt be wonder at all. Knowing fact with what kind of publisher they have deal (irritatly unrensposable, unprofessional UMG) and what kind of uncapable managment lead their bussiness side, which complitely failed to get back at least shadow of popularity to one of the most beloved and quality pop-rock groups in 1980s, and 1990s.

Add to that complitely wrong order of doing things: tour - single (if it was released actually) - album. Really clever way to get new fans and new crowd on tour. Confused

So, yap, they would probably release TIYL around 10.12. so that no one would hear them among new versions of "Last Christmas" and similar songs, two or three charity christmas songs, and few christmas collaborations between some "divas"; Beyonce and God knows who, probably. It would be luck if they end up on "C" list of BBC.

So, I appeal once more, knowing all that past few months: Neil, throw contract with UMG to garbage, find new publisher, show way out to this managment, find new ones. Or, leave it this way, if you are happy as it is now, I am too...
I think after tonight's performance on Oprah of DDIO by Susan Boyle, everyone will be talking about the song.

So, just to copy my latest post across :

Now would really be the time for UMG to WAKE UP, wouldn't it?

Get Twice If You're Lucky released with DDIO as a bonus track...........or perhaps EMI are planning a single release of DDIO to publicise the release of the latest compliation?
Hunter I agree with you that TIYL should have been the single that sold this album. I don't follow the charts for the same reason you stated, it's a load of s**t for the most part.

How large is the audience for Crowded House, at it's maximum, anyway? Not large enough to bring it back to the heights it once looked down from.
You guys are so stuck in the 90's. Release "Twice if You're Lucky" as a single with DDIO as a b-side? Come on now, sure that worked with "Fall At Your Feet" in the UK back 1992, but times have changed... a lot!

Susan Boyle's performance is going to generate a ton of downloads for her version of the song but some people are also going to be downloading the original version too. Still others will be reminded of Crowded House and wonder what ever happened to the band. The question is how to make those people more aware of the current status of CH and the new album.

I guess the Internet does also of the work for you. If you download CH's DDIO then you'll probably see links to the new greatest hits album and to Intriguer. I think the best way to capitalize on the Susan Boyle hype is to do more press so that people know CH is still around and still creating timeless music.

Whatever they do, this is only going to be good for Crowded House. Man, when you write one of the greatest songs of all time, it really is the gift that keeps on giving.
- just like tangible product, Painaporo! (....not that I'd go for DDIO as a B-side myself having countless versions of the song, like most of us!)

You're right though, it will be v. interesting to check out the Amazon.com download charts tomorrow - Susan Boyle's version won't of course be available but the original will be!

As a yardstick - the effect of X-Factor on the UK Amazon chart is amazing - 50%+ of the tracks in the top 40 are related in some way to the show - whether previous winners, guests, songs covered by current series competitors. The current UK favourite's previous band's (unreleased) album is @ 26 in the download chart!
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
Of course what would be ideal is if Subo goes on Oprah and is interviewed and asked about the song and says

"it's was originally by Crowded House, written by their lead singer Neil Finn....blah blah blah"

Like that's going to happen Big Grin


I agree that this would be ideal and Susan Boyle has already said that DDIO has been a longtime favorite of hers in press interviews.

One of the things I like about the idea of Susan Boyle covering the song is that she's obviously a singer and not a songwriter so she has no reason to pretend that DDIO is anything other than a cover song. Sometimes I get the feeling that singer/songwriters who have hits with cover songs don't want to talk up the fact that it's a cover too much because their hoping to encourage fans to listen to their original compositions. Boyle is a vocal performer though so there's no expectation that she will be writing her own songs which means she's more open to discussing any song's history and the original writers/performers.
I have learnt that TIYL will be released to radio and TV from mid-November 2010.

There will be a video but there will be no physical release of a single.
In fact from what I understand there is unlikely to be a digital single released either (I am trying to clarify this point and if I hear anything different I will post again).
Thanks KB.

I'm assuming this will be a UK release? Any idea who the video will be released to? Any idea when the track will be considered by the BBC Radio 2 playlist committee, i.e. from radio release date, or before?


It would be interesting to learn which non-album tracks other than Intriguer, Turn It Around & Eyes Grow Heavy were recorded as part of the sessions for Intriguer - anyone got any info?
Me no speaky the modern language of promos. Why make a promotional video for a song without also releasing it as a single with bonus tracks, whether in hard copy or digital format?

I'm sure the industry types have done their market research and worked out that successful video promos prompt customers either to purchase the hard-copy CD of the album on which the song appears or to download just the (already-released) tune itself. But it would cost record companies nothing -- nada, rien, kuch nahin, zilch -- to accompany the release of a video promo with a downloadable single package that includes bonus tracks. Such a package would certainly hook fans who have already bought the album, and make the companies more money. So I'm confused.

In the case of Twice If You're Lucky, I could easily imagine it being released with earlier live versions of the song such as the guitar-heavy 9:30 Club performance and the "Lucky Lola" version unveiled in Australia. We may be a small constituency on this forum, but I'm sure it wouldn't be just us who would flock to download a "Thrice If You're Lucky" package featuring all three versions.

And, to pick up on Bart's question, I'm sure many people would buy a single package featuring TIYL and any of the (by my reckoning) three as-yet unreleased songs from the Intriguer sessions. I think it was Mark Hart who said somewhere that they recorded 16 songs; there are 10 on the album, and three others (Intriguer, Turn it Around, Eyes Grow Heavy) are digitally available.
Ah, Watney, you've got me "Intrigued" with that Mark Hart quote. I havn't heard that. I would guess, then that the three remaining recorded songs would be "Better Things" (LOVE that one!), "Beautiful Life" (meh), and "The Only Way to Go is Forward". These are the only ones I've seen from the touring leading up to the album, except for "Cars Collide" which someone on here suggested was morphed into Saturday Sun (I still don't really hear it), and of course 789. Are there others I've missed?
If those three do exist in studio form, wow! Hope they will someday see the light (or at least get leaked!)
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Shealy:
I would guess, then that the three remaining recorded songs would be "Better Things" (LOVE that one!), "Beautiful Life" (meh), and "The Only Way to Go is Forward".


- I'd agree with that, Steve, although......they must have gone a long way down the recording process with 'Lucky Lola' before Neil decided to go back to the original so, potentially 17? (....perhaps they're all being left for the box set??)
Think Jaffaman said in the Cemetery In The Rain thread that the boxset is only CH Mach 1, so no Intriguer tracks will be making there way onto that as far as I understand BART Frowner

Don't really understand this, totally agree with Watney's post, would a couple of bonus tracks as an incentive be that hard to come up with? We want our bonus tracks!! Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
This is exactly what I'm trying to clarify Watney.

Would you mind if I quote your post as it may help... or it may have no effect whatsoever.

If you get my drift... Wink

By all means quote me, but I suspect your second prediction is more likely than your first ...

I wonder how Neil and the band are planning to "picturize" Twice If You're Lucky? Whatever one thinks of the two previous singles-that-weren't, the lyrics of Saturday Sun and Either Side of the World probably gave their video-makers more to work with.
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Thanks KB.

I'm assuming this will be a UK release? Any idea who the video will be released to? Any idea when the track will be considered by the BBC Radio 2 playlist committee, i.e. from radio release date, or before?


I assume that if the promo is going to radio on or about 14/15 November, Playlist committees at various radio stations will discuss it shortly before that date.

Why do you want to know Bart?
Don't you trust the great and good at BBC Radio 2 to welcome it onto their auspicious playlist? Wink
From Gryphon's Crowdies Club Update that arrived in the mail yesterday in the paragraph on Intriguer :

"With the Australian and NZ dates coming up we are hoping Intriguer will make a return to the charts. It did hit #1 on the Australian ARIA charts and #3 in New Zealand. It was club member support that got us across the line in Australia and made that happen - so thank you. I am hoping that tour sales and Christmas sales will indeed give us a NZ Gold and an Australian Gold record. Also, the third cut to radio will be "Twice if you're lucky" and expect to see not one, but two video clips for this one. One live and one animated. We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'

(bolding is my emphasis, and is not on the update sheet)

Given they hit Melbourne in just over a week (woooohoooo Big Grin ) will the cut to radio in Australia or a video appear before then?
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool
I'm so looking forward to the remix of Either Side of the World. I can already hear in my mind's ear the shrieking guitars of doom, laid like an army of chainsaws over a sped-up deconstruction of the samba rhythm that reduces the song to a manageable 15 seconds. And just imagine what Neil in full tonsil-shredding falsetto, in the manner of the lead singer/screamer of a band like Napalm Death, could do with the line "then you're in hell!!!" I really want to FEEL that line, you know?

Then again, Neil and co. may have a rather different treatment in mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool


Is this sarcasm?

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