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So, apperantly, I was really lousy predictor when I predicted good and solid destiny of second single "Either side of the world". So far, from it, nothing. Just like from "Saturday sun".

Mannagment of CH in their letter/answer to me and some fans said that next single will be "Twice if you are lucky". So, they wont wait any longer with obviously strongest title on album.

But, now, after lesson with SS and ESOTW what can we expect from TIYL as single?

Some of us think that SS was good chiice for first single, I even think that ESOTW is excellent choice for single, but obviously better after TIYL, not before. Both of those two singles failed, and we still dont know if they were even released as singles in material way. Just read on some site that ESOTW is upcoming single on Australian Charts after 01.10.. But, that is now, where is it?

So, after all that we know about that how Universal treat CH, what kind of songs are on charts these days, how BBC isnt so open to CH as before, what are the chances of future single?

And, what time of release is the best? Is it best time in Christmas time when air is filled with those sentimental christmas songs alla "Wham: Last Christmas", or you think its worst time for it?

Please, share your thoughts.

Mariola

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Sadly, without the band here to promote it, I think releasing TIYL now will be a case of too little too late - unless they can get it tied into a TV show or some other promo opportunity.

It might get on the Radio 2 C or B playlist and generate a few extra sales for the album, but it all seems a bit after the event to me. The album's been out for months now, the UK tour is long since over and the most commercial track still is only just coming out as the single.

If they stuck a few decent unreleased tracks on the "b-side" and released a physical copy, then enough Frenz might buy it to earn an entry in the lower reaches of the carts. I'd certainly buy it.

But then as a die-hard fan, I'd probably download a digital copy too, just to try to get them into the top 100.

Maybe that's why Neil's coming back to play a show in London later this month - to promote the single?

In reality, while I still want the Crowdies to have a chart hit, the days of top 30 hits are probably behind them. But, even so, minor hits still help plug albums, so it would be nice if the band's new record label actually tried to promote their singles with some kind of logical marketing strategy. That way they might shift a few more albums!
The House have dwindled from the top 40 Albums RIANZ Chart .. And there is nothing but s.h.i.t.e on the RIANZ top 40 singles chart. (Nothing New there) Roll Eyes .. It'll be interesting to see the reaction they get when they parade "Twice If Your Lucky" in front of the Winery tour crowd .. I think that it will go down really rather well considering it has a beautiful "Hook" & should have been the original released first single .. IMHO.
The way in which the "release dates" for Saturday Sun and Either Side of the World have come and gone without notice -- for that matter, have come and gone without physical singles to buy -- doesn't augur well, does it?

In any case, I don't think Crowded House are a singles band any more. The current singles market is a flashback to 1973 inasmuch as it's dominated by generic teen-pop, insipid family acts, and watered-down glam: just substitute Justin Bieber for Donny Osmond, The Jonas Brothers for The Partridge Family, and Lady Gaga for Suzie Quatro. In those days, more serious and arty album-oriented acts gave up on releasing singles altogether: as I recall, Pink Floyd didn't release a 45 from pretty much the time Syd Barrett left the band until The Wall. Crowded House are no Pink Floyd, but as someone pointed out in another thread, Intriguer feels -- for better and for worse -- more like a well-crafted 70s rock album than a collection of bankable, zeitgeist-friendly singles.

Maybe Twice If You're Lucky could have been a (minor) hit in another age. But for all its hooks, I doubt it has a snowflake's chance in hell of gatecrashing the charts in the current market. And that's no problem: after all, Pink Floyd could record hook-laden album tracks in the early to mid 70s -- think of Fearless from Meddle, for instance, or Wish You Were Here -- and never release them as singles. The careers of Messrs. Gilmour, Waters, et al. did just fine despite that. And so will Neil Finn's.
quote:
think of Fearless from Meddle




You pick the place and I'll choose the time
And I'll climb
The hill in my own way


Listening to that album now Watney


"You'll Never Walk Alone" :-)

Recorded @ Abbey Road Studios .. 1971 .. An absolutely stunning album. I still have the original vinyl disk bought that year and it sounds awesome.

quote:
The careers of Messrs. Gilmour, Waters, et al. did just fine despite that. And so will Neil Finn's.


Yep! ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
So, apperantly, I was really lousy predictor when I predicted good and solid destiny of second single "Either side of the world". So far, from it, nothing. Just like from "Saturday sun".

Mannagment of CH in their letter/answer to me and some fans said that next single will be "Twice if you are lucky". So, they wont wait any longer with obviously strongest title on album.

But, now, after lesson with SS and ESOTW what can we expect from TIYL as single?

Some of us think that SS was good chiice for first single, I even think that ESOTW is excellent choice for single, but obviously better after TIYL, not before. Both of those two singles failed, and we still dont know if they were even released as singles in material way. Just read on some site that ESOTW is upcoming single on Australian Charts after 01.10.. But, that is now, where is it?

So, after all that we know about that how Universal treat CH, what kind of songs are on charts these days, how BBC isnt so open to CH as before, what are the chances of future single?

And, what time of release is the best? Is it best time in Christmas time when air is filled with those sentimental christmas songs alla "Wham: Last Christmas", or you think its worst time for it?

Please, share your thoughts.


My personal view is that Archer's Arrow rather than SS would have made a better first single, but I think SS failed more because of it's late release date rather than anything else. If it had trailed the promotion CH did with the BBC and the tour dates then it would have definitely been played more on radio and would have been more familiar to audiences during the tour.

ESOTW as a single was just a big mistake. No radio station played it to my knowledge and UMG were too slow to get the video up on Youtube. Nice video, though I'm not sure it was worth the effort in the end since it had very little impact beyond hardcore fans.

TIYL is in theory a commercial and conventional enough pop song to walk into the A or B playlists of Radio 2, Absolute Radio and maybe even Heart FM, but it needs to be released with some sort of fanfare, which I why I am hoping that Neil will:

(a) Win some kind of award at the Q awards (they must be getting him to put on a show for some reason or other Confused

(b) Neil will do some other PR for Intriguer while he's in London to unveil TIYL as the new single and give Intriguer a
boost, a slot on Steve Wright in the Afternoon playing some music off Intriguer would work.

I think the idea of TIYL being a hit single is pretty remote, but if it gets enough Radio airplay I believe it could encourage sales of Intriguer in the pre-Xmas period when people are shopping for gifts. Most modern bands don't make slushy Xmas songs for the Xmas charts anymore and if the commercial release date for TIYL is timed for mid to late November it should avoid getting caught up in the nostalgic Xmas slush songs, since radio doesn't play these until the last 3 weeks of the Xmas period.

Next year, however, I think Crowded House need to start a fresh in the UK, re-release Intriguer properly (with some bonus material) and use Archer's Arrow and Amsterdam as radio promos, add to this another UK tour with radio promotion on top and Intriguer could prove to be a slow grower.

The rule that you get 3 singles or promos off an album doesn't exist anymore, for radio purpose artists seem to be able to release as many of they want.

Fyfe Dangerfield had 5 releases off Fly Yellow Moon and Paloma Faith is just going to release her 5th promo off her debut album "Do you want the truth or something beautiful".

So bring it on CH, lets see you do some proper promotion in the UK in 2011! Smiler Smiler

KB
Once upon a time (when the singles chart was about how many, um, singles) a band could sell CH had a chance of sneaking into the middle reaches of the chart on hardcore fan sales alone. This was predicated on putting new material on several formats.

The advent of downloads has changed all that. Firstly, sales of "singles" has gone through the roof as a result of the definition of "single" being widened to include any song you can download. Thus, CH need to sell far far more copies in order to make the charts.

Secondly, digital singles have far less interest for fans. Where once I wouldn't have blinked at the idea of buying a further three copies of a song I already owned in order to get the new B sides and live recordings. Now all I get is another (inferior) digital copy of a song I already own.

Even when digital download singles ARE issued with bonus material (eg Pour Le Monde) I have the option to buy each bonus track separately which means that each SONG is counted but not the actual song being touted as the single.

Saturday Sun and Either Side failed as much because there was nothing for us fans to buy as because radio failed to play them.
It's like someone forgot about this whole singles thing with Intriguer. TIYL is a simple, catchy tune that should have been exploited to hell, in the right sense.
Anyway, at least us "in the know" can enjoy it... and I think we should just forget this whole singles/promotion/record label debacle...

Sorry to be so negative, but promotion for Intriguer/CH is becoming a farce now. If we don't know about stuff like this, how should the generaé public? I just hope it doesn't discourage the guys from making and releasing great music, financially or otherwise.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BART:
- whatever happened to the US release of TIYL? was supposed to have happened about the same time as ESOTW in UK/Australia.
(QUOTE]

Hey now, hey now, you forgot that UMG is what we talking about? Dont recall that ESOTW was released in Europe neither. And like AndiB said, if I as fan doesnt know that, how my friend Pero would?

And if announcment of date of release a single means that single is released that day without any other action (actual releasing of material cd, promo, download) than Neil shouldnt go to UMG, I could also do that for him, volontery.
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
In any case, I don't think Crowded House are a singles band any more. The current singles market is a flashback to 1973 inasmuch as it's dominated by generic teen-pop, insipid family acts, and watered-down glam: just substitute Justin Bieber for Donny Osmond, The Jonas Brothers for The Partridge Family, and Lady Gaga for Suzie Quatro.
Suzi Quatro???!!!??? I'd wager ol' Suze would have killed for anything close to the kind of success Ms. Gaga has attained. Maybe Donna Summer might have been a better comparison. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
Just looked at Music mania for the commercial release dates of singles in November - but no sign of TIYL as yet Frowner.

http://www.musicmania.uk.com/cc.singlefile.php

I can't believe they would be so stupid as to release it in December when it will get lost in the sentimental slush of Xmas!


Clever thinking, Kittybear!
But, it wouldnt be wonder at all. Knowing fact with what kind of publisher they have deal (irritatly unrensposable, unprofessional UMG) and what kind of uncapable managment lead their bussiness side, which complitely failed to get back at least shadow of popularity to one of the most beloved and quality pop-rock groups in 1980s, and 1990s.

Add to that complitely wrong order of doing things: tour - single (if it was released actually) - album. Really clever way to get new fans and new crowd on tour. Confused

So, yap, they would probably release TIYL around 10.12. so that no one would hear them among new versions of "Last Christmas" and similar songs, two or three charity christmas songs, and few christmas collaborations between some "divas"; Beyonce and God knows who, probably. It would be luck if they end up on "C" list of BBC.

So, I appeal once more, knowing all that past few months: Neil, throw contract with UMG to garbage, find new publisher, show way out to this managment, find new ones. Or, leave it this way, if you are happy as it is now, I am too...
I think after tonight's performance on Oprah of DDIO by Susan Boyle, everyone will be talking about the song.

So, just to copy my latest post across :

Now would really be the time for UMG to WAKE UP, wouldn't it?

Get Twice If You're Lucky released with DDIO as a bonus track...........or perhaps EMI are planning a single release of DDIO to publicise the release of the latest compliation?
Hunter I agree with you that TIYL should have been the single that sold this album. I don't follow the charts for the same reason you stated, it's a load of s**t for the most part.

How large is the audience for Crowded House, at it's maximum, anyway? Not large enough to bring it back to the heights it once looked down from.
You guys are so stuck in the 90's. Release "Twice if You're Lucky" as a single with DDIO as a b-side? Come on now, sure that worked with "Fall At Your Feet" in the UK back 1992, but times have changed... a lot!

Susan Boyle's performance is going to generate a ton of downloads for her version of the song but some people are also going to be downloading the original version too. Still others will be reminded of Crowded House and wonder what ever happened to the band. The question is how to make those people more aware of the current status of CH and the new album.

I guess the Internet does also of the work for you. If you download CH's DDIO then you'll probably see links to the new greatest hits album and to Intriguer. I think the best way to capitalize on the Susan Boyle hype is to do more press so that people know CH is still around and still creating timeless music.

Whatever they do, this is only going to be good for Crowded House. Man, when you write one of the greatest songs of all time, it really is the gift that keeps on giving.
- just like tangible product, Painaporo! (....not that I'd go for DDIO as a B-side myself having countless versions of the song, like most of us!)

You're right though, it will be v. interesting to check out the Amazon.com download charts tomorrow - Susan Boyle's version won't of course be available but the original will be!

As a yardstick - the effect of X-Factor on the UK Amazon chart is amazing - 50%+ of the tracks in the top 40 are related in some way to the show - whether previous winners, guests, songs covered by current series competitors. The current UK favourite's previous band's (unreleased) album is @ 26 in the download chart!
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
Of course what would be ideal is if Subo goes on Oprah and is interviewed and asked about the song and says

"it's was originally by Crowded House, written by their lead singer Neil Finn....blah blah blah"

Like that's going to happen Big Grin


I agree that this would be ideal and Susan Boyle has already said that DDIO has been a longtime favorite of hers in press interviews.

One of the things I like about the idea of Susan Boyle covering the song is that she's obviously a singer and not a songwriter so she has no reason to pretend that DDIO is anything other than a cover song. Sometimes I get the feeling that singer/songwriters who have hits with cover songs don't want to talk up the fact that it's a cover too much because their hoping to encourage fans to listen to their original compositions. Boyle is a vocal performer though so there's no expectation that she will be writing her own songs which means she's more open to discussing any song's history and the original writers/performers.
I have learnt that TIYL will be released to radio and TV from mid-November 2010.

There will be a video but there will be no physical release of a single.
In fact from what I understand there is unlikely to be a digital single released either (I am trying to clarify this point and if I hear anything different I will post again).
Thanks KB.

I'm assuming this will be a UK release? Any idea who the video will be released to? Any idea when the track will be considered by the BBC Radio 2 playlist committee, i.e. from radio release date, or before?


It would be interesting to learn which non-album tracks other than Intriguer, Turn It Around & Eyes Grow Heavy were recorded as part of the sessions for Intriguer - anyone got any info?
Me no speaky the modern language of promos. Why make a promotional video for a song without also releasing it as a single with bonus tracks, whether in hard copy or digital format?

I'm sure the industry types have done their market research and worked out that successful video promos prompt customers either to purchase the hard-copy CD of the album on which the song appears or to download just the (already-released) tune itself. But it would cost record companies nothing -- nada, rien, kuch nahin, zilch -- to accompany the release of a video promo with a downloadable single package that includes bonus tracks. Such a package would certainly hook fans who have already bought the album, and make the companies more money. So I'm confused.

In the case of Twice If You're Lucky, I could easily imagine it being released with earlier live versions of the song such as the guitar-heavy 9:30 Club performance and the "Lucky Lola" version unveiled in Australia. We may be a small constituency on this forum, but I'm sure it wouldn't be just us who would flock to download a "Thrice If You're Lucky" package featuring all three versions.

And, to pick up on Bart's question, I'm sure many people would buy a single package featuring TIYL and any of the (by my reckoning) three as-yet unreleased songs from the Intriguer sessions. I think it was Mark Hart who said somewhere that they recorded 16 songs; there are 10 on the album, and three others (Intriguer, Turn it Around, Eyes Grow Heavy) are digitally available.
Ah, Watney, you've got me "Intrigued" with that Mark Hart quote. I havn't heard that. I would guess, then that the three remaining recorded songs would be "Better Things" (LOVE that one!), "Beautiful Life" (meh), and "The Only Way to Go is Forward". These are the only ones I've seen from the touring leading up to the album, except for "Cars Collide" which someone on here suggested was morphed into Saturday Sun (I still don't really hear it), and of course 789. Are there others I've missed?
If those three do exist in studio form, wow! Hope they will someday see the light (or at least get leaked!)
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Shealy:
I would guess, then that the three remaining recorded songs would be "Better Things" (LOVE that one!), "Beautiful Life" (meh), and "The Only Way to Go is Forward".


- I'd agree with that, Steve, although......they must have gone a long way down the recording process with 'Lucky Lola' before Neil decided to go back to the original so, potentially 17? (....perhaps they're all being left for the box set??)
Think Jaffaman said in the Cemetery In The Rain thread that the boxset is only CH Mach 1, so no Intriguer tracks will be making there way onto that as far as I understand BART Frowner

Don't really understand this, totally agree with Watney's post, would a couple of bonus tracks as an incentive be that hard to come up with? We want our bonus tracks!! Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
This is exactly what I'm trying to clarify Watney.

Would you mind if I quote your post as it may help... or it may have no effect whatsoever.

If you get my drift... Wink

By all means quote me, but I suspect your second prediction is more likely than your first ...

I wonder how Neil and the band are planning to "picturize" Twice If You're Lucky? Whatever one thinks of the two previous singles-that-weren't, the lyrics of Saturday Sun and Either Side of the World probably gave their video-makers more to work with.
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Thanks KB.

I'm assuming this will be a UK release? Any idea who the video will be released to? Any idea when the track will be considered by the BBC Radio 2 playlist committee, i.e. from radio release date, or before?


I assume that if the promo is going to radio on or about 14/15 November, Playlist committees at various radio stations will discuss it shortly before that date.

Why do you want to know Bart?
Don't you trust the great and good at BBC Radio 2 to welcome it onto their auspicious playlist? Wink
From Gryphon's Crowdies Club Update that arrived in the mail yesterday in the paragraph on Intriguer :

"With the Australian and NZ dates coming up we are hoping Intriguer will make a return to the charts. It did hit #1 on the Australian ARIA charts and #3 in New Zealand. It was club member support that got us across the line in Australia and made that happen - so thank you. I am hoping that tour sales and Christmas sales will indeed give us a NZ Gold and an Australian Gold record. Also, the third cut to radio will be "Twice if you're lucky" and expect to see not one, but two video clips for this one. One live and one animated. We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'

(bolding is my emphasis, and is not on the update sheet)

Given they hit Melbourne in just over a week (woooohoooo Big Grin ) will the cut to radio in Australia or a video appear before then?
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool
I'm so looking forward to the remix of Either Side of the World. I can already hear in my mind's ear the shrieking guitars of doom, laid like an army of chainsaws over a sped-up deconstruction of the samba rhythm that reduces the song to a manageable 15 seconds. And just imagine what Neil in full tonsil-shredding falsetto, in the manner of the lead singer/screamer of a band like Napalm Death, could do with the line "then you're in hell!!!" I really want to FEEL that line, you know?

Then again, Neil and co. may have a rather different treatment in mind.
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool


Is this sarcasm?
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool


Is this sarcasm?


Is this?
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by She will have her way:
We also heard that there is a new remix of 'Either Side Of The World'[/b]



YES, YES, YESSSSS! Finally someone from managment crew, or anybody else, find out that this song is made to be remixed, and in some dance way, I hope. Not because I love it, but because it has big chances in that way to put CH on top pages and top of charts where they supposed to be.

Without any modesty and humblesty (can I put it that way?) I can say that I was among those fans who wrote to CH managment that they should consider possibillity of making dance remix of ESOTW. Maybe with David Guetta or somebody like him. Lets hope it will turn this way and will be global, even dance hit!

Finnaly something (could be) so strong!

Now, I must consider and thinking about some more advices to them. Cool


Is this sarcasm?


Is this?


Isn't it always?
Post for Frenz.

Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
And, to pick up on Bart's question, I'm sure many people would buy a single package featuring TIYL and any of the (by my reckoning) three as-yet unreleased songs from the Intriguer sessions. I think it was Mark Hart who said somewhere that they recorded 16 songs; there are 10 on the album, and three others (Intriguer, Turn it Around, Eyes Grow Heavy) are digitally available.


I know of 2 songs being released via itunes (Eyes Grow Heavy & Turn It Around). Is a vocal version of Intriguer out there or just the ones from the Official site with and without backing vocals?"
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Mariola, your enthusiasm is applauded but which club or dance radio station in which universe is ever going to play something by Crowded House?


I sort of agree with you Bart and I sort of don't...

I mean I never thought I would hear club mixes featuring Leo Sayer or Elvis Presley - but they exist and they were huge chart successes - so I suppose it all depends on what the DJ does to the song.

Since ESOTW is my fav song off Intriguer I wait with some trepidation...
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Mariola, your enthusiasm is applauded but which club or dance radio station in which universe is ever going to play something by Crowded House?


I sort of agree with you Bart and I sort of don't...

I mean I never thought I would hear club mixes featuring Leo Sayer or Elvis Presley - but they exist and they were huge chart successes - so I suppose it all depends on what the DJ does to the song.

Since ESOTW is my fav song off Intriguer I wait with some trepidation...


Thats the spirit, Kittybear! Wink

And, yes, ESOTW is among three best songs from Intriguer (with Falling dove and TIYL, pure masterpiece to me and I dont believe that any remix could be better than this studio version. But, anything that would take CH from complet annonymus status which they have now, is more than welcome to me.
My imagination is still reeling from She Will Have Her Way's news that there will be not one but *two* promo clips for Twice If You're Lucky -- each of which poses tantalizing possibilities.

1. A "Live" Promo. Does that mean footage of the band on stage superimposed over the studio recording, or does it mean a live version will be released as a bonus downloadable track? And if so, will it be a pre-Intriguer performance like the famous 9:30 Club one?

2. An "Animated" Clip. Does this mean a cartoon? Will we see Neil, Nick, Mark and Matt Morphed into Mighty Power Rangers? Or Smurfs?
9:30 version, Lucky version.....whatever!

How I wonder is the remixed urban panpipe version of ESOTW going to reach us - I guess it might be made available as a download via the official site.........but then again they promised that with Eyes Grow Heavy & Turn It Around!

Mariola/KB - I DO hope you're both right, would love to see CH score a hit in any way shape or form.

They could always speak to that nice Mr Cowell and get an X-factor slot, Bon Jovi were on the show last night to promote their greatest hits CD) perhaps Ms Boyle (who of course originates from the Cowell stable) would let the band duet with her on her soon to be world-wide smash of DDIO??!!
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
They could always speak to that nice Mr Cowell and get an X-factor slot, Bon Jovi were on the show last night to promote their greatest hits CD) perhaps Ms Boyle (who of course originates from the Cowell stable) would let the band duet with her on her soon to be world-wide smash of DDIO??!!

Perish the thought. I can just imagine the headline: Neil Finn Afflicted By A Bad Boyle

But back to TIYL. I'm cautiously allowing myself to hope that the announcement of two promos does mean that the "live" (as opposed to "animated") version *will* be an actual live performance, and hopefully a pre-Intriguer one. What would be intriguing about a live version that doubles what's on the album? And it can't have escaped the band's attention that there is a 400+-post thread in this forum about the virtues of the 9:30 Club TIYL and the "Lucky" makeover. Obviously there's a hungry audience out there for an alternate version --
quote:
They're trying to sell the album remember...


I WISH they(UMG) were hardly, any promo on their part, the one small mention there is of the Crowdies on their site gives a link to some other random artist and they have ignored dozens of emails from fans requesting the right page be put up/decent info being put up and questions about the album does'nt really seem like trying to sell it to me


Just IMHO
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
I can't see the record company issuing a promo featuring a recording of the song that sounds NOTHING like the album version.

They're trying to sell the album remember...

And they would be a selling the album -- or, more importantly, making $$ that they wouldn't otherwise generate -- if there was a downloadable single of TIYL b/w a downloadable alternate B-side version of the song. Heck, *I* would buy it, and so would many other people who already have the album!
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
And it can't have escaped the band's attention that there is a 400+-post thread in this forum about the virtues of the 9:30 Club TIYL and the "Lucky" makeover. Obviously there's a hungry audience out there for an alternate version --
I suspect that the band don't care about such things nearly as much as you want them to, Watney. And I also don't think there's a chance in the world that a video for TIYL, even a live one, would feature a version substantially different than the one on the album. After all, if the band wanted to record it that way, they would have - right?
Yes, but it's Neil "One Nil Oops I Mean One All" Finn we're speaking about here -- the man who re-records albums because he cannot avoid second-guessing his decisions from the first go-round.

But I dare say you're right, and the "live" version will be substantially the same as the studio one. It's hard not to dream, that's all ... but wishful thinking always gets a bad rap. Sniff.
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
Yes, but it's Neil "One Nil Oops I Mean One All" Finn we're speaking about here -- the man who re-records albums because he cannot avoid second-guessing his decisions from the first go-round.

But I dare say you're right, and the "live" version will be substantially the same as the studio one. It's hard not to dream, that's all ... but wishful thinking always gets a bad rap. Sniff.
Well, maybe we'll all be shocked one day when Intriguer - The Special, Very Very Limited Edition hits the stores, with all 16 tracks and re-recorded versions of everything. Maybe even with drums you can actually hear in the mix. And vocoder on every song. If you're gonna dream, dream BIG. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Mariola/KB - I DO hope you're both right, would love to see CH score a hit in any way shape or form.


IMO it doesn't make sense to release a dance/club remix of ESOTW at the same time as they are releasing TIYL - since they wouldn't want one overshadowing the other. So although a remix of ESOTW maybe coming I hope that will be issued after TIYL has had it's chance.

Of the two projects, TIYL (if it gets enough airplay) is more likely to sell Intriguer and highlight real CH music.

The people likely to be turned on by a CH/DJ dance remix aren't likely to become Crowdies IMO, in my experience successful dance remixes raise the profile of the artist generally (which is good). But I don't think all the young clubbers dashed out and bought the back catalogue of Leo Sayer after his huge dance hit.

You are, however, slightly more likely to hear an old Leo Sayer track on Radio 2 now than you were before he had the remix/dance hit, maybe because the remixes made him cooler Confused Confused. Not sure about that?
I dunno -- Very Very Best has not made even the slightest dent in the UK or US charts so far. So I'm not pinning any hopes on TIYL getting much if any air time. The days when Crowded House were a major-league charting band are, for better or for worse, gone -- save, perhaps, in Australia and NZ. But Crowded House can boast what the majority of charting acts can't: a very loyal constituency of diehard fans who will buy their new material and attend their concerts. That's enough to keep the band members and their families suited and booted for the forseeable future. And I think that's fine by them.

What I want from Crowded House "singles" -- to the extent they exist anymore -- aren't blockbuster chart-toppers or even radio playlisted semi-hits. I just want interesting new material that isn't available on the albums. Which isn't to say that I wish they would crack the vaults and rush-release The Only Way To Go Is Forward as their next single. But if TIYL *is* to be the next "promo," it would be nice if it were to be released -- if only virtually -- in a downloadable package with some previously unreleased tracks or rarities.

There I go again -- wishfully thinking. Got to stop that now.
It makes sense to me Watney. Who's going to purchase the download version of TIYL when they already own the entire album, especially if they own it on cd? No one. Zilch. Why would you? Then.. if it gets no airplay how are they expecting new fans to first find it and buy it? Releasing the 930 club version with the single to download would sell multiple times over what they would sell with just the one song. Seems obvious enough to me...
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
I dunno -- Very Very Best has not made even the slightest dent in the UK or US charts so far. So I'm not pinning any hopes on TIYL getting much if any air time. The days when Crowded House were a major-league charting band are, for better or for worse, gone -- save, perhaps, in Australia and NZ. But Crowded House can boast what the majority of charting acts can't: a very loyal constituency of diehard fans who will buy their new material and attend their concerts. That's enough to keep the band members and their families suited and booted for the forseeable future. And I think that's fine by them.

What I want from Crowded House "singles" -- to the extent they exist anymore -- aren't blockbuster chart-toppers or even radio playlisted semi-hits. I just want interesting new material that isn't available on the albums. Which isn't to say that I wish they would crack the vaults and rush-release The Only Way To Go Is Forward as their next single. But if TIYL *is* to be the next "promo," it would be nice if it were to be released -- if only virtually -- in a downloadable package with some previously unreleased tracks or rarities.

There I go again -- wishfully thinking. Got to stop that now.


I can't agree with you completely here Watney, I'm not surprised the VVB has had little impact over here, after all it's had very little marketing and its largely aimed at people who haven't got RD or TOE, that is complete newbies and the abject failure of Intriguer so far means there aren't many new fans to buy it.

However, TIYL is a really strong, commercial song and although it probably will be ignored in the US, I believe that it will get radio airplay over in the UK because unlike ESOTW its a very conventional and catchy pop song and this time (unlike SS) I think the timing is right. Like you, I don't care if it's a hit as such, I just want Intriguer to do better but to that end I think UMG might be saving any bonus tracks for a reissue of the album in the spring/summer of 2011. Reissues seem to be quite common these days as record companies seem determined the squeeze every ounce of juice out of the product they can.

I do, however, totally agree that a TIYL download single with interesting b-side would be a great idea and I have suggested this to the powers that be, however their response has been a deafening silence Frowner.
I'd be the first to admit that I'm rather out of touch these days with mainstream radio and chart hits. But what my students listen to - and they're a fairly representative sample of the 18-26 demographic that send most songs into top 10 lists, whether mainstream or "alternative" - sounds nothing like TIYL. Their music sensibilities seem to have been forged from a weird mix of hiphop, R and B, hardcore punk, and shoegazing indie music. Their spectrum of taste doesn't seem to extend to well- wrought pop. Heck, they don't even like The Beatles; for them, classic rock is Nirvana or, if they are a little more "arty," The Cocteau Twins. Perhaps things are different in the UK.
quote:
Originally posted by Watney Sideburns:
But what my students listen to - and they're a fairly representative sample of the 18-26 demographic that send most songs into top 10 lists, whether mainstream or "alternative" - sounds nothing like TIYL. Their music sensibilities seem to have been forged from a weird mix of hiphop, R and B, hardcore punk, and shoegazing indie music. Their spectrum of taste doesn't seem to extend to well- wrought pop. Heck, they don't even like The Beatles; for them, classic rock is Nirvana or, if they are a little more "arty," The Cocteau Twins. Perhaps things are different in the UK.


Well, the current UK singles chart is dominated by what they now call R'n'B with a side of hiphop. It ain't anything like the music I'd call R'n'B but there ya go. The lack of variety is truly scary. There is so little chart music that has been within a mile of a guitar...

I'd be hopeful that TIYL would get Radio 2 airplay which might in turn generate a few album sales, but chart success for the single is an absolute non starter.

Unless someone randomly picked it as a Rage Against The Machine-esque anti X Factor candidate. But even then, its far too safe for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
There is so little chart music that has been within a mile of a guitar...


A digression I know but there's an article on this very subject on the BBC website for those that are interested....

Even a year or so back, the charts had a liberal sprinking of mainstream indie (if that isn't an oxymoron!). Now nothing! Even the half decent (term applied very loosely) 'RnB' tracks aren't complete without a guest rapper instead of a middle 8.

So Crowded House haven't got a hope in hell of getting anywhere near the charts. Still be good to hear TIYL on Radio 2/Absolute...guess we should start checking the playlists soon?
Here in the states we gave up on chart success for the Crowdies decades ago. That being said, "Twice If You're Lucky" is the best single this band will have released since "Distant Sun" so somebody had better do *something* with it.

I don't expect to hear it on the radio but it would be nice if it found it's way on to a popular movie soundtrack, or was used in a commercial for something. Maybe a commercial promoting a movie? If a song like this can't be used in some way to spread the word of Crowded House in the US then nothing will (and yes, I'm completely willing to admit that the truth may be that nothing will).

Still, it's the best song on Intriguer and I hope someone with some authority does something with it so it gets heard.
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Kittybear - any news from your sources re: consideration of TIYL by Radio 2 playlist committee yet?

I'm assuming it'll be w/c 13 Nov at the earliest?


I haven't contacted them about it, as I said previously I don't intend to try to help this one, but your obviously desperate for something/anything so do you think I should try or should I leave it? Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Paināporo:
Here in the states we gave up on chart success for the Crowdies decades ago. That being said, "Twice If You're Lucky" is the best single this band will have released since "Distant Sun"

...except for "Nails in My Feet," "Pineapple Head," "Private Universe," "Locked Out," "Don't Stop Now," "Pour le Monde," "Saturday Sun," and "Either Side of the World." Big Grin

If there aren't going to be any b-sides, what's the point?
Thanks for posting the article, KB.

- quoting from it :What, then, to do with the extra songs from your recording session that didn't quite make the album? Giving them away is an increasingly popular option

Seems like a sensible solution, doesn't it, especially as the' Box Set' will apparently be limited to CH MK 1.....
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
- not sure whether the UK 'release to radio' of TIYL has happened yet, certainly the track isn't playlisted by either BBC Radio 2 or Absolute for next week......


Yeah - I noticed all that too.

Keep an eye on the CH music page in the BBC website next week, they often do a one off play in advance, before they playlist a song and they always put the following week's playlist up Wednesday evening after 6.00ish.

Hopefully it's just the UMG leviathan acting sluggishly as it always does. Otherwise, it could be bad news.
I'm pretty murky about the manner of releasing singles these days. But then I'm old and remember when there actually were physical 45rpm singles, released before an album and used to drive the popularity of the band and album sales. A different era to be sure.

What's odd about TIYL as the next single, whatever that means these days, is that the band isn't playing it. I saw them in Nashville, where they didn't play it. Looking at various play lists from other venues, they're not playing it, even in Australia.

Anybody have any insight into this?
I just made a similar observation in the Perth gig thread. It's strange, isn't it? If they've decided to release TIYL as a "single" (whatever that means in this day and age), and gone to the effort of making not one but two promos for the song, one would think the band would feel obliged to play it. But right now, TIYL doesn't seem to be finding favour with them. I wonder if Neil, dissatisfied with all the road-tested versions of the song, has now tired of the studio recording arrangement too?
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
quote:
Originally posted by stuartjb:
I reckon Crowded House should consider moving back to Parlophone , or maybe nonesuch records.They've done a good job of representing Wilco, and Ry Cooder for that matter.



I quite agree. surely almost anywhere has got to be better than the 'people' they are with now


Absolutely wright, Finngirl. But, this move CH made to UMG was again big mistake, like many mistakes (in commercial, promoting way, not musical) their managment have done since release of Intriguer, and before that. I am not suggesting they should stay with EMI, because I wasnt satisfiyed with their treatment with CH in time of TOE. But, I really dont know what UMG promised them to sign a contract? Only thing that UMG provided them was releasing album on time, and entry in probably every record store in the world. But, is that enough when nobody except fans even know that you have a new record? Whats the point to have entry in every record store when nobody knows about it?

So, I ask myself and every good soul here: wouldnt be much smarter and more inteligent to have smaller, minor publisher which would do everything to promote you because CH would be a "huge fish" for him, not small fish in sea of global, huge UMG. UMG dosnt care for CH, I guarantee it. They have many famous, attractive artist and CH is for them just one more number, just matter of ego in a way: "we get them before others, we "kidnapped" them from EMI.

So, here in Croatia we have one smart sentence: "better first in village, then last in town". CH should keep up to that.
My guess is that EMI rather than Neil or the band owns the master for the original recording of DDIO, which would mean UMG couldn't re-release DDIO unless Crowded House went back to the studio and recorded a new version.

This has been done before -- Camper Van Beethoven released a Best Of a few years ago on their own label that contained re-recordings of songs they had previously released while contracted to Virgin records. But somehow, I can't see UMG-era Crowded House having either the energy or the interest in re-recording DDIO just to make a few brass razoos from the unstoppable SuBo machine. Besides, Neil is doubtless already coining it in from the songwriter's royalties SuBo owes him.

Right now, I think there's more chance of Neil et al going back to the studio to have a second, I mean third, I mean fourth crack at Twice If You're Lucky.
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
Thanks, Watney - I was thinking alonmg similar lines.

Just checked the BBC Radio 2 playlist for next week.....no TIYL.


The problem is we have no information, we don't know if the single's been rejected by the Beeb and other radio stations again or if UMG are just slow in releasing it to radio.

Anyone who can fill in the blanks please feel free. Frowner
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Surely almost anywhere has got to be better than the 'people' they are with now


You're making the assumption that the band aren't happy with what UMG has done.

WE may not be happy because we hope for more commercial recognition for the band. THEY may be perfectly happy with the sales they've achieved.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Surely almost anywhere has got to be better than the 'people' they are with now


You're making the assumption that the band aren't happy with what UMG has done.

WE may not be happy because we hope for more commercial recognition for the band. THEY may be perfectly happy with the sales they've achieved.


Well, assumption of Finngirl is quite on place. I think, Neil and co. have to be have really low expectations about their music if they are satisfiyed with:

- only 12. position on UK charts (weakest higher place ever for CH after "Woodface" era), vanished after only few weeks from every chart in UK
- 1. and 3. position on Australian and N.Z. charts, but VANISHED OFF charts after only few weeks
- expected but not welcomed only 50th place on US charts
- not making impact on any european top 20 album charts except Greek, but ofcourse only for a week
- not one single got to any chart in the world
- no airplay of any single on any radio station in Europe, US and probably Australia (except Saturday sun on C list of BBC)
- views of first two (three) singles videos on Youtube are below 50.000 all together
- almost nobody except us fans knows anything about new album and fact that CH still exist, and they are pretty good, fabolous

All in all, yes, they really should be satisfiyed and proud with their new publisher/promotor UMG.

Joke on a side, I think that Neil and co. didnt react still on any move (unmove) of UMG because they are on pretty egsosting tour for a half year now and I think they havent got time to deal with promoting of album, except what they have already been doing; touring. But, I honesty hope that they will throw deal with UMG in the garbage, because this is pretty shamefull, even for smaller, not recognized, not so famous band with history of 120.000 people on one concert like CH has been.

Plus, I must say I played "Twice if youre lucky", together with such classics as DDIO, FAYF, WWY, FSIOD, ION and others to my several friends and most of them mostly enjoyed "Twice if youre lucky" saying that this is the best song of CH ever. So, if this is not going to be hit, I think we can thanks that only to "those people" from UMG.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Surely almost anywhere has got to be better than the 'people' they are with now


You're making the assumption that the band aren't happy with what UMG has done.

WE may not be happy because we hope for more commercial recognition for the band. THEY may be perfectly happy with the sales they've achieved.
I couldn't agree more. Neil has never been in control of CH's fate more than he is now; if UMG have failed the band, he has only himself to blame for choosing them.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Surely almost anywhere has got to be better than the 'people' they are with now


You're making the assumption that the band aren't happy with what UMG has done.

WE may not be happy because we hope for more commercial recognition for the band. THEY may be perfectly happy with the sales they've achieved.
I couldn't agree more. Neil has never been in control of CH's fate more than he is now; if UMG have failed the band, he has only himself to blame for choosing them.


I couldnt agree less. Neil is very intelligent human being and I am sure he didnt sign a deal with UMG just for crumbles like "relese record on time" and "entry to any store record in world". They had to offer something more to him, which they obviously didnt fulfill. It wouldnt be first time in history that publisher didnt do enough for his "protigee". And it wouldnt be first time that some musician left his publisher after short time. And he should, I know I would on his place.
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
- almost nobody except us fans knows anything about new album and fact that CH still exist, and they are pretty good, fabolous



(Yes I know I've done a fair bit of UMG bashing as well, but) I quite like that, Mariola, it means (generally) smaller concert venues, more tour dates, intimate solo shows......perhaps Neil doesn't want the same level of success (not that I think that would be achievable!) again, let's bear in mind why the band split in the first place. Hopefully he'll now concentrate on the Pajama Party album and perhaps a solo release over the next 12/18 months.

Perhaps also the wider public DO know CH exist, they just don't like them..........

Having said that - extractum digitum, UMG and get the live clip of TIYL up on the website at least (don't care about joe public (who probably couldn't care less) but us fans would like to see it!! Big Grin)
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
- almost nobody except us fans knows anything about new album and fact that CH still exist, and they are pretty good, fabolous



(Yes I know I've done a fair bit of UMG bashing as well, but) I quite like that, Mariola, it means (generally) smaller concert venues, more tour dates, intimate solo shows......perhaps Neil doesn't want the same level of success (not that I think that would be achievable!) again, let's bear in mind why the band split in the first place. Hopefully he'll now concentrate on the Pajama Party album and perhaps a solo release over the next 12/18 months.

Perhaps also the wider public DO know CH exist, they just don't like them..........

Having said that - extractum digitum, UMG and get the live clip of TIYL up on the website at least (don't care about joe public (who probably couldn't care less) but us fans would like to see it!! Big Grin)


Mostly agree with you, Bart; there is some special, intimate mood about small concert venues and all close and personal vibe about it. And, its true that we wouldnt have that if CH were Coldpay, for example. But, somehow, I really want to CH be recognized, its only natural for me to want to share this joyment of listenings CH with every beating heart in this planet. I couldnt help it, even if I want to. And, I can say that most people would at least like CH (if not love) if they have chance to hear it. As I said before, everyone I know not just like, but love "Twice if you are lucky".
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by BART:
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
- almost nobody except us fans knows anything about new album and fact that CH still exist, and they are pretty good, fabolous



(Yes I know I've done a fair bit of UMG bashing as well, but) I quite like that, Mariola, it means (generally) smaller concert venues, more tour dates, intimate solo shows......perhaps Neil doesn't want the same level of success (not that I think that would be achievable!) again, let's bear in mind why the band split in the first place. Hopefully he'll now concentrate on the Pajama Party album and perhaps a solo release over the next 12/18 months.

Perhaps also the wider public DO know CH exist, they just don't like them..........

Having said that - extractum digitum, UMG and get the live clip of TIYL up on the website at least (don't care about joe public (who probably couldn't care less) but us fans would like to see it!! Big Grin)


Mostly agree with you, Bart; there is some special, intimate mood about small concert venues and all close and personal vibe about it. And, its true that we wouldnt have that if CH were Coldpay, for example. But, somehow, I really want to CH be recognized, its only natural for me to want to share this joyment of listenings CH with every beating heart in this planet. I couldnt help it, even if I want to. And, I can say that most people would at least like CH (if not love) if they have chance to hear it. As I said before, everyone I know not just like, but love "Twice if you are lucky".
My best friend loves all kinds of music, and is, in general, pretty astute in terms of the things he likes. And CH bore him. If he doesn't like them - and he's nearly 50 - I'd say there will be plenty of folks out there who, for one reason or another, aren't swept away by their music. Most folks I know give it that "Yeah, it's nice, but it's not anything I find exciting..."; what can you do with that? I think CH are like vanilla ice cream; almost nobody hates it, but not everyone appreciates its subtle delights.
I would have thought that one of the JOBS of a record company was to help promote artists on their label and make the general public aware of their artist's new albums and concerts.


Or at the very least have the manners to reply to questions asked by paying customers

Neil and co deserve FAR better than the garbage 'job' UMG are doing
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
Most folks I know give it that "Yeah, it's nice, but it's not anything I find exciting..."; what can you do with that? I think CH are like vanilla ice cream; almost nobody hates it, but not everyone appreciates its subtle delights.


I can't relate to this analogy Adidasman, because what your saying is that CH is "beige music" but some people can't relate to the fact that it's not just plain magnolia, it's something more subtle (Barley white?? Wink) .

Well if that were true then I don't think that CH would have any problems getting airplay in the UK since our airwaves are dominated by a station (BBC Radio 2) which plays large quantities of "beige music" and people over here buy lots of beige style music, hence the unfathomable popularity of James Blunt and Take That. This IMO is beige music, easy on the ear, unchallenging and it gets lots airplay.

CH used to get quite a bit of airplay over here but, Finn music isn't as digestible as some other music, it often takes more than one or two listens to click and as we all know Intriguer has bombed over here in terms of radio airplay. I will be quite happy to eat my words if TIYL suddenly gets played 20 times a week but I'm not a fantasist.

So maybe CH isn't vanilla ice cream, maybe it's something a bit rarer, something less accessible that people might appreciate if they tried, a New Zealand fine wine maybe, to the uneducated palate it might taste just like plonk and some people might see nothing in it, but to those significant number who take the time......

I think I might open a bottle tonight Smiler


KB

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