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Thankyou Kittybear for the update

if you do get 100% confirmation can you let us know please and I shall make a few polite but 'strongly worded' (in the unimpressed sense) to certain people and places


Great work yet again UMG and offshoots


Mad Mad

oh, actually, I did email The BBC in the early days of TIYL to ask if they'd play it (they ignored me too)as have local radio stations here in OZ. If a band's OWN RECORD COMPANY won't support them, what chance in h*** do I have of making someone take notice. I won't quit trying thu

NEVER

All I can do right now is got hit the voting in the Rage top 50 again (thank heaven for Rage playing the clip!!)
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
oh, actually, I did email The BBC in the early days of TIYL to ask if they'd play it (they ignored me too)as have local radio stations here in OZ. If a band's OWN RECORD COMPANY won't support them, what chance in h*** do I have of making someone take notice. I won't quit trying thu

NEVER


I was sending in daily requests for TIYL to R2 until a short time ago, but I got concerned that a concerted email campaign like the one we did for ESOTW could damage TIYL chances (if these media types with big egos took umbrage at so many emails). I also thought that TIYL wouldn't need it, how wrong was I?
I'm assuming that if Neil was particularly bothered about pushing TIYL as a single he'd have made his opinion known by now.

At this point I don't really see the point of pushing any further singles. The album has been and done. It didn't do as well as many of us would have liked but there you go. It isn't the first CH album to pass over the heads of the UK record buying public and I doubt it'll be the last.

My only personal disappointment is that we didn't get any physical singles with B sides. That's half the fun of new albums.
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
The album has been and done.


I guess you're right, Paul.....time to move on, although Frenz in NZ have yet to see the 'Intriguer' shows (Auckland Town Hall, excepted!).

I'm hoping that the remaining tracks from the Intriguer sessions that haven't been made available (e.g. Lucky take 2, Only Way....etc) are kept for the new album, which if I understand correctly will be the next project Neil works on, apart from Pajama Party?

Be great to get a DVD release of the Auckland show - I'm assuming the whole show was filmed?
The thing is, I'm really interested in the difference between what we expected of a record company back in, say, the mid 90's and what we expect now.

Together Alone had a handful of singles taken from it and each one appeared in multiple formats with exclusive bonus tracks which enticed the hardcore to buy them. Consequently, they charted on first week of release and then subsequently vanished.

And never got played on the radio. But I don't recall anyone complaining. Maybe they felt that at least the record company had done something.

But, let's be honest here, She Called Up was issued as a single by EMI and failed to make the Top 75. That must tell UMG that they're wasting their time putting out physical product. It also tells radio that playing CH records isn't actually going to be that popular a move (unless, of course, we're talking about back catalogue hits). And if Ch didn't get much radio play in 1993 why should we feel aggrieved that they're not getting it now, 15 or so years after their heyday?

The only difference in strategy between EMI in 1993 and UMG now is that UMG have abandoned singles as loss leaders, and yet people are complaining bitterly about how UMG have abandoned the band.

I understand the frustration: I share it. TIYL is wonderful. In my world it would have sat atop the UK singles chart being joyously blasted out of radios across the land. But just because I like a song doens't mean everyone else is a fool because they don't.

Don't forget that UMG will have paid money to get Intriguer. They will have hoped for greater success and if they haven't worked it harder its because, quite frankly, they think they'd be wasting their time.

Regardless of the merits of Intriguer or TIYL, I'm inclined to agree. CH aren't a commercial band anymore; they sell to their dedicated following and that's about it.

I guess we'll see how happy CH are with UMG when it comes to releasing their next album...
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
CH aren't a commercial band anymore; they sell to their dedicated following and that's about it.


I agree, but good communication doesn't cost much, does it? Let fans (who are the only ones to buy your record, casual fans included) KNOW what gets released where and when. Pretty straightforward, and would dispel a lot of the frustration. At least in my case.
UMG ARE ignoring the band, regardless of anybody's opinion on if the singles are good enough/strong enough/your favourite song etc etc

Okay yes the put the album out. And that was about it. I'm sorry I for one do not believe that is where thier job ends


Did they give it proper promotion? no

was the album in good timing with the start of the tour ? no

was it promoted well enough on radio or tv? no

did they do anything at all about getting word out about the 3 'singles' No

Was the cd for sale at the Aussie concerts? No

Would many, many people even KNOW about Intriguer and the tour if not for Frenz forum and Crowded House HQ? My personal guess is No


was it for sale in stores the date it was suppose to be (it certainly was'nt in many of the stores in my area)


I ordered my record thu a site run by UMG.

It was 6 weeks longer than it stated on my order to be SENT. did they email me and tell me of the delay? No. Did they respond to emails from me asking about the hold up? No. did they eve say sorry about the delay when I did hear from someone? No


How many orders do you imagaine might have been canecelled for the record and/or cd with service like that?

I have said many many times they did'nt even bother to have The Crowdies on their A-Z artist list, one link that did say 'Crowded House' led to Robbie Williams and another to Emnem


Spot on thepearls and Andib, HOW are fans who are not Frenz meant to know? I've spoken to people I've met on the Aussie tour who are saying "wow where can I get these songs/I did'nt know they had a new album/are these off an EP/is the new album out soon?


Yep. Great job UMG. Great job
None of us here have any idea of the nature of CH's agreement with UMG. To slag off on them for not "doing their job" is pointless, really. If they felt there was money to be made by promoting Intriguer more extensively, you can be sure they would have done so. To resent them as if this were some sort of personal vendetta against "our boys" doesn't make any sense at all. Sorry, it just doesn't. This is like complaining that a teacher has some kind of axe to grind with your kid when he/she comes home with a C in chemistry. Maybe, just maybe, a C is all he/she deserved.
Just as you have your opinion dear adidasman I have mine.

And in my opinon UMG deserve to be 'slagged off'
I have not said anything about them here that is untrue nor do I believe they have a 'personal vendetta' against The Crowdies


I mean why would they bother with promoting Crowded House. They can make many many more millions with all the 'hot' talentless clones they have on their label. The flavour of the minute 'hip' artists that sell thru s*x and not anything real who will vanish without a trace.
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Just as you have your opinion dear adidasman I have mine.

And in my opinon UMG deserve to be 'slagged off'
I have not said anything about them here that is untrue nor do I believe they have a 'personal vendetta' against The Crowdies


I mean why would they bother with promoting Crowded House. They can make many many more millions with all the 'hot' talentless clones they have on their label. The flavour of the minute 'hip' artists that sell thru s*x and not anything real who will vanish without a trace.
Yes, Finngirl, we do both have opinions, and yours is every bit as valid as mine. (I do work for the ad agency that represents Concord and Fantasy here in the US, so I guess I might have a bit more understanding of all this than you do - but that's incidental, really.) I have to believe that UMG signed CH with some sort of plan in mind; they had to feel they were going to make money from the band. Now did they think the loyal CH fans would buy the album and no one else would care? Perhaps. Sales of ToE might have convinced them of that, and so that might have been all they were hoping to gain from being CH's label. What we don't know is what they promised to do for CH, and the only way you can say they didn't do their job is to know what that agreement is/was. So, despite the fact that we, as CH fans, feel that UMG has failed the band, only the band can say that with any degree of authority.
If I band I'm a fan of manages to somehow communicate to me that they have new material available, I feel their promotion was successful.

If this is as little as the band sending me an email announcing the release, I am satisfied.

There is too much music, and the music audience is too splintered, to expect everyone to be exposed to every release. It just can't happen. Am I aware of every Lady Gaga release? No. Do I care? No. Wink

I think CH is doing just fine. I don't understand why so many of you have your knickers in a twist over the promotion (or lack thereof) of Intriguer and its singles.

YOU know about it. Spread the word. That's how it works these days.
Just an update 'of sorts' from Sub Leo re: the live promo :

have thought about it and think that the live Twice clip is from the DVD that you get in the deluxe cd version, does that sound right?


My reply :

The only info. I have had re: live promo for Twice is from Peter Green @ the fan club & all he has said is he understands there will be a live promo.......so, it could be from the 'upstairs' DVD, might be from the Auckland show, might be the US tv clip - no idea!

I'm in a playful mood today, so I'll bite Smiler

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
UMG ARE ignoring the band, regardless of anybody's opinion on if the singles are good enough/strong enough/your favourite song etc etc

Okay yes the put the album out. And that was about it. I'm sorry I for one do not believe that is where thier job ends


It IS where their job ends if that was the agreement they signed with CH.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Did they give it proper promotion? no


Define "proper". I saw an ad on TV the week it came out. CH appeared on TV and radio to promote it.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
was the album in good timing with the start of the tour ? no


You're right, that was unfortunate. But you're assuming it was UMG's fault. I understand that this isn't, um, entirely the case.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
was it promoted well enough on radio or tv? no


Sure, UMG could have spent a fortune on adverts. But here in the UK, the TV advertising industry has been in freefall as audience share on individual commercial channels drops off. Put simply, I hardly see ANY TV ads for new albums beyond X Factor/Pop Idol. If a single advert on TV is going to cost, say £10,000, that's an awful lot of extra sales you have to generate in order to make it worthwhile. The days of record companies wilfully throwing money at everything are, I expect, long gone.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
did they do anything at all about getting word out about the 3 'singles' No


There haven't BEEN three singles to get word out about. Every CH song is available to buy on CD or download. There are no singles.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Was the cd for sale at the Aussie concerts? No


Fair point. But that's got nothing to do with UMG. That's entirely to do with the band.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
Would many, many people even KNOW about Intriguer and the tour if not for Frenz forum and Crowded House HQ? My personal guess is No


Possibly not. But again, this comes down to simple economics: UMG have obviously decided that the extra cost of expensive promo just won't be recouped by additional sales. That's an economic reality we just have to accept, like it or not.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
was it for sale in stores the date it was suppose to be (it certainly was'nt in many of the stores in my area)


I too struggled to find physical copies in store but surely that's to do with how many copies the stores chose to order? UMG may have had distribution issues but I can't imagine they deliberately decided to leave CH's new album off their delivery vans.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
I ordered my record thru a site run by UMG.

It was 6 weeks longer than it stated on my order to be SENT. did they email me and tell me of the delay? No. Did they respond to emails from me asking about the hold up? No. did they eve say sorry about the delay when I did hear from someone? No


That's poor. Really poor. No excuse. But again, I don't know how these things work so I don't know whether UMG would be directly responsible for the operation of the website and their dispatch mechanism.

quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
I have said many many times they did'nt even bother to have The Crowdies on their A-Z artist list, one link that did say 'Crowded House' led to Robbie Williams and another to Emnem


This is the biggest issue of them all really. And there's no excuse.

Finally, you ask "how will people know there's a new album out?"

Well, anyone who knew that CH were touring should have had an inkling that they might have had something new to sell. Few bands tour without SOME product to plug. Regardless, it's easier now than its EVER been to look for stuff.

Just go to Amazon/HMV/Marbecks etc and type "Crowded House" would soon bring up a list of all their albums.

Really, there's a very strong argument for not needing to do ANY advertising for established bands. The internet does it all. The only time you need to advertise really, is when you have a brand new band that no one has heard of.

Truly, I get your frustration. To a lesser degree, I share it. But I do wonder out loud if you're directing your frustration at the wrong people.

And, by the way, you're doing a great job flying the flag. Kudos to ya Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Finngirl:
UMG ARE ignoring the band, regardless of anybody's opinion on if the singles are good enough/strong enough/your favourite song etc etc

Okay yes the put the album out. And that was about it. I'm sorry I for one do not believe that is where thier job ends


Did they give it proper promotion? no

was the album in good timing with the start of the tour ? no

was it promoted well enough on radio or tv? no

did they do anything at all about getting word out about the 3 'singles' No

Was the cd for sale at the Aussie concerts? No

Would many, many people even KNOW about Intriguer and the tour if not for Frenz forum and Crowded House HQ? My personal guess is No


was it for sale in stores the date it was suppose to be (it certainly was'nt in many of the stores in my area)


I ordered my record thu a site run by UMG.

It was 6 weeks longer than it stated on my order to be SENT. did they email me and tell me of the delay? No. Did they respond to emails from me asking about the hold up? No. did they eve say sorry about the delay when I did hear from someone? No


How many orders do you imagaine might have been canecelled for the record and/or cd with service like that?

I have said many many times they did'nt even bother to have The Crowdies on their A-Z artist list, one link that did say 'Crowded House' led to Robbie Williams and another to Emnem


Spot on thepearls and Andib, HOW are fans who are not Frenz meant to know? I've spoken to people I've met on the Aussie tour who are saying "wow where can I get these songs/I did'nt know they had a new album/are these off an EP/is the new album out soon?


Yep. Great job UMG. Great job



Couldnt agree more with you Finngirl, you said it so clear and true without any sentiment and lousy compromise. Congratulation.

But, I am always sad to see that some people, even here, (I wont name them, they will find themselves alone) AlWAYS, in any case, in any chance defend; lousy work, "legal coruption", practice of ignoring people, practice of taking care only for direct profit, not even for indirect profit, nor for people, etc, etc. I really wonder if song "Archers arrows" isnt dedicated to them?

Anyway, I congratulation and thanking to any good soul here, speccialy Kittybear and Finngirl who really trying their best in practice to get promotion of CH in higher level. For all your letters to UMG and BBC it really has to be lot of patience and love for what you have been doing. Thank you for that!

So, if I may suggest one more thing; since there is no much point that I sending letters and calls from Croatia to BBC, I even cant listen them, but if I were from UK or USA, I would do next thing: from experience (I send tons of e-mails every week) I know that if you want to be heard and recognized among tons of e-mails that your recepient gets every day, it is best way first to CALL person you want to send an e-mail, and after speaking to him/her, you send an e-mail. Ofcourse, I dont suggest that someone from other continent to call someone from another, but someone from US can call this rellevant person in UMG. Then you will have much better chances to get answer on anything you wrote. And, ofcourse, I dont abolish by that acting of those person from UMG, they (she) should answer something after 46 e-mails. Its matter of personal attitude, its matter of condition of conciosness when human being lost his soul so he (she) is indiferent to anything and anyone. Only for direct profit he (she) isnt indiferent.
I suspect you're entirely right, Paul H: the 'old' model for promoting acts - tv ads, singles released to radio, tv spots and radio shows, has largely bit the dust. It's a fragmented market now and sales have plummeted across the board except for tv sponsored reality acts and acts aimed squarely at kids. There really is little or no cash to be made at hawking wares to those who already know it's out and will decide whether to buy it based on what they hear - very easy nowadays with the net. Most of us, after all, had heard the new songs months before they came out. 'Floating voters' who lack the sterling commitment many here have to the brand will either download it (often for free) or pass entirely. Physical sales are in the minority now, like it or not.

As for 'old' acts relaunching, how many here (beyond their own uber-fans) were aware of OMD's comeback album out recently?
Is it coincidence that they lacked a big marketing push too? What about the last Depeche Mode album? Peter Gabriel's? Divine Comedy's? The model we all knew from the 80s and 90s is dead, but acts are still out there and still making music, relying on tours and the net to inform potential consumers. Their fans are fully aware of them, and come out in their many thousands to see them live. Some buy the new stuff, some don't.

Somehow assuming that the many thousands of fans who attended CH gigs around the world but didn't buy the new CD weren't aware of new product seems perverse in the extreme. They knew, but didn't want to buy, for whatever reason. And assuming that anyone else outside of that demographic cares is a big call. One which any record company would be foolish to make in the current economic climate.

I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made with the marketing of the venture - it seems they have been - but I find it hard to see why anyone except the band and its most hardcore of fans would care. The very same hardcore do a great, tireless job in promoting the band but they have to realise that they are pushing at a market that just isn't there anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Cobardon:
I suspect you're entirely right, Paul H: the 'old' model for promoting acts - tv ads, singles released to radio, tv spots and radio shows, has largely bit the dust. It's a fragmented market now and sales have plummeted across the board except for tv sponsored reality acts and acts aimed squarely at kids. There really is little or no cash to be made at hawking wares to those who already know it's out and will decide whether to buy it based on what they hear - very easy nowadays with the net. Most of us, after all, had heard the new songs months before they came out. 'Floating voters' who lack the sterling commitment many here have to the brand will either download it (often for free) or pass entirely. Physical sales are in the minority now, like it or not.

As for 'old' acts relaunching, how many here (beyond their own uber-fans) were aware of OMD's comeback album out recently?
Is it coincidence that they lacked a big marketing push too? What about the last Depeche Mode album? Peter Gabriel's? Divine Comedy's? The model we all knew from the 80s and 90s is dead, but acts are still out there and still making music, relying on tours and the net to inform potential consumers. Their fans are fully aware of them, and come out in their many thousands to see them live. Some buy the new stuff, some don't.

Somehow assuming that the many thousands of fans who attended CH gigs around the world but didn't buy the new CD weren't aware of new product seems perverse in the extreme. They knew, but didn't want to buy, for whatever reason. And assuming that anyone else outside of that demographic cares is a big call. One which any record company would be foolish to make in the current economic climate.

I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made with the marketing of the venture - it seems they have been - but I find it hard to see why anyone except the band and its most hardcore of fans would care. The very same hardcore do a great, tireless job in promoting the band but they have to realise that they are pushing at a market that just isn't there anymore.



Well, Cobardon, I see your point and you got some things true, but: I dont know about OMD and "Divine comedys" (by the way "Divine comedys" never had a close high stars status as CH used to (2 years on UK charts with Woodface even after TA released, 120.000 crowd on Farewel concert, favorit Lady Di band, etc.,etc..), but as for P. Gabriel, his new album "Scrach my back" reached top 10 on almost every westeuropean national chart, canadian top 10, UK 12th, and US 26th, Independence US 3rd. Plus, I did hear one new single (dont know its name) several times in past few months on some croatian radio stations, while I didnt hear any of new songs from Intriguer on any croatin radio station.

As for Depeche modes "Sounds of universe", things are even better for them: it is on top 10 European Chart, they have been on every west and central european national chart on top 5 (including many 1st places), including Croatia 1st position. On UK they have been 2nd, and on almost every US chart on 1st position. And, ofcourse, their 1.st single from "Sounds.." named "Wrong" has over 4 millions views on Youtube. To compare with CHs "Saturday sun" only 50.000 views in not so shorter period. Plus fact that "Sounds of universe" was nominated for Grammys best alternative album in 2009., plus fact that Depeche on every concert has at least 10.000 people, including here in Croatia (I am not saying its a good thing, because I also like small vanues rather than big, its only for comparation here).

So, seems like these "old forces" pushing things just fine, even in these times of: QOUTE: "the 'old' model for promoting acts - tv ads, singles released to radio, tv spots and radio shows, has largely bit the dust. It's a fragmented market now and sales have plummeted across the board except for tv sponsored reality acts and acts aimed squarely at kids."

And you know why they are doing just fine? Because they HAVE good, capable menagment and they HAVE good publisher/promotor which actaully promote them and care about them, even in this times of "big changes in music industries" from 80s and 90s.
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
quote:
Originally posted by Cobardon:
I suspect you're entirely right, Paul H: the 'old' model for promoting acts - tv ads, singles released to radio, tv spots and radio shows, has largely bit the dust. It's a fragmented market now and sales have plummeted across the board except for tv sponsored reality acts and acts aimed squarely at kids. There really is little or no cash to be made at hawking wares to those who already know it's out and will decide whether to buy it based on what they hear - very easy nowadays with the net. Most of us, after all, had heard the new songs months before they came out. 'Floating voters' who lack the sterling commitment many here have to the brand will either download it (often for free) or pass entirely. Physical sales are in the minority now, like it or not.

As for 'old' acts relaunching, how many here (beyond their own uber-fans) were aware of OMD's comeback album out recently?
Is it coincidence that they lacked a big marketing push too? What about the last Depeche Mode album? Peter Gabriel's? Divine Comedy's? The model we all knew from the 80s and 90s is dead, but acts are still out there and still making music, relying on tours and the net to inform potential consumers. Their fans are fully aware of them, and come out in their many thousands to see them live. Some buy the new stuff, some don't.

Somehow assuming that the many thousands of fans who attended CH gigs around the world but didn't buy the new CD weren't aware of new product seems perverse in the extreme. They knew, but didn't want to buy, for whatever reason. And assuming that anyone else outside of that demographic cares is a big call. One which any record company would be foolish to make in the current economic climate.

I'm not saying mistakes haven't been made with the marketing of the venture - it seems they have been - but I find it hard to see why anyone except the band and its most hardcore of fans would care. The very same hardcore do a great, tireless job in promoting the band but they have to realise that they are pushing at a market that just isn't there anymore.



Well, Cobardon, I see your point and you got some things true, but: I dont know about OMD and "Divine comedys" (by the way "Divine comedys" never had a close high stars status as CH used to (2 years on UK charts with Woodface even after TA released, 120.000 crowd on Farewel concert, favorit Lady Di band, etc.,etc..), but as for P. Gabriel, his new album "Scrach my back" reached top 10 on almost every westeuropean national chart, canadian top 10, UK 12th, and US 26th, Independence US 3rd. Plus, I did hear one new single (dont know its name) several times in past few months on some croatian radio stations, while I didnt hear any of new songs from Intriguer on any croatin radio station.

As for Depeche modes "Sounds of universe", things are even better for them: it is on top 10 European Chart, they have been on every west and central european national chart on top 5 (including many 1st places), including Croatia 1st position. On UK they have been 2nd, and on almost every US chart on 1st position. And, ofcourse, their 1.st single from "Sounds.." named "Wrong" has over 4 millions views on Youtube. To compare with CHs "Saturday sun" only 50.000 views in not so shorter period. Plus fact that "Sounds of universe" was nominated for Grammys best alternative album in 2009., plus fact that Depeche on every concert has at least 10.000 people, including here in Croatia (I am not saying its a good thing, because I also like small vanues rather than big, its only for comparation here).

So, seems like these "old forces" pushing things just fine, even in these times of: QOUTE: "the 'old' model for promoting acts - tv ads, singles released to radio, tv spots and radio shows, has largely bit the dust. It's a fragmented market now and sales have plummeted across the board except for tv sponsored reality acts and acts aimed squarely at kids."

And you know why they are doing just fine? Because they HAVE good, capable menagment and they HAVE good publisher/promotor which actaully promote them and care about them, even in this times of "big changes in music industries" from 80s and 90s.


In the UK, Mode get virtually no radio play at all (except their old hits of course), and to my knowledge their other media appearances were pretty much equivalent to CH (except that they didn't get an hour long special on Radio 2, unlike CH). So my point is that I don't see much of a difference in record company support in the UK at least. Just that the old fan base stayed with Mode, and not the House. Why that is, I'm not sure: perhaps it's because DM stayed together, maybe they had a bigger fan base in the first place, maybe the new records are simply liked more by the fans than the lukewarm reception both the new albums have had for CH.
quote:
Originally posted by Mariola:
And you know why they are doing just fine? Because they HAVE good, capable menagment and they HAVE good publisher/promotor which actaully promote them and care about them, even in this times of "big changes in music industries" from 80s and 90s.


This just sounds like sour grapes. I know NOTHING about CH's management and I know NOTHING about Depeche Mode's. I assume you don't either. And yet, apparently, their management must be WAY better than Crowded House's because they sell more albums.

You may be right. CH may have signed up with a rubbish management company and record label. Depeche Mode may have more money to spend on management and can afford a high profile company that can push them. Maybe CH decided they'd rather go low-key. Either way, I can't help thinking that management isn't the be-all and end-all of sales figures. Somewhere in there public appetite has to fit in.

As Cobardon notes, CH actually had better publicity in the UK than DM this time round. I've not heard a single new DM song on the radio (same for CH) and I've seen NO publicity. And yet they sold more.

You cannot pin this one on publicity/promotion.

I think somewhere our blind loyalty has left us, well, blinded to the reality that not everyone is a fan of Crowded House (even if they damn well should be Smiler ).
For what little it's worth, I think it's time to just "let it go." Ultimately, it's the band's responsibility, not their fans. It appears that CH are ready to move on and already planning on recording again early next year. Maybe the Intriguer has decided to go into hiding after apparent lack of commercial success and fan criticism this go around...
Yeah, this whole thread is just silly. It's one thing to comment on music; everyone can hear it and can determine how they feel about it. But chastising the record label or the band's management for what they have or haven't done - when none of us really have any clue as to what they were supposed to do or not do, or even what the band wanted them to do or not do - is just pointless. It feels sometimes like some of us want the band to be bigger so we can feel better about ourselves; you know, "I was a fan before all of you jumped on the bandwagon!," or "See? I've been telling you they're great for years - and now their album went to number one! I'm right, see??!!??" I know we all feel CH are a great band - and they ARE a great band - but their big successes on both sides of the Atlantic were, when it's all said and done, relatively short-lived. Time to accept them for what they are now - a fantastic live band with wonderful songs that appeal to a relatively select few. I suspect the band are more than OK with that - so why shouldn't we be? And why can't we accept the fact that Intriguer just isn't a commercial album? It just isn't. I suspect the band are also fine with that fact, and so we should be as well. Had they released Intriguer instead of Woodface back in 1990 or whatever it was, do you really think they'd have been as big as they were in the UK? Not a chance. That was an LP with several obvious singles; Intriguer, by comparison, has none. Can't we just be realistic about all this, instead of blaming UMG or the band's management?
quote:
Originally posted by thepearls42:
I dont think its silly if finngirl and kitty have spent time emailing,letter writing and un-twisting knickers! That probably earns them the right to comment
I understand and admire their passion. I just think emails and letters being written to radio stations and blame being placed at the feet of the record label or the management because a non-commercial record - released in a day when 50-something bands aren't exactly in vogue - isn't getting radio play and hasn't sold well seems futile at best. But that's my opinion. I don't intend to demean anyone, and I'm sorry if I have.
This all began because I wrote a positive and very congratulatory email to CH Management saying well done to Neil for winning the Q award for Classic Songwriter and suggesting that they might get some good publicity out of it.

They replied telling me about the single, advising that it would be released to RADIO in mid-November but that there wouldn't be a physical or digital single (other than what you can already get now), this single was designed for radio.

I (of course) passed this information onto the forum and shortly after the info also came out via Peter Green on a FOTE newsletter with the added detail that there would be two video clips for the song.

Well we waited and eventually an animated video clip arrived, but no live performance clip and no sign of anything on radio.

As I has stated previously I did nothing to try to promote the single with the BBC fearing that another email campaign might put their backs up (well it didn't seem to help with ESOTW did it?). But when we heard nothing I eventually began writing polite enquiries to the BBC using my past contact with them as a reference. It took some time but (unlike UMG) the BBC do not ignore correspondence as a matter of routine and it was from them I found out that they had not rejected TIYL because TIYL was (according to Mercury Music) not a single in the UK and therefore not eligible for playlisting. Therefore in this instance no one can cry foul of the BBC and talk of "legal corruption" because the BBC never got a chance to accept or reject TIYL to their playlist (nor did any other radio stations) because it was never made available to them by Mercury Music/UMG.

Now my question is this:

What sort of well established record company spends a lot of promotion money creating an expensive animated promo video for a song that they do not intend to promote?

CH management clearly understood that TIYL was going to be single that was for radio play, Mercury/UMG have paid for an expensive animated video but not made the track available to radio thereby scuppering any chance of the UK Christmas promotion for Intriguer.

I am willing to accept that SS and the initial poor timing of the UK promotion of Intriguer was an unfortunate accident caused by CH's sudden move to UMG.

I am prepared to accept that ESOTW was a poor choice of single, after all the BBC rejected it from their Radio 2 playlist.

But for the current situation I can find not excuse or reason, CH management clearly had an expectation that the record company has failed to meet and the result appears to be a catastrophic promotional failure at a time when the potential for record sales is at it's peak (i.e. Christmas).

Many of you have posted that the nature of single has changed and you are right, the single isn't a item Record Companies expect music lovers to buy anymore, instead they are mini-adverts and if they get accepted onto radio playlists these mini-adverts get churned out dozens of times weekly for about a month (a lot more than TV adverts). CH management clearly expected TIYL to be their radio advert for Intriguer in the run up to Christmas and UMG have failed them.
KB - my only thought is that perhaps the track is being released to radio in other countries (this being the reason for the promo)and it was never the intention to release the track in the UK?

However, now that the promo has been made, I would have thought it would make sense to try & get some airplay in the run up to Xmas - how many channels have we got all featuring the same old seasonal clips on high rotation?

However, this of course would involve further outlay, which the record company probably aren't prepared to commit to!
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
Yeah, this whole thread is just silly. It's one thing to comment on music; everyone can hear it and can determine how they feel about it. But chastising the record label or the band's management for what they have or haven't done - when none of us really have any clue as to what they were supposed to do or not do, or even what the band wanted them to do or not do - is just pointless. It feels sometimes like some of us want the band to be bigger so we can feel better about ourselves; you know, "I was a fan before all of you jumped on the bandwagon!," or "See? I've been telling you they're great for years - and now their album went to number one! I'm right, see??!!??" I know we all feel CH are a great band - and they ARE a great band - but their big successes on both sides of the Atlantic were, when it's all said and done, relatively short-lived. Time to accept them for what they are now - a fantastic live band with wonderful songs that appeal to a relatively select few. I suspect the band are more than OK with that - so why shouldn't we be? And why can't we accept the fact that Intriguer just isn't a commercial album? It just isn't. I suspect the band are also fine with that fact, and so we should be as well. Had they released Intriguer instead of Woodface back in 1990 or whatever it was, do you really think they'd have been as big as they were in the UK? Not a chance. That was an LP with several obvious singles; Intriguer, by comparison, has none. Can't we just be realistic about all this, instead of blaming UMG or the band's management?


I agree wholeheartedly.

quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
What sort of well established record company spends a lot of promotion money creating an expensive animated promo video for a song that they do not intend to promote?


Parlophone (an imprint of EMI). Paul McCartney has made dozens of videos for songs that were never issued as singles. The videos were never issued to MTV et al, they were just made as artistic exercises. I'll send you a list if you want Smiler
quote:
Parlophone (an imprint of EMI). Paul McCartney has made dozens of videos for songs that were never issued as singles. The videos were never issued to MTV et al, they were just made as artistic exercises. I'll send you a list if you want Smiler


Bart it would be lovely to think that UMG had money to waste making video's for artistic licence, but I doubt it?

Anyway that doesn't explain why CH management clearly thought the track was to be a radio promo and Mercury Music have clearly not delivered.

Outside the OZ/NZ, the UK is CH biggest market and video clip of the teddy bear in snow is very northern hemisphere in style so I'm not convinced this was only intended for OZ/NZ.
I agree. I think quite simply they just decided to cut their losses. It's a shame that TIYL never got a chance but then, I felt it was a shame that In My Command was never a single, that Even A Child was never a single etc etc.

It won't stop me from enjoying those songs, and it won't stop me from supporting whatever else comes our way. And I bet we both agree on that Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Paul H:
I agree. I think quite simply they just decided to cut their losses. It's a shame that TIYL never got a chance but then, I felt it was a shame that In My Command was never a single, that Even A Child was never a single etc etc.

It won't stop me from enjoying those songs, and it won't stop me from supporting whatever else comes our way. And I bet we both agree on that Smiler


Paul I can always find something I like/agree with in every post you make (even when you "come out" as a closet Rick Astley fan Wink)

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