Tim the Temp

I read in an interview with Nick Seymour that Tim was supposed to be a full member, like Mark Hart became some time later. Nick also said that he would have been more comfortable if Tim had been a one-off guest for the Woodface album (and tour).
At some point Neil and Tim were doing almost everything while recording Woodface, at some point replacing Paul Hester by a different drummer, Ricky Fataar.

I can't remember from which source this was, I think it was a interview from 1996... (mojo magazine?)

I'm sure the Something So Strong book has more info on this too.

I've tried to land my hands on a copy of "Something So Strong" to help me with some of my questions, but I have not been successful... yet.

Author Chris Bourke has copies of "Something So Strong" for sale. You can order online, email him or fax him. Details at www.somethingsostrong.com

Jaffa

The somethingsostrong.com website hasn't worked for me for a long time, and still doesn't. But Real Groovy in NZ has copies of the book available:

http://www.realgroovy.co.nz/index.asp?s=books&c=bookdetail&id=757511

Strange... the site's working for me.

The somethingsostrong.com address doesn't work for me either. I just get "This page cannot be displayed" message. However I was able to get the information from Real Groovy.

Thanx for the info... I'm getting paid this weekend SO I think I'll pick up a copy then.

quote:

Originally posted by Guy:
[qb] I read in an interview with Nick Seymour that Tim was supposed to be a full member, like Mark Hart became some time later. Nick also said that he would have been more comfortable if Tim had been a one-off guest for the Woodface album (and tour).
At some point Neil and Tim were doing almost everything while recording Woodface, at some point replacing Paul Hester by a different drummer, Ricky Fataar.

I can't remember from which source this was, I think it was a interview from 1996... (mojo magazine?) [/qb]

Hi Guy.

I remember reading what sounds like the same article. I must admit that I've really gone off Nick as a person. In that article he said some pretty off things about Tim, like how he didn't even like most of Tim's solo music. How he didn't see why Tim had to join the band and couldn't just guest on the album.

Nick seemed to like Tim's music just fine when Weather With You and Woodface Became CH's first single and album to make it big in the UK. Talk about ungrateful and being a hypocrite.

Nick's also said lots about Neil and how CH broke up and he's obviously the most bitter about it.

Ricky didn't replace Paul on WWY. Ricky played drums on it before it became a CH song. Ricky also drummed on All I Ask and There Goes God.

quote:

I must admit that I've really gone off Nick as a person. In that article he said some pretty off things about Tim, like how he didn't even like most of Tim's solo music. How he didn't see why Tim had to join the band and couldn't just guest on the album.

I'll have to disagree with you there. I don't have a problem with Nick's comments; I'm glad he could be truthful. After all, it was his band. Wasn't he fired (temporarily) before Woodface? If so, considering he was also the only non-Enz member of CH, I can see why he'd be a little insecure and/or territorial. It seems most of his bitterness comes from a lack of control in the group (including its end). I can't blame him for feeling that way.

WRT Tim's music, I'd also have to side with Nick. I love some of Tim's music, but there's quite a lot I don't like. OTOH, Neil's never written a song I don't like (well, not since he formed CH).

quote:

Originally posted by lavar78:
[qb]

quote:

I must admit that I've really gone off Nick as a person. In that article he said some pretty off things about Tim, like how he didn't even like most of Tim's solo music. How he didn't see why Tim had to join the band and couldn't just guest on the album.

I'll have to disagree with you there. I don't have a problem with Nick's comments; I'm glad he could be truthful. After all, it was his band. Wasn't he fired (temporarily) before Woodface? If so, considering he was also the only non-Enz member of CH, I can see why he'd be a little insecure and/or territorial. It seems most of his bitterness comes from a lack of control in the group (including its end). I can't blame him for feeling that way.

WRT Tim's music, I'd also have to side with Nick. I love some of Tim's music, but there's quite a lot I don't like. OTOH, Neil's never written a song I don't like (well, not since he formed CH). [/qb]

Well it's pretty easy for most people to be truthful and still be tactful. Sadly thats not an artform that Nick has mastered.

I'll have to disagree that CH was even partly Nicks band. Neil was always in total control. He hired Nick, fired Nick for a time, and only when Neil felt ready did he invite Nick back. When Tim joined, Nick and Paul didn't get a say in it, they were just told by Neil. CH breaking up wasn't a band decision, Neil just decided that was it and told the others.

Paul, Tim and even Mark were at least songwriters in their own right and all contributed to the writing and the bands overall sound. Nick was an exceptionally average bass player who in the bands eleven year career only co-wrote Recurring Dream way back in 85' and a couple of co-writes on TA.

By the way, how and why did Nick get a writing credit for Catherine Wheels. I'm sorry but adding a brief instrumental section at the end of a song shouldn't earn someone a co-write. It's a Neil and Tim's song, thats it.

Interesting point about Nick maybe feeling left out because he wasn't an ex enzer. To be honest, if I could choose between replacing Nick or Tim from CH, I'd pick Nick to go in a heart beat.

I'd also rate Bones Hillman, Mike Chunn and Nigel Griggs above Nick as bassists.

Nick's criticisms of Tim's music would carry more weight if Nick had ever written a song by himself. Instead of just riding the skirt tails of people like Neil and his brother Mark Seymour. With Marks songwriting and musical skills it'shard to beleive that ne and Nick are from the same gene pool.

quote:

I'll have to disagree that CH was even partly Nicks band. Neil was always in total control. He hired Nick, fired Nick for a time, and only when Neil felt ready did he invite Nick back. When Tim joined, Nick and Paul didn't get a say in it, they were just told by Neil. CH breaking up wasn't a band decision, Neil just decided that was it and told the others.

Don't you think that might not sit well with Nick? I agree with you in theory, but the truth of the matter is that it was Nick's band (as well as Paul's and Neil's). Neil was the unquestioned leader, but both Nick and Paul brought special things to the group besides technical prowess. Nick isn't the best bass player ever, but CH without Nick is definitely missing something -- especially on stage. The chemistry between the original three (both good and not-so-good) was a major part of CH. It's only human nature to resent someone coming in to your group and immediately having more power than you'll ever have. I agree that Nick isn't the most tactful guy, but I'd hardly call him a bad person for having some critical things to say.

quote:

Nick's criticisms of Tim's music would carry more weight if Nick had ever written a song by himself. Instead of just riding the skirt tails of people like Neil and his brother Mark Seymour. With Marks songwriting and musical skills it'shard to beleive that ne and Nick are from the same gene pool.

I vehemently disagree that one has to be a songwriter to know good songwriting (or, more appropriately, songwriting that he likes). Nick certainly knows enough about music.

As far as "Catherine Wheels" goes, the bottom line is that Nick did get a songwriting credit. I love the instrumental section (as well as the one in "Hole In The River"). I don't think Neil is the kind of guy to give out undeserved songwriting credits -- particularly to Nick.

I think you're being too hard on Nick. In the history of CH, Nick is the only member (besides Mark) who didn't give up on the group. Tim and Paul both left mid-tour. Neil dissolved the band. Nick's been there the whole time, he earned his right to have an opinion, and, IMO, he's a more integral part of CH than Tim or Mark ever were.

quote:

Originally posted by lavar78:
[qb]I think you're being too hard on Nick. In the history of CH, Nick is the only member (besides Mark) who didn't give up on the group. Tim and Paul both left mid-tour. Neil dissolved the band. Nick's been there the whole time, he earned his right to have an opinion, and, IMO, he's a more integral part of CH than Tim or Mark ever were. [/qb]

Of course Nick stayed in CH for as long as he could. To put it bluntly, Neil was his meal ticket.

Look at what everyone else has done since the crowdies broke up:

Tim's continued making great solo records and made that brilliant live album with Dave Dobbyn and Bic Runga. That tour was also the highest grossing tour in the history of NZ by both international and national acts.

Neil's established a highly acclaimed solo career, did that beautiful soundtrack to Rain and made a live album & DVD with members of The Smiths, Radiohead and Pearl Jam.

Mark Hart returned briefly to Supertramp and recorded his first solo album Nada Sonata.

Paul Hester recorded two EP's with Largest Living Things, had his own TV show "Hessies Shed" for two seasons and is putting the finishing touches as we speak to his first solo album.

And wheres Nick? The only thing I've heard was that he was laying down some bass tracks for an Andy White album. I wonder if Nick's forgotten about the ALT album?

Forgive the off topic, but I'll step up and defend free speech-

I'll agree with Mona here that this is not about bashing Nick. It's not even about what any member has done recently, although I'm sure Peter has covered Nick's activities far more than listed within this thread.

Because Nick had put 4 years of his life in to CH before Tim briefly entered the band, I would sure as hell hope he could say whatever he felt about the band. I don't blame him at all. He just spoke his mind. No crime there. About Nick's criticisms of Tim's music - it's just a matter of his personal opinion. We all have one, and we all don't need to write songs to voice it.

Tim's contributions were obviously very valuable to Woodface, and if you can get your hands on a copy of the Something So Strong book, it sheds light on why Tim joined, and why he left. If my memory serves me correctly, neither had anything to do with Nick whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by geddy:
[qb]if you can get your hands on a copy of the Something So Strong book, it sheds light on why Tim joined, and why he left. If my memory serves me correctly, neither had anything to do with Nick whatsoever. [/qb]

I never thought or said that Tim left the crowdies because of Nick. I was just commenting on the Nick interview that Guy mentioned afew posts back.

Awamutu, I wasn't trying to turn this into Nick bashing thread. Nor do I begrudge him the right to his opinion. But hes said some really bitter, nasty things.

In one interview hes saying he wishes Neil hadn't broken up the band because he felt they had at least one more great album in them. then about a month later hes talking to another journalist saying that CH only recorded three good or average songs and the rest were ****. Make up your mind mate?

my 2 cent -
I love Nick's bass playing. For me it's like hearing John Frusciante play the guitar - very fluid, groovy playing.

With regard to the Nick Article - it was Q118, June 1996 with Shaun Ryder on the cover.

As the CH turns, on this weeks episode...
It would be so boring if there weren't some hard feelings, bitterness, and he said she said.

Debating who contributed the most is missing the point! Part of what made CH so great was their collective charm and humour, the three of them together.

Nick and Paul contibuted extensively to CH's flambouyant personality. They seemed to bring out the best in Neil, and each other.

It wasn't just the music, it was the whole package that made CH so fab.

quote:

Originally posted by Iarla:
With regard to the Nick Article - it was Q118, June 1996 with Shaun Ryder on the cover.

Does anyone have this article? I'd love to read it in the wake of the reunion...

I'm not 100% sure if I have that issue or not, I'll check for you when I have a moment to search through 'the vault'

'Water Will Boil' - Pg. 219/220 from "Something So Strong"

11-5-91 Crowded House/Tim Finn press release -

By mutual agreement both parties have decided to go their own ways. It also states that both parites had been seperate entities prior to Woodface. It says that a 4 piece ensemble proved to be to restrictive. But that the Finn Bros. will work together again.

There's also a hurried interview, done the next day, with N.Z. journalist, Diana Balham, for 'Woman's Day' done in Dublin -

Neil states that he and Tim had written so many songs together at the time, that C.H. seemed the best vehicle for them. All was good in context, but that Tim could not handle a secondary role on tour and quite frankly wasn't performing at his best. Neil also goes on to say that the band was sucessful for 5 years prior to Tim's cameo.

I'm sure that the Byron Bay 8/13/92 punch from Neil to Tim's temple didn't help matters either.

That's on page 208! A must read!!