Skip to main content

I've been watching the Rockarena show a fair bit over the last few months and reminiscing on the early days and how, with a dearth of new material, the guys were forced to dip into Neil's Enz back catalogue. This allowed us to hear the old songs rejuvenated through the new CH filter. The most prominent example of this is, of course, I Walk Away. It happened again on Neil's solo tours and again on the Finn Bros tours. Which got me thinking, wouldn't it be great if the Crowdies did a tour whereby the entire set was comprised of Enz material? I can see 2 points of interest here:
1. We potentially get to hear some very old songs which (I suspect) few of us have heard live. Just imagine Crowdies doing Sweet Dreams, Lovey Dovey and Stranger Than Fiction in their trademark melodic style. Wicked!
2. The songs get the full Crowdies treatment and so will be unlike any other version of these songs we've heard before.

This tour could be followed up with (or run concurrently with ::gasp::) the corresponding Crowded House by Split Enz show.

In order to keep it interesting (and to evenly share the responsibility) I propose some rules:
1. The SEbCH set list must be entirely devoid of Neil's songs (that's too easy!)
2. Similarly, Tim's songs must be excluded from the CHbSE set list.
3. The Enz lineup must be pre-Neil. We can't risk Neil doing his own songs now, can we? Nor should we submit him to the demands of 2 tours.

So I've done this as a poll so it's kind of a petition (I know it's fruitless but, hey, we can dream).

Anybody want to kick off with proposed set lists?

__________________________ We're all God's children, and God is a woman, But we still don't know who the father is.

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Got a better idea. How about a night of Finn music covering Enz, Crowded House, solo etc? Is there one person on earth with a functioning set of ears that wouldn't be interested in that?

Split Enz "covering" Crowdies isn't so hard to imagine considering that half the band (Neil obviously, Tim and Eddie but live only) have played in CH anyway. Of course Paul played in both bands too. So not a great leap of concept there.

And Crowded House did on the occasion play Enz songs. Their version of "One Step Ahead" was great. "This Is Massive" was even better than the studio version in my opinion. So once again, that concept is not hard to imagine.
quote:
Originally posted by Dazz:
Got a better idea. How about a night of Finn music covering Enz, Crowded House, solo etc?

Meh, that's already been done. That's what the Finn show were after all.

What I'm talking about is SE has it's sound and CH has it's sound, so get each to do entirely the other. Previously in CH and Finn we've had Neil and Tim doing their own Enz songs. Now I'm saying, don't let them do that. Make Neil do Tim and Phils songs and vice versa.
I suppose it might be interesting for fans (at least some fans). But what's in it for Neil? You're going to "make" him do a full concert of songs that he didn't write? I don't see why this would appeal in any way to him (or to Nick, Mark, or Matt, for that matter).

For myself, I wouldn't want to see CH undertake a tour that would hamstring them in this way.
quote:
I don't want to hear ANYone sing "I Hope I Never", personally...ugh. Man, to my ears, most of the Tim-penned Enz stuff is just so inferior to the Neil/CH songs, it'd be a waste of a great band to have them out there doing "Straight Old Line" or something like that. Nein, danke.


Inferior?
INFERIOR!!!
Have you been smoking crack lately?
And by the way, Strait Old Line's a Neil song!
quote:
Originally posted by brinkerz:
Look out Stu!! Incoming !! Eeker Eeker

Haha. Duck and cover!

I'm genuinely surprised at the overwhelming opposition to this! I thought this was a pretty cool idea but, no, apparently it isn't.

In answer to some of the criticisms:
1. Why would Neil want to do this? Well, why did the NZ Symphony Orchestra do ENZSO? Why did Spiderbait, Grinspoon, The Living End et al do Stoneage Cameos? Why did Barnesy do Soul Deep? Because the music means something to them, because it influenced their lives and art and, above all, it's **FUN**!

2. It never occurred to me that the CH fans here would not also be Enz fans. For me, there's a clear progression from Enz to CH. As far as I'm concerned it's one continuous body of work, so Crowdies doing Enz makes perfect synergic sense to me.
SlickStu - I like that you focus on what the band wants. I agree that if the band thinks it's fun, they will try to do it. I just wonder if the members of Crowded House would feel pigeon holed by the premise.

Would they have room to segue into covers or sing their own songs? Here in the US, I still have to paint the Finn dots for the uninitiated as to who played in what band and when, who sang a particular song, and so on. Would this Crowded House tour of Split Enz material continue to confuse the general public? Probably.

You did re-ignite an idea I've had that for some time.

http://frenzforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7601061171/m/6121011654
quote:
Inferior?
INFERIOR!!!
Have you been smoking crack lately?
And by the way, Strait Old Line's a Neil song!


OK, OK. So I chose the wrong song to use as an example; I just recall Tim singing it in the video. (It's still a weak song.) And I will stick by my statement - Tim is an inferior songwriter to Neil, by a landslide. He's certainly written a few good ones, but the consistent brilliance of Neil's writing far outweighs Tim's few bright spots. And why would it be fun for anyone in CH other than Neil to relive Split Enz? He already gets to do it every few years; why do it with CH? It makes no sense to me on any level. As for the NZ Symphony doing Enzso...last time I checked, symphony orchestras typically make their living playing other peoples' material. CH make their living playing their own material. That analogy holds no water to me. Also, I would think Split Enz music means little or nothing to Matt or Mark; they're not Kiwis, they only have a connection to the Enz because of Neil. So why would they want to essentially be in a cover band for one whole tour? Ugh.

By the way, I don[t think any of this has to do with not being an Enz fan. I like Split Enz, though I think much of their stuff hasn't aged especially well (it's that novelty element that permeates so much of it); I find the CH stuff to be much more timeless and classic. I see the connection between the two bands and can appreciate it, but that doesn't mean I see the two groups as "one continuous body of work". To me , Neil flourished away from Tim - which is why I didn't like Tim in CH. The Enz were always Tim's band, he made sure of that; CH is Neil's band. So why would Neil want to use his band to exclusively play another band's songs, even if just for one tour? None of this makes any sense to me. Oh, well. Sorry if I'm stirring the pot. It's just what I do. No offense is meant to any of you who disagree with me (and I know you're out there!); I just don't get any of this.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
And why would it be fun for anyone in CH other than Neil to relive Split Enz? ..... So why would they want to essentially be in a cover band for one whole tour? Ugh.

Well, in a sense, Mark and Matt are already in a cover band, both are playing songs which were written by a band they had nothing to do with. Remember also that Mark was playing CH long before he officially joined and he's also toured extensively with Supertramp, another band of which he was neither a writing nor playing member. Incidentally, I doubt that Pearl Jam share your view. Vedder's admiration of Split Enz is well documented and he jumped at the chance to perform those songs a few years back, so I don't agree with your view that Nick, Mark and Matt would necessarily have no interest in those songs.

quote:
I like Split Enz, though I think much of their stuff hasn't aged especially well..... I find the CH stuff to be much more timeless and classic. I see the connection between the two bands and can appreciate it, but that doesn't mean I see the two groups as "one continuous body of work". To me , Neil flourished away from Tim - which is why I didn't like Tim in CH.

Nobody can deny that Neil has had greater success than Tim and, yes, it could be argued that this is due to a relative difference in songwriting talent (a highly subjective argument at that), but we should not discount Tim on this basis because you hold just about anybody up to Neil and they will pale by comparison. This doesn't diminish Tim's achievements, rather he just had the misfortune to have an extremely talented younger brother and is therefore forever doomed to comparison. No matter which way you cut it, Before And After and Tim Finn are great albums and for an example of pure 80's commercial pop, it doesn't come much better than Big Canoe. At the very least, Neil would not have the body of work he has today were it not for Tim's influence and of that we should be grateful.

The connection between Enz and Crowdies is clear. Neil was heavily influenced by Enz and eventually he would come to be the heavy influence of that band which would, in turn, influence CH. It's the perfect example of evolutionary theory, really. Sure, Mental Notes is nothing like Together Alone but take an intermediary like See Ya Round and the connection becomes clearer. Indeed, See Ya Round sounds like a CH demo tape. It is clearly one continuous body of work.

quote:
Sorry if I'm stirring the pot. It's just what I do. No offense is meant to any of you who disagree with me (and I know you're out there!); I just don't get any of this.

No problem here, man, it's all good. It's disagreements which make discussions interesting and frankly I wish there was more of it here. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
No offense is meant to any of you who disagree with me (and I know you're out there!)


Yeah, we are out here and we always will be, but.....you know what, actually, this one (me) just cannot be assed answering to yet another "Neil Is Better Than Tim" post in a thread that had no reference to that particular argument to begin with.......I'm over it......I'm done......carry on SlickStu with what I thought would be a fun thread.
Frowner
quote:
Originally posted by Kazzie:

Yeah, we are out here and we always will be, but.....you know what, actually, this one (me) just cannot be assed answering to yet another "Neil Is Better Than Tim" post in a thread that had no reference to that particular argument to begin with.......I'm over it......I'm done......carry on SlickStu with what I thought would be a fun thread.
Frowner


Hear hear Kazzie! I didn't participate for that very reason, but felt compelled to back you up this. The potential fun Stu obviously was getting at just went all intense and nit-picky. And how it devolved into Neil v. Tim is beyond me. That age old (and unfortunatley fan-driven Roll Eyes) contest is just tired.

For what it is worth, I think it is a crap idea as well. Just did not feel the need to go any further than voting. On ya for trying Stu Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Nothing Wrong With You:
I don't even understand the reasoning for starting this topic. It's like asking Wings to tour playing all Beatles songs...


More than that--it's like asking Wings to tour playing only Beatles songs by John, George, or Ringo. It's an awful idea. A one-shot concert might conceivably work, but a tour? No way.
I agree its a pretty weak idea. Both bands have separate vibes to their music and are their own respective entities. OK, CH covered a couple of ENZ songs early on when they only had one album's worth of material to promote but that was to be expected.

Neil Finn's Seven Worlds Collide and Finn Brothers concerts are the only real forum for mixing up a great selection from both bands.
I wasn't going out of my way to rehash ther Neil vs. Tim thing, regardless of what y'all might think. I just thought that this "CH Plays Tim's Split Enz Songs - On Tour!" was a bizarre suggestion, and I was a bit baffled as to why anyone would think Neil, Nick, Matt, and Mark would have any actual interest in doing that. (And I don't agree that Mark and Matt are already playing in a "cover band"; I doubt they see it that way.) I guess I might have taken SlickStu's post a bit too seriously, but it seemed he was presenting it that way; I guess I should have just said "I hate that idea" and shut up, eh? Ah, brevity is just not my strong suit.
quote:
No matter which way you cut it, Before And After and Tim Finn are great albums and for an example of pure 80's commercial pop, it doesn't come much better than Big Canoe. At the very least, Neil would not have the body of work he has today were it not for Tim's influence and of that we should be grateful.


For the record, I agree with you, SlickStu.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
No matter which way you cut it, Before And After and Tim Finn are great albums and for an example of pure 80's commercial pop, it doesn't come much better than Big Canoe. At the very least, Neil would not have the body of work he has today were it not for Tim's influence and of that we should be grateful.


For the record, I agree with you, SlickStu.


I'm pretty sure that Before & After and Tim Finn are actually really bad albums with a couple good songs on them. On B&A Songs like "Funny Way", "Can't Do Both", "Always Never Now", and "I Found It" are all unfortunate missteps into the realm of contemporary adult pop music that come off sounding like filler. Tim Finn has some very odd percussion choices (kinda sporadic drumming). "Tears Inside", "Birds Swim, Fish Fly", "Crescendo", and "Been There Done That" are all pretty weak tracks. The one thing that ties all Tim Finn albums from the 80's and 90's together is their ridiculously dated production. I don't have any idea how producer Mitchell Froom could go from making something as Timeless as Temple of Low Men to something as dated sounding as Tim Finn within the span of a year.

Split Enz was a stepping stone for Neil, a necessary evil, in a way, for Neil's music to find an audience. Indeed, I think Neil is lucky that an album like Conflicting Emotions didn't ruin his credibility as a songwriter forever (much like Big Canoe did to Tim-in a marketing sense). I don't know what happened to Neil's songwriting between the end of the Enz and the first CH record but I don't think it was in any way guaranteed (or even predictable) that Neil would come out of the Enz and write some of the best pop songs ever crafted.

Thinking about it now it strikes me as a very odd dichotomy that the thing which saved Split Enz was the same thing that eventually killed them. Neil's poppy songwriting gave the Enz the success they needed to continue on but it also seemed to spark a sort of hit writing feud between he and Tim. Both brothers trying to write the best pop song and basically changing the band's entire artistic direction which ultimately lead the disillusionment of everyone involved.

To answer the first question, I would NOT care to hear the Enz covering CH or visa versa. A concert I would like to see, however, would be Neil and Tim together playing the best songs from every era of their long careers. I know we got a bit of that with the last Finn Brothers tour but they barely ever played a Tim song and the CH and SE selection left much to be desired.
Whoah there, Mr. Pineapple, them's hard words. I don't love every song on Before and After, but to call it a "really bad album with a couple of good songs" does seem to be stretching it a tad. I'm no fan of the album's early 90s-style AOR production. But there are many superb songs on Before and After that, if anything, have only grown on me through time -- Hit The Ground Running, Protected, In Love With It All, Persuasion, Many's The Time, to name just a handful. I kind of regard that album as Tim's "Time on Earth" (heck, even the cover is Time-themed): a departure from his old outfit's signature style, occasioned by a serious brush with grief and the vicissitudes of getting older. It speaks to me more than many of his albums with the Enz or with Neil do.

Anyway, to the thread topic: I don't think a Crowded House tour devoted to Split Enz songs is either likely or even desirable. But I'd love to see them sneak in a few more surprise Enz covers, especially stuff from the early years that might unexpectedly match the tone of Time on Earth. Another Great Divide is one such ... the lyrics are sophomorically "clever," but the mood of the song is so achingly poised between grief, longing and puzzlement, like People Are Like Suns or even A Sigh. (I can just imagine a medley of A Sigh and Another Great Divide ... thank goodness for iPods, which make such juxtapositions possible!)
Perhaps I was a bit harsh on B&A. Most of the songs you mentioned are really good ... though "Hit the Ground Running" is a little terrible ... sounds like some lyrics left over from the Big Canoe album (esp No Thunder-No Fire-No Rain). It's just that, despite having its highlights, when B&A is bad it's really quite awful.

I can't imagine "A Sigh" being in a medley with "Another Great Divide" but perhaps if they made that "A Sigh" dance remix somebody suggested it would work out ok. I like that you referred to AGD's lyrics as "sophomorically clever", that's the most accurate description of Phil Judd's lyrics I've ever read.
Well what can I say Mr Pineapple Head, I disagree in a most strenuous fashion. I've had all my Finn related albums on iTunes random play for a few weeks now and I'd say there are very few duds in all of it. And I'm particularly enjoying the Tim tracks which are coming up; I'm finding I'm enjoying them more now than ever. Incidentally, I can say exactly the same for Neil's solo stuff.
^ I'd pay to see that. But yeah, vegetables? No offense, but that is utterly pointless!

quote:
Originally posted by Sad Claude:
It's not going to happen so no point talking about it.

Haha, the number times that would have been used (incorrectly) throughout history....

It reminds me of that famous conversation between The Establishment and Galileo:-
Galileo: Gee wizz, you know what? I reckon that we may well discover that Copernicus' theory of heliocentric cosmology is indeed correct.
The Establishment: Nah, no point talking about that, Leo, that's never going to happen. No offense, mate, but that's a stupid idea.

Add Reply

Post
    All times London, UK.

    ©1998-Eternity, Frenz.com. All post content is the copyrighted work of the person who wrote it. Please don't copy, reproduce, or publish anything you see written here without the author's permission.
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×