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The time has come once again to ask if we should shut the forum down. There's very little activity. Few new people. Fewer returning people. Maybe 10 posts a month?

The fan club is closed.

I am wondering if we should just call this. I do pay for it out of my pocket, and I don't expect anybody to help with that, but it's a noticeable amount of money (over $1000 USD per year).

Anybody against this just going poof and disappearing into internet memories? I'm open to suggestions.



Last edited by Frenz Webmistress Deb
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Hi Debbie,

Thank you, first of all, for so many years of supporting this site.

I would love to see it continue. I'm old enough to prefer reading people's opinions, and seeing info, here than on Facebook! (although the Facebook fan pages can be great too)

Maybe people who are active on Facebook fan pages who are also here could encourage others to become active here?

I understand, however, if it has become a little too slow to warrant such a continued investment from yourself. You'd have nothing but my gratefulness for the good times on here if you decided to call it a day.

Hi Debbie.

I'm hugely grateful for all your hard work and money spent thru the decades keeping the forum alive. I'd be sad to see it go of course. But I guess it's a reality that more people post in the various Finn/Enz/Crowdies Facebook groups. If keeping the Frenz forum going is going to be a financial burden with diminishing returns then I certainly wouldn't blame you for letting it go.

What about a Frenz Of The Enz Facebook group so you could keep it alive in that way and anyone from the forums who wanted to stay connected could join? Would certainly be cheaper. Anyway just an idea.

Thanks. I am not sure that some FB people can convince people to change habits and be active here.

I think one good measure would be to check this post in a month. Did anybody respond other than two people? Without you asking them to come here and say something?

I'm part of some Discords, and I know that if they posted that they might shut the whole thing down, hundreds of people would notice and say something. How many will notice here if we don't broadcast this post and ask for feedback?

I deleted Facebook in early 2018, and you couldn't pay me to go back. If there is a Facebook group, and people are happy there, then maybe all of this has a home. Doesn't have to be run by me!

I hate Facebook too and don't wish anyone any time spent there! Deleting it made my life so much better in so many ways. I wrote and published four books!

I think we have to consider two things:

1. Is there anything from this site that people would want to refer back to? Or if it all went poof, that's really OK?

2. Where do people want to keep talking about this music? If we made a Discord, which costs me nothing, would that be OK?


I have multiple Discord servers now (on other topics), which we have locked down with some great bots. Nobody has targeted us yet! So I'm open to it since I've been having good experiences. And it's cheap.

I just heard back from the forum software company. They can export everything but I get a giant SQL file. I'd have to hire someone to make that web searchable or human usable. Which is unlikely.

So I think we have to imagine that if I close this down, I pay for a backup, but then I let it go.


I am not an avid poster, but have always been a wholly enthusiastic lurker. Maybe I am part of the problem. I check in a few times a week and around release/tour time, this forum is daily reading. I loathe social media and I would miss this place very much.

That being said, obviously it is  tremendously unfair to ask you to pay that amount of money to keep this place going. If there is a crowd(ed)-sourced fundraiser I would contribute in whatever way I could but I am sure there is a time element to this for you as well.

Whatever your decision, thank you. I don’t know you - but thank you.

First of all, nobody is 'the problem.' Please do NOT think that. This will happen to most bands and artists out there. They get older, don't do much or anything, and fans wonder how much there is to keep saying about them. Lurkers are always welcome!

I am not complaining that people here need to be more active. You're all using this the way you should be using it! It's just a question of cost. Peter used to give me stuff to auction, which took way too much time for me to set up, list, sell, ship, etc. But it paid for the forum. That hasn't happened for many years, and in fact, the last batch of stuff he sent me has been in a box in my storage for probably 12 years.

This forum costs me $1200 USD per year, and that's only because they were kind enough to keep me at the pricing I started with many many many years ago. Their new pricing is $1000/MONTH, and that would have shut us down (or moved us) immediately.

Making shirts means more time put in to design and handle those. My shirts on Redbubble make me around $4 per sale. So if I want to know that the next 2 years of the forum are paid, that's a lot of shirts to sell to get to $2400 in the bank.

Hi Debbie. I'd be sad to see the forum disappear. There's so much Finn-related information here... it's a great reference tool for fans. It's full of memories, stories and some fairly obscure information.

It is, in my opinion, a kinder, funnier, more relaxed and more wholesome type of forum than similar groups on Facebook.

However, I'm also a pragmatist. I know that times change, as do internet habits. I wouldn't begrudge you closing it down to save yourself some money. Unfortunately, I don't believe that enough people would be willing to pay a subscription to cover the cost - and you cannot be expected to run it as a charity.

Have you asked the Finns if they could throw a few dollars in your direction? (We already know that Neil is not a fan of modern social media - evidenced by closing down his Twitter account). They may have an interest in maintaining this resource for the fans.

Thanks. I haven't asked. But I think the fact that I've had no interaction with them basically ever (and I've been running this since 1996) is a bit of a sign. Nobody ever reached out to ask me about it, talk about it, offer anything, etc. So I don't think it's on their map.

The fan club is closed down. Peter said this is mine, and I can do what I want. He had no opinion, and he's not offering anything. I didn't ask nor did I expect anything.

It's been a charity for a really long time. Long enough that I probably could have bought a car for cash. So I must admit I just don't want to pay anymore, especially since I think that the usage here is quite low. Very few new accounts.

Yes, full of mostly great memories and a few bad ones!

Oh, my. I try to check the site every few days, but just saw this thread! I LOVE this site, but it HAS been so slow for the past couple of years, I can fully understand your point of view, Deb. I've tried to post when I think I have something worthwhile to say, but get discouraged when there is no response.

But I do love being able to search when I have questions about particular songs, etc., so I would really miss that, and it does pick up, however briefly, when new music or a tour comes around.

I was sad when the fan club shut down, even though I was not a member, just seemed like the end of an era. I guess everything runs it's course. I would be sad to see this forum go, but am so grateful for all the knowledge I've gained from it, and the friendliness of the posters here. It's been a special place, especially since I'm in the US and so few people even know who the FInns are. Nobody I know gets why their music is so special to me, but everyone here does.

I’d be very sad to see the forum disappear but equally I can fully understand that it’s unsustainable to fund something like this.  

There is such a lot of information and history in here that it’s a unique and invaluable source.  

If it has to be taken down, I’d definitely recommend keeping the data archived somewhere.  It will only be a matter of time until AI will be able to read the entire content of sites like this and draft it into a book.  

Bizarrely this is the first time I've checked out the forum for probably 10 years. I'm another who hates the feral nature of fb,  and the news of the physical release of the wonderful 92-94 albums, prompted me to look. Until last years tour I'd fallen a little out of love with Neil (and co's) recorded output. I'm very sad to see this question posted.  Just wanted to say a massive thanks for keeping it going all these years.  In younger years this used to be a daily look, although often as a lurker, but due to life and the change in Neil's musical direction slowly I drifted away.

$1000 a year is crazy, but it would be so so sad if a searchable record can't be saved,  but don't worry if you can't achieve that,  you brought hundreds, if not thousands together.  And many friendships and maybe a few babies would nneverhave existed without your hard work, dedication and selflessness.  So thankyou, and make the right decision for you.

I definitely made some lifelong friends here! But that was so so so long ago.

We're looking into if a SQL database export here can be easily put on a website and searchable, but so far, that sounds like a no. It sounds like we'd first need to clean up the database (remove emails and birthdays), and then someone would have to write code to search it and return stuff.

Open to ideas!

Hi Deb,

Like so many others, I hate FB, check this site at least a couple of times each week (it is still one of my 4-5 most visited websites), and completely understand the burden of keeping this forum alive.

Realistically, is there not some way to monetize the site, maybe create some type of Frenz related marketplace or podcast? I’m happy to offer my time, and passion for all things Finn, and look into setting up a Frenz podcast, if it meant keeping this small (but mighty) community connected.

I would be saddened to see the site go.  I've been a lurker for many years, but a daily user.  This site is a sense of calm in a mad internet world.  It would be worth asking Team CH for support of some kind as it does provide valuable promotion and has demonstrated its dedication to quality for decades.  Run it up the flagpole.  it's where I learn what is going on.  The lack of posts don't bother me as they have a high quality percentage.  Thank you for your years of service!

Hello. I am wondering what you all think of this.

Essentially, the forum stays open and paid for if I can raise the money to pay for it. Because this is just really about money. You can tell I don't spend time on it anymore!

$2400 would keep it open 2 years. I could send an email to everybody who registered and gave an email that still works, and ask if they want to support keeping the forum open. 120 people giving $20 accomplish that.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Hello. I am wondering what you all think of this.

Essentially, the forum stays open and paid for if I can raise the money to pay for it. Because this is just really about money. You can tell I don't spend time on it anymore!

$2400 would keep it open 2 years. I could send an email to everybody who registered and gave an email that still works, and ask if they want to support keeping the forum open. 120 people giving $20 accomplish that.

Thoughts? Thanks.

Donation made! :-)

Last edited by Weightless Astronaut

Hi Debbie,

Thank you for keeping the forum online for so long. It's still a highly valuable online resource with its searchable archive of discussions and information from the last two and a half decades.

That sounds like a feasible way of raising the money. I'm not sure you'd get 120 people responding, but maybe some of us could chip in a bit extra if they wish to. I know I owe you for all I've got out of this place since I joined in 2000.


Last edited by Jaffaman

I check this site every day to have a read of what's new and so on. I have also noticed that there are not many posts these days due to lack of interest because the Enz Related Artists have disbanded & gone into retirement.

Back in 2018 when the Fanclub ended its run, it was no surprise because it just was not what it used to be when we had plenty of new releases, the hype surrounding the tours etc.

Even though I check the forum each day, my interest in the Enz & all other related artists has also declined which is why I have sold off most of my memorabilia collection.

It is just a sign of the times. These things don't last forever but it was good while it lasted. The recent 50th Anniversary of Split Enz was a sign of lack of interest. The same is happening to Crowded House, the hits are not there anymore. The albums are becoming less attractive. Billions of people from all over the globe have more important issues going on in their lives (cost of living & the current state of world affairs with a potential World War looming).

Sadly this site will close down, I am sure of that. But thanks anyway Deb for all your hard work.

Dear Deb,

I’m only an occasional visitor to the forum these days but, as an expat Kiwi in India, I still value it dearly as a way of connecting to an important part of my New Zealand heritage.  I shut down my Facebook account many years ago and never intend to return; this forum, therefore, remains my sole source of news about all things Finn.  I am deeply grateful for everything you do, and have done, to provide us with this home away from home.  

I totally get that the cost of maintaining the site is too much, especially with the scant traffic through the forum these days.  I hope that those of us who still give a s*** about it will get behind your campaign — though I suspect it’s probably a matter not of if, but of when, we’ll have to bid farewell to the forum forever.  With any luck, though, we’ll donate enough to see us through Crowded House’s forthcoming album at least.

Last edited by Watney Sideburns

Hey Deb - I echo the thoughts of all the previous posters. Really appreciate that you made this forum come into being and have financially supported it for all this time!

I first discovered your Enz website when the internet was this new cool thing that I could only access at university (geez that ages me now!!). I think you were the first person I ever communicated with over cyberspace (asking some lame question via the website that you happily responded to).

I remember when this forum was started and I switched over from The Tongue In the Mail. I lurked for years and years then eventually officially signed up and started posting.

I would miss the Forum if it just ceased to be but would also completely understand the decision. You shouldn’t have to continue to fund it.

I support the gofundme idea and have made a donation.  Hopefully we get 100+ people donating and it can stick around for a little bit longer


I admit that I don't remember to check the site anywhere near as often as I should. It's really a habit problem = not having a bookmark. If you do eventually shut down the forum, yes I would love a Frenz discord. Props to you for knowing how to keep those 'clean' via bots.

Request for clarification: you will get any donation we send your way regardless of whether we reach the total, right?

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