quote:
Originally posted by Catsister:
Why do I like it so much? Well, I'll tell you what I think are CH's weaknesses. I'm not a fan of sad, mopey songs, and later works by CH and Neil have them in abundance. (A Sigh, anyone?) Also, Neil's voice sometimes seems a bit harsh (although I consider him an excellent vocalist overall).

The harmonies on Woodface gave it a different sound, and the variety of songs, from novelty to cheerful to sad gave it a lightness and happiness not heard on later albums or on TOLM. It's not surprising it was their biggest hit album in England, and had they not made the stupid mistake of releasing an anti-American song during a time of patriotic fervor (Operation Desert Storm), it would have been a hit in the US, too.


Great post! Woodface isn't my favourite CH album, but I hadn't thought about this before, and I agree with it (aside from the not liking TOLM bit... Big Grin ). Thanks for sharing. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffR:
quote:
Originally posted by Catsister:
Why do I like it so much? Well, I'll tell you what I think are CH's weaknesses. I'm not a fan of sad, mopey songs, and later works by CH and Neil have them in abundance. (A Sigh, anyone?) Also, Neil's voice sometimes seems a bit harsh (although I consider him an excellent vocalist overall).

The harmonies on Woodface gave it a different sound, and the variety of songs, from novelty to cheerful to sad gave it a lightness and happiness not heard on later albums or on TOLM. It's not surprising it was their biggest hit album in England, and had they not made the stupid mistake of releasing an anti-American song during a time of patriotic fervor (Operation Desert Storm), it would have been a hit in the US, too.


Great post! Woodface isn't my favourite CH album, but I hadn't thought about this before, and I agree with it (aside from the not liking TOLM bit... Big Grin ). Thanks for sharing. Smiler
Funny that, as an American, I never heard CC as an anti-American song. One line in there about an excess of fat on some American bones - and anyone who's spent any time here knows that there is an excess of fat on most American bones! - hardly makes the song some sort of jingoistic diatribe against the US. The truth is that CH had two real hits here from the first record, then failed to repeat that success with TOLM; that took them off the radar as far as US radio was concerned. I don't think anything from Woodface would have been a significant hit here in the States at that point - that's just how radio is (or was) at that time. The US was more besotted with grunge at that point, and poppy, semi-satirical tunes about Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tammy Faye Bakker weren't exactly in vogue.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffR:
quote:
Originally posted by Catsister:
Why do I like it so much? Well, I'll tell you what I think are CH's weaknesses. I'm not a fan of sad, mopey songs, and later works by CH and Neil have them in abundance. (A Sigh, anyone?) Also, Neil's voice sometimes seems a bit harsh (although I consider him an excellent vocalist overall).

The harmonies on Woodface gave it a different sound, and the variety of songs, from novelty to cheerful to sad gave it a lightness and happiness not heard on later albums or on TOLM. It's not surprising it was their biggest hit album in England, and had they not made the stupid mistake of releasing an anti-American song during a time of patriotic fervor (Operation Desert Storm), it would have been a hit in the US, too.


Great post! Woodface isn't my favourite CH album, but I hadn't thought about this before, and I agree with it (aside from the not liking TOLM bit... Big Grin ). Thanks for sharing. Smiler
Funny that, as an American, I never heard CC as an anti-American song. One line in there about an excess of fat on some American bones - and anyone who's spent any time here knows that there is an excess of fat on most American bones! - hardly makes the song some sort of jingoistic diatribe against the US. The truth is that CH had two real hits here from the first record, then failed to repeat that success with TOLM; that took them off the radar as far as US radio was concerned. I don't think anything from Woodface would have been a significant hit here in the States at that point - that's just how radio is (or was) at that time. The US was more besotted with grunge at that point, and poppy, semi-satirical tunes about Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tammy Faye Bakker weren't exactly in vogue.


I gotta agree with this. I don't think a single American has ever been offended by "Chocolate Cake". I believe Chris Bourke pointed out in his book "Something So Strong" that Americans are just happy to be the center of attention. If nothing else, references to American pop culture are what helped the song make it to #1 on the alternative music charts (this was early days in alternative music and the charts didn't have the type of influence they later gained).

The problem with Woodface in the US is that it was just totally out of step with what radio was playing. At a different time, "Weather With You" could have easily been a hit in the US, but it just didn't fit with what the nation was listening to in 1991/1992.

Neil himself has said, you've got to have the right song, in the right place, at the right time. Most artists are lucky to hit that sweet spot once in their entire lives. Neil's managed to hit it a couple times and that's really quite an impressive feat!
I am not an american and I do love Chocolate Cake as a song. It was not a good choice of single however - a bit quirky and perhaps too different to the usual CH sound. Didnt do well in Oz either.

I take on board comments by other posters that CH were out of step with grunge etc which is what was dominating radio at the time. But I do believe that WWY was a good single in any market and it proved to be so in Oz, NZ, UK and much of Europe. The failure in the US I think, as others have said, really happened with TOLM which took CH off the radar.

I am still staggered that the record company could not get that album up. Better Be Home soon is a great single and very US friendly but I must admit after that there wasnt an obvious second choice. When You Come and Into Temptation are great songs but just dont sound like singles although I Feel Possesed has a very catchy chorus but was probably too understated.

I remember reading that Bruce Springsteen basically hassled the record company to get behind TOLM but to no avail.

Anyway Woodface was hardly a failure! Broke the band in Europe and is still regarded as CHs classic album, at least in Australia.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
One line in there about an excess of fat on some American bones...hardly makes the song some sort of jingoistic diatribe against the US.


I am not remotely offended by the song, but come on, it's obviously about America. The line you quote, which is the last verse line of the song, kind of blatantly confirms what was only strongly implied up until that point - the Elvis Presley line, the Tammy Faye reference, these are touchstones of American pop culture (Elvis still is, Tammy Faye was at the time). Apple pie would be more 'American' but Chocolate Cake works too, and makes for a better-sounding lyric.

I think the song unabashedly paints America as a place obsessed with dead celebrities, where people worship corrupt religious zealots married to women with plastic, painted faces; where rabid dogs wander and criminals zoom by in getaway cars, and everyone laps up facile, syrupy music after gossiping over the latest tabloid while lounging on their fat asses. It's a cartoonish, (mostly) unfair depiction, so I can see where someone might take offense, but I don't think anyone really did. The whole thing has an obvious winking, tongue-in-cheek vibe to it so the lyrics feel like crass satire rather than malicious.

But that's basically what the song is saying, and I don't think the Finns have ever said anything to contradict that. I don't think they actually think that about America, it's just a song - not Neil at least, since he expresses fondness for America in Once Removed. I'm not a Tim expert but his private, brooding, cerebral personality seems like the person you would stereotypically imagine as not liking America. But I don't know anything for sure, and to make that assumption would be rather...American of me. Wink
quote:
Originally posted by slowpogo:
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
One line in there about an excess of fat on some American bones...hardly makes the song some sort of jingoistic diatribe against the US.


I am not remotely offended by the song, but come on, it's obviously about America. The line you quote, which is the last verse line of the song, kind of blatantly confirms what was only strongly implied up until that point - the Elvis Presley line, the Tammy Faye reference, these are touchstones of American pop culture (Elvis still is, Tammy Faye was at the time). Apple pie would be more 'American' but Chocolate Cake works too, and makes for a better-sounding lyric.

I think the song unabashedly paints America as a place obsessed with dead celebrities, where people worship corrupt religious zealots married to women with plastic, painted faces; where rabid dogs wander and criminals zoom by in getaway cars, and everyone laps up facile, syrupy music after gossiping over the latest tabloid while lounging on their fat asses. It's a cartoonish, (mostly) unfair depiction, so I can see where someone might take offense, but I don't think anyone really did. The whole thing has an obvious winking, tongue-in-cheek vibe to it so the lyrics feel like crass satire rather than malicious.

But that's basically what the song is saying, and I don't think the Finns have ever said anything to contradict that. I don't think they actually think that about America, it's just a song - not Neil at least, since he expresses fondness for America in Once Removed. I'm not a Tim expert but his private, brooding, cerebral personality seems like the person you would stereotypically imagine as not liking America. But I don't know anything for sure, and to make that assumption would be rather...American of me. Wink
To me, the whole vibe of that song smacks of Tim's attitude, or Neil being influenced by Tim's attitude. The song is pretty cartoonish in its depiction of Americans - and you're right, the basic theme of the song is American-style silliness and overindulgence, but, to me, that doesn't make the song anti-American. I wouldn't necessarily agree with you that the song's characterization of the US is unfair; it's pretty spot-on as far as I'm concerned. But I do agree that it doesn't seem malicious or nasty. I always thought the whole anti-US thing was a convenient excuse to explain the song's failure on the charts here in the States - but it was doomed to fail regardless. If Better Be Home Soon wasn't going to be a Top 40 hit here, nothing from Woodface had a chance, either. CH's day in the sun was absurdly brief here, sad to say.
quote:
Originally posted by lavar78:
Of course, "Better Be Home Soon" just missed the Top 40 here.
Which, after DDIO had gone to number two, is a major failure. And everything else from TOLM did much worse.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
I wouldn't necessarily agree with you that the song's characterization of the US is unfair; it's pretty spot-on as far as I'm concerned.


I guess that might be an accurate depiction of some areas...I mean, go to a trailer park in Georgia, and that's probably what you'd encounter. But most of America isn't a trailer park in Georgia, which is why I say 'unfair.'

The funny thing is, although you can find candidates fairly easily at Walmart (seriously), I've never actually KNOWN someone who fits the stereotypical foreigner's view of an American. The saving grace of this place is its diversity. But this thread isn't about America, so sorry...darnit, now I'm demonstrating the American tendency to make everything about us. OK, I give up. We suck. Wink :/

I agree that it's all a too-convenient reason for Woodface's failure. If the album ever had a shot (and you're right, it probably didn't) the real culprits in foiling its success were Nirvana and Pearl Jam.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
Originally posted by lavar78:
Of course, "Better Be Home Soon" just missed the Top 40 here.
Which, after DDIO had gone to number two, is a major failure. And everything else from TOLM did much worse.

Actually, considering "World Where You Live" flopped after "Something So Strong" made the top 10, BBHS was something of a rebound (one that usually comes with a lead single off a new album).
I remember reading years ago that Chocolate Cake was the final nail in the coffin for Crowdies success in the US (or lack thereof rather).

As for the album as a whole, if it was done with vinyl sides of seven songs each, 'side 1' would far outweigh 'side 2'.

I find it hard to fault the first 8 tracks, but the rest of the album isn't as strong. Except maybe How Will You Go. Italian Plastic is kinda naff (rhyming pathetic with pathetic?), but at the same time the lyric 'When you wake up with me, I'll be your glass of water' is quite inspired.
quote:
Originally posted by slowpogo:
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
I wouldn't necessarily agree with you that the song's characterization of the US is unfair; it's pretty spot-on as far as I'm concerned.


I guess that might be an accurate depiction of some areas...I mean, go to a trailer park in Georgia, and that's probably what you'd encounter. But most of America isn't a trailer park in Georgia, which is why I say 'unfair.'

The funny thing is, although you can find candidates fairly easily at Walmart (seriously), I've never actually KNOWN someone who fits the stereotypical foreigner's view of an American. The saving grace of this place is its diversity. But this thread isn't about America, so sorry...darnit, now I'm demonstrating the American tendency to make everything about us. OK, I give up. We suck. Wink :/
Oh, come now - you live in Wisconsin, for goodness' sake. I've been there. Many times. Go to the Mars Cheese Castle (Kenosha) and tell me CC isn't accurate. (This is not a shot at Wisconsinites; I happen to be very fond of Wisconsin.) Go to a tractor pull, a NASCAR event, a Home Town Buffet...take your pick. I don't know anyone who embodies all of the things foreigners ascribe to Americans, but I wouldn't have any trouble creating that hideous beast if you let me choose 10 people randomly at a K-Mart or truck stop anywhere in the US. I would never say all Americans - or even most - are that tacky, but, given the vast number of people this country holds, there are lots of them. Look at the guy burning Korans down in Florida, or at Charlie Sheen and the idiots paying good money to listen to him spew stupidity, and tell me you don't understand why the world sees us as they do...
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
I would never say all Americans - or even most - are that tacky, but, given the vast number of people this country holds, there are lots of them. Look at the guy burning Korans down in Florida, or at Charlie Sheen and the idiots paying good money to listen to him spew stupidity, and tell me you don't understand why the world sees us as they do...


I live in Madison, which is a very progressive, well-educated college town, so I actually am not exposed to any of that stuff (except, admittedly, at Walmart).

BUT what you are describing is not even unique to the US. Any time you venture into a country's rural areas, you find fundamentalism and ignorance. It's a socioeconomic fact wherever you go. This is why a place like Kabul would be relatively sane, if not for the desert-dwellers trying to blow it up.

I think what's more to blame is that a country tends to be defined by its loudest voices, whether or not they are representative. Yes, we have our fair share of ignorant buffoons, maybe even more than other places, but it's still not fair that they represent everyone. America is a cultural trend-setter (for better or worse) so these things get amplified beyond what is reality.

Although I'm maybe more optimistic than you are, I'm afraid I'm leaning in your direction more and more. We just elected a bunch of ridiculous governors who are doing terrible things in several states - none of them would win the election if it were held today, according to polls, but the Republicans/Tea Party are able to really tap into people's inherent suckerdom (I made up that word). This is how they've convinced millions upon millions that they should vote for a party whose policies are uniformly designed to help the richest 2% of the country, and do nothing at all for the average person.

Also, what holds America's collective fascination these days, according to the media? Yup, Charlie Sheen, escaped zoo cobras, terrible teen pop songs (Rebecca Black) and 'Snookie' (why does anyone even know who this person is?). My belief, or hope, is that this is more reflective of the media machine than reality. But it also may be why China is winning.
quote:
Originally posted by slowpogo:
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
I would never say all Americans - or even most - are that tacky, but, given the vast number of people this country holds, there are lots of them. Look at the guy burning Korans down in Florida, or at Charlie Sheen and the idiots paying good money to listen to him spew stupidity, and tell me you don't understand why the world sees us as they do...


I live in Madison, which is a very progressive, well-educated college town, so I actually am not exposed to any of that stuff (except, admittedly, at Walmart).

BUT what you are describing is not even unique to the US. Any time you venture into a country's rural areas, you find fundamentalism and ignorance. It's a socioeconomic fact wherever you go. This is why a place like Kabul would be relatively sane, if not for the desert-dwellers trying to blow it up.

I think what's more to blame is that a country tends to be defined by its loudest voices, whether or not they are representative. Yes, we have our fair share of ignorant buffoons, maybe even more than other places, but it's still not fair that they represent everyone. America is a cultural trend-setter (for better or worse) so these things get amplified beyond what is reality.

Although I'm maybe more optimistic than you are, I'm afraid I'm leaning in your direction more and more. We just elected a bunch of ridiculous governors who are doing terrible things in several states - none of them would win the election if it were held today, according to polls, but the Republicans/Tea Party are able to really tap into people's inherent suckerdom (I made up that word). This is how they've convinced millions upon millions that they should vote for a party whose policies are uniformly designed to help the richest 2% of the country, and do nothing at all for the average person.

Also, what holds America's collective fascination these days, according to the media? Yup, Charlie Sheen, escaped zoo cobras, terrible teen pop songs (Rebecca Black) and 'Snookie' (why does anyone even know who this person is?). My belief, or hope, is that this is more reflective of the media machine than reality. But it also may be why China is winning.
Ah, yes - the Berkeley of the Midwest. Wink Yeah, no doubt that Madison may seem a haven of intellectualism compared to, say, Rheinlander - but, if those folks are at your WalMart, they're all around you. They just don't buy coffee at your cool little shop near the campus, they buy it at Dunkin' Donuts. I do know what you mean about rural areas and all that, but ignorance isn't confined to the sticks; America tends to be fairly crass at all levels, if you ask me. Just check to see what's number one at the box office on any given weekend to see where the nation's moral and cultural compass resides. And I don't ascribe any of this to political ideology, as you seem to; the recent elections just show that people aren't really all that keen on either side, and are just going to keep voting one group out and another one in until things get fixed. Anyway, I still don't think the picture of the US painted by Chocolate Cake is terribly inaccurate; it's exaggerated, to be sure, but not by much.

I still don't really know who Snooki is. I praise God for this fact.
It sounds a bit like the U.K. and its love affair with Eastenders and reality t.v.

My claim to fame is never having seen an episode of Eastenders, and will proudly hail it from the highest mountain!!
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
And I don't ascribe any of this to political ideology, as you seem to; the recent elections just show that people aren't really all that keen on either side, and are just going to keep voting one group out and another one in until things get fixed.

I still don't really know who Snooki is. I praise God for this fact.


As for politics, my point is that people are convinced that those trying to fix the problems are responsible for them (Obamacare = socialism/Nazism/satanism/etc.), and that they should vote for those who actually cause the problem. I think it's a bit more telling, not to mention sad and sinister, than the 'politics as usual' way you describe it. Rallies of 100,000+ in Madison are not politics as usual. We're seeing Orwellian politics happen in a way we've never seen before, in places like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Florida. Anyway, I think it's arguable that all this could be connected to American ignorance, and fits the Chocolate Cake mould better than pop culture stuff.

As for Snooki, I'm not too aware either, beyond the basic facts, which I won't inflict upon you. Wink
If you guys want to fight about politics or make general assumptions about entire countries, please post that crap in Wanted2Say.

This is a topic about Woodface. Let's keep it on topic, or I'll happily close it.

Thanks.
I remember the original artwork for Woodface was to be a series of letters designed by Nick around kitchen implements. He did start them at the Shirley Grove house. Within a short time period they changed to metallic. For those who have our Wings Off Flies book check out page 48 the 3rd snap on the right is of Nick working on the Crowded House letters for the album.
Gryph
quote:
Originally posted by Scott_M:
I remember reading years ago that Chocolate Cake was the final nail in the coffin for Crowdies success in the US (or lack thereof rather).

As for the album as a whole, if it was done with vinyl sides of seven songs each, 'side 1' would far outweigh 'side 2'.

I find it hard to fault the first 8 tracks, but the rest of the album isn't as strong. Except maybe How Will You Go. Italian Plastic is kinda naff (rhyming pathetic with pathetic?), but at the same time the lyric 'When you wake up with me, I'll be your glass of water' is quite inspired.


Hmm well it was done on vinyl (and it is definitely worth seeking out) but I disagree that side 2 is poor in comparison- it often surprises me how many good songs they are lurking there...
Deb-

I'm the person who criticized "Chocolate Cake" as a poor single in 1991 originally. My intent was only to compare it to the soft rock songs out 20 years ago.

In 1991, the US had won a small war, Operation Desert Storm. Unlike the later war in Iraq still ongoing, most people supported this war. People flew flags, tied yellow ribbons around just about everything, and the radio played a lot of sentimental songs and videos for the troops. These were big hits. Pretend you are a radio programmer in 1991. Listen to "Rhythm of My Heart" or "From a Distance." Now listen to "Chocolate Cake" about how "Americans will sink like a stone." Still want to add it to your playlist? If it didn't offend Americans, it may be because only a handful of people heard it. As for CC being an alternative hit, I'm glad it was, but 1991 grunge is much, much harder rock. WF was not a grunge album. Someone who bought WF expecting hard satires would be put off by the softer love songs on side 2, wouldn't they?

I stand by my conviction that if FAYF were released first, it could have been played between "From a Distance" and "Bryan Adams sings about Robin Hood" and been a hit. Were there any radio stations that didn't give FAYF a fair chance because they didn't like the first song off that album? IDK, but I suspect. Chocolate Cake is a good song, but it's an album cut, and Crowded House was not well served by their marketing team. CC did not fit their "brand." DDIO, SSS and BBHS were all sensitive songs, sung by a kind "character." CC is a song making fun of middle class people for not being cool enough. Maybe it's a stretch to call it anti-American, but it is mean spirited.

I am saddened by some of the remarks that my small remark generated, especially those about Wal-mart shoppers and those who live in trailers. To look down on them is nothing but class snobbery--and very un-liberal.
Catsister, your post was public... not sure if you meant that.

I'm fine with people's opinions on the song. That's what this topic is/was about.

I don't need the topic to be liberal or not. But we have one main rule here: mutual respect. Anybody looking to bash any group, fellow fan, or country is just not OK here. So I swoop down and police it.

So just a reminder to people... mutual respect. We love your opinions. We love different opinions. But anybody who wants to talk politics, Walmart shoppers, Americans, or the like can please post that to Wanted2Say, where we allow pretty much anything that's not illegal to say.

Thanks. Smiler
I accept that either WWY or FAYF would have been superior first off singles from Woodface. Even ION would have been good.

I love CC but it was probably not the best choice. Where I disagree with the current debate is that I dont think it is, or ever was, a mean song. It is a satire on affluent western excess captured beautifully with the line 'Can I have another piece of Chocolate Cake..' America I guess is at the top of the tree in the West but really this song applies just as much to the affluence of Australians, Britons etc..

I am sure it was not meant to offend people directly and certainly not poor or disadvantaged people. But it was, like all good satire, meant to make us think. It has certainly achieved that!!
For what's it worth (for me) 'Chocolate Cake' is such a wonderful video clip (and I think our most expensive- was it really $200,000!!!!!???).

A chance for Paul in a dress as Mrs Hairylegs will always be one of 'those magical days' etched in the memories of the band & those of us on the set, where Hester just played the part so well... I think it was harder to get him to STOP being Mrs Hairylegs when the filming was completed. The 'wood painted suits" which we managed to save, we have the complete set... and the Brenda and Sally sewn stage costumes got an airing as well.

Nicks ex wife Brenda as the bug lady-looking like she escaped from the set of Star Trek Next Generation.... the band spending most of the day with their heads in the 'box' getting the 'shaking' right. The clip did indeed make it more surreal than satirical (which I think Tim pointed out a few times)

I remember Capitol really wanting "It's Only Natural' as the first single. In America a promo single of It's Only Natural WAS produced (DPRO79738) BEFORE Chocolate Cake was released-and it IS sticker tagged as FIRST Single from Woodface. Radio did receive these... but management/band changed their minds before it was in the stores- and it was switched to Chocolate Cake. So 2nd promo single went out in a very short time period and it became the first official single at record stores in America. Hale at Capitol Records was so good natured to what the band wanted and rolled with it.

I can't remember there being much interest around "Natural" from radio in America before it switched to "Chocolate Cake"- that simply could be that Capitol didn't have time to 'work it' at that level.

I do know that there were reports of 'Chocolate Cake' getting a lot of airplay in San Francisco and New York especially at Gay Dance venues (I am serious) not sure why! (Maybe Paul in a frock enticed the gay community! *GRIN*). I remember Chris from Pansy Division commenting how Woodface was one of his favourite albums for that year.

It made the top 20 in Australia (#20), #24 in Holland, I think #7 in NZ (that's from memory so I could be wrong), #69 UK I cant remember the USA chart, but it would of been towards the rear end of the chart..it was #2 on Billboards 'Modern Rock Tracks" chart though!

Gryph
Gryph I love your post! The Chocolate Cake video is one that always stands out in my memory for CH videos...again it may be Paul in the dress!
Very interesting that it was big on the gay scene though, they obviously grabbed hold of Mrs Hairy Legs and went with it! Big Grin
I just looked through our archives and found one of Capitol's promo items for the single.

The Crowded House- 'Chocolate Cake' mix. Yes a packet of 'Betty Crockers' Microrave Singles Cake mix with a pink promo sticker.

"Indulge yourself! Crowded House "Chocolate cake'- the first slice of the forthcoming album
Woodface.

"Open box, empty both mixes onto 5" platter. Add a dash of excitement and curiosity . Press play-let bake until your spirits rise-remove from platter. Immediately place on your play list"

"If you're got a sweet tooth for a hit song, this one takes the cake"!

Don't you miss the good old days of promotional goodies. I'm trying to think of even one item for 'Intriguer' and sadly can't.

Fun fun fun.
Gryph
I happened to catch the Chocolate Cake video on Saturday morning TV. It certainly grabbed my attention. I went out and bought Woodface on the strength of that video.I'd never heard of Crowded House but my interest was peaked and so began twenty years of fandom. Big Grin
Off topic, I know, but maybe a magnifying glass for Intriguer??? Wink
A teddy bear Sherlock Holmes??? Cool
I just love, love love the opening bars of Weather With You.
As soon as that goes on the radio, up goes the volume, no matter where I am...
I also recall that we had a lot of new members sign on for the Crowded House club around the time of Chocolate Cake- not sure why, possibly it was Tim's addition to the band and the extra media generated around that time.

For me Woodface just brings back memories of the Woodface Apartment at Murchison Street and moving in after the songs were penned at that wonderful little 2 deco block. It was certainly a magical time in many ways- and it 'felt' more like a 'band' (to me) having everyone in the same city.

Gryph
I always looked at as a "Crowded Enz" album - seeing that three of the members were from Split Enz. In a number of songs it reminded me of that. It's all good as they say. I don't think their albums can ever be too long.

It's my wife's favorite album because of how well Neil and Tim harmonize together! It's probably mine for the same reason, maybe. It's hard to pick a favorite when I like all of them! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Amon Sul:
I always looked at as a "Crowded Enz" album - seeing that three of the members were from Split Enz. In a number of songs it reminded me of that. It's all good as they say. I don't think their albums can ever be too long.

It's my wife's favorite album because of how well Neil and Tim harmonize together! It's probably mine for the same reason, maybe. It's hard to pick a favorite when I like all of them! Wink
Does Paul playing on one Enz album - and that being the one for which Tim wasn't a member - really qualify him as a "member" of Split Enz? To my mind, it doesn't. I personally don't see much direct Enz influence on Woodface, but, then again, I'm not nearly as much of an Enz fan as I am a CH fan.
No disrespect for Paul Hester-He was a great drummer, one of the very best and he pretty much made crowded house who they were, i mean, i always think of Paul Hester when i think of crowded house, but i really don't count him as an split enz member, (I am going to be killed for saying this!!) the gawdy "reunions" held through the years had painted him as someone who was part of the core line-up- that's not true and not fair to the likes of Emlynn Crowther, Mal Green and even Noel Crombie. I think them split enz reunions were really based on what Neil and Tim wanted to include. So for me, personally a split enz reunion would have to include EVERYONE who was a part of the band- past and present sort of like a "megaband" thing. Sorry.
quote:
If you contributed for a part of a band no matter how long duration, you were a member for that time.


Agreed. If one doesn't count Hessie, do you also not count guys like Wally Wilkinson, Miles Golding or Geoff Chunn?
quote:
Originally posted by Scott_M:
quote:
If you contributed for a part of a band no matter how long duration, you were a member for that time.


Agreed. If one doesn't count Hessie, do you also not count guys like Wally Wilkinson, Miles Golding or Geoff Chunn?
So, if Wally Wilkinson (whoever that is - I have no clue) put out a record and in the media kit he described himself as a "member of Split Enz," would you feel that was accurate?
Didn't Wally Wilkinson play on Mental Notes and he is on the cover? Miles Golding was there in the early days of the enz, so was geoff chunn, so they were members. Each person contributed in their own way to the band and thats what counts.
quote:
Originally posted by elena conway:
Didn't Wally Wilkinson play on Mental Notes and he is on the cover? Miles Golding was there in the early days of the enz, so was geoff chunn, so they were members. Each person contributed in their own way to the band and thats what counts.
That doesn't work for me. That's like calling Randy Jackson (of American Idol fame) a member of Journey because he played on one album and toured with them. To me, being considered a member of a band means making a significant contribution to the group's sound or presentation, and/or being with them for a substantial amount of time, not just filling a role for a record or two. But that's just my opinion. Tim Finn gets a special exemption as far as CH is concerned because he was involved in their recordings even when he wasn't a member, he still pops up and performs with them from time to time, and songs he co-wrote are still part of the band's live repertoire.
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So, if Wally Wilkinson (whoever that is - I have no clue) put out a record and in the media kit he described himself as a "member of Split Enz," would you feel that was accurate?


Not quite. If he put "Former member of Split Enz", then it'd be accurate. Because he is a former member.

I'm not 100% sure but I think the official members of Split Enz (such as it is) are currently Neil, Nigel, Eddie and Noel. Not sure about Tim since he quit, and subsequently got a 'Tim Finn Thanks' seperate to the 'Split Enz Thanks' in the liner notes for the Rootin' Tootin' Luton Tapes.

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