Recycling

Having finally been able to listen to Jane Maddick's "Am I Big Enough" (written by Tim) recently (thanks to an angel Smiler), I noticed how Tim recycled part of the melody for his own song "Rest" (the "Rest your weary head you 20th century" line).
Maybe it'll be interesting to collect information on the evolution of some songs in one place.

Michael
Original Post
This reminds me of a somewhat less friendly thread in WTS. But as long as we keep it nice.....ish. Wink
One of the most famous musical recyclers was Mozart. I used to roll my eyes at recognition of a favourite phrase. Who is to say that Mozart (without going into analysis, shall gladly leave that for those who get off on it, insert yawn emoticon) wasn't trying to say, "Remember this lil bit that y'all liked? (Eg: From Violin Concerto III in G) See what I've done with it now! ( Clarinet Concerto in A, making a passing comment into a recurrent theme.) And hey, it's his music!
Back in C20, the 1st few seconds of "Hypnotised" sound pretty much identical to the same portion of Judd's "Counting The Beat." Given that is is currently fashionable to dump on old Phil, I could point my finger and say, "Rip-off!" However, when musos jam together, I could see courtrooms crawling with the case of, "the bit that made the hit was MINE!" Big Grin
The most instantly recognisable of Tim's is a little section of melody from Remember When, Glide, Say It Is So, and it also appears quite subtly in the chorus of Can't Do Both.

Unsinkable started life as a demo in 1993 called He's in Love.

Funny Way and Not Made of Stone share the same chorus.

That's all I can think of for the moment.
Thanks to everyone who contributed!

aFINNity, whereas the thread in W2S was about plagiarism (I think), it's perfectly okay for Tim to re-utilize his own creations, so I hope there won't be any name calling here.

AGM155, that's an impressive list - while I knew about the Glide/Say It Is So connection, I hadn't realized about Remember When - and kudos for noticing the use of this little descending melody in a keyboard line in Can't Do Both (took me several listens just now)!

LOL David, sadly I haven't been able to find any information about Jane Maddick or the track in question, other than it was written by Tim.

Michael
Another couple that I remembered today:

The chorus of "Because She Loves It" (which is a Tim/Andy White co-write that appears on Andy's 'Teenage' Album) is also in the Before & After era B-Side "You've Changed"

Again from the Still Life Demos, the verse lyrics of the song One Side Only end up as the background sort of talking in the verses of Can't Do Both..."I want to go to Spain", etc.

The melody from Rest and also the Remember When/Glide, etc melody also appear in some of the children's songs Tim has done...I think they're both on the Magnificent Nose and Other Stories CD.
quote:
Originally posted by AGM155:
The most instantly recognisable of Tim's is a little section of melody from Remember When, Glide, Say It Is So, and it also appears quite subtly in the chorus of Can't Do Both.

Unsinkable started life as a demo in 1993 called He's in Love.

Tim confirmed in an interview circa:IK that the music for "Unsinkable" was in fact 20 year old. Was "He's In Love" the 1st lot of attributed lyrics?
And then there is the reuse of songtitles as album titles. Feeding the Gods named after a line in Some dumb reason on the album Say it is so, and the song Say it is so appears on Feeding the Gods. And then Imaginary Kingdom and the song Imaginary Kingdom on the following album the conversation. Whatever the next album of Tim is there should be a song named the Conversation on it.
Recycling of melodies is also something the french song writer Serge Gainsbourg is famous for. On the album Melody Nelson there are two songs with the exact same structure. And on L'homme avec un tete .. the first same songs are basically the same. Only different lyrics and feel.
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowman:
And then there is the reuse of songtitles as album titles. Feeding the Gods named after a line in Some dumb reason on the album Say it is so, and the song Say it is so appears on Feeding the Gods. And then Imaginary Kingdom and the song Imaginary Kingdom on the following album the conversation. Whatever the next album of Tim is there should be a song named the Conversation on it.

In the case of "Imaginary Kingdom", the song, Tim said it wasn't ready in time for the album of the same name. On the BJB Sessions DVD, Tim sings the "It's been so long"s, tagged on the end of, "I Hope I Never."
Smile of recognition, on hearing "Imaginary Kingdom" the song.
quote:
Originally posted by Fellschnuffel:
I noticed how Tim recycled part of the melody for his own song "Rest" (the "Rest your weary head you 20th century" line).
Michael


Bit of an understatement Michael. It's the entire melody that's been recycled. Just the words that are different. Does your copy say lyrics by Tim as well?

Hi all there!

 

Getting into a somewhat closer acquaintance with Tim’s music, I have the following correspondences to add to your list:

 

„Salt to the Sea” (Hester’s memory piece). A considerable part of this song must have been written much earlier than Imaginary Kingdom. A different version of the song appears on Wendy Matthews 1994 album, The Witness Tree, with a title „Standback”, a very interesting, gospel-like performance. All this, of course, doesn’t detract from Tim’s merit in dedicating a song, although in a rewritten form, to the memory of Paul.

 

„The Flavour of Forever”, a song from the 1987 movie La Donna della Luna (starring Greta Scacchi) has close resemblances, chiefly in the verses, to the song „Timmy” on Tim’s 1986 album, Big Canoe. There may have been a demo that found its way earlier to the movie than to the album? Or the song has been changed for the special purposes of the movie?

 

„Can’t Be Found” on Tim’s latest album, The View Is Worth The Climb must be a reworked version of his „Mockery / Making a Mockery” from 1992, with a different lyrics (perhaps due to his cowriting it with Azcona). This has already been mentioned, I think, in another thread of the forum.

Originally Posted by Fellschnuffel:
Having finally been able to listen to Jane Maddick's "Am I Big Enough" (written by Tim) recently (thanks to an angel Smiler), I noticed how Tim recycled part of the melody for his own song "Rest" (the "Rest your weary head you 20th century" line).
Maybe it'll be interesting to collect information on the evolution of some songs in one place.

Michael

I myself wishing to turn into an "angel"  somehow, now have ripped from the vinyl and share this rare piece on the following link:

 

http://audiour.com/playlist/f2qlpul5

 

Informations on the release are available at:

 

http://www.45cat.com/record/jmrs19881

 

Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Camus:

New Friends is either a recycle of Sunset Swim or an early version of it.

Camus, once you mentioned the correspondence of a Harlequin demo with one of the songs from Les Patterson. Could you precise it for me?

 

I had a listen to the demos and I've found certain suspicions but I'm not sure. Maybe "You And Your Long Lost Lover" and "Strange Weather"? The same key and style, at least.

 

Or "Clumsy" and "Everybody's Jumpy"? Although "Clumsy" has not remained only a demo but was also released on Corroboree. Still there is some resemblance.

The origin of the melody of Tim's "Rest" (1999) and "The Lullaby of Lonely Lions" (1994) as well as Jane Maddick's "Am I Big Enough" (1988) goes at least as far back as 1978, since it was played in the same form during the Nineez rehearsals. It also has some connections with the verse part of the Finn Brothers song "Disembodied Voices" (2004).

For a listen, see the link "Catherine Wheels/Disembodied Voices (early sketches)":

http://www.neilfinn.com/tha-nineez/

Now that the full album "Fiery Maze" is available, at least three recycling components can be added:

Like Janis > Clarity Begins At Home (White Cloud)

Ballarat > Unsinkable (Imaginary Kingdom)

This Moment > Say It Is So (Feeding The Gods)

This latter motif points as far back as Split Enz "Remember When" (1983), and coming back again and again in different forms.

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