Reading many people writing off Woodface as the Crowdies worst album, I'd like to pose a question to you all:
Would you prefer the Original Woodface to the Finn Bro Woodface?
Original Woodface was rejected by Capitol because it didn't have a single (the reason why the didn't particularly like TA).
The Track listing was something along the lines of this:
1 Whispers And Moans
2 Four Seasons In One Day
3 I Love You Dawn
4 Dr Livingston
5 She Goes On
6 Sacred Cow
7 Left Hand
8 Italian Plastic
9 She Goes On
10 Anyone Can Tell
11 Fall At Your Feet
12 Feilds Are Filled With Your Kind

Apparantley there were some real pearlers in there of now which we've all heard (I Love You Dawn, Dr L etc.) and then Feilds Are Filled With Your Kind, was said to be a personal favourite of some related in recording and should've found it's way on to the Woodface.

So - to all those who class Woodface as the band's worst album - what do you all think??
Original Post
Must say that I played this game when Afterglow came out - I compiled an MD of these tracks and gave it a spin and it sounded remarkably like Temple - which is my own personal fave. Need I say more?
I don't think I'd say Woodface is bad, but to me, I'm not as into it because it's too Beatles-y. Between the harmonies and major key melodies, it's just too Lennon/McCartney for me when I can get rather good Lennon/McCartney music straight from the source. Yes I think Woodface is very singable and all that, but to me again, it's not as varied or in some ways complex as the other albums. I like Whispers and Moans, As Sure As I Am, and How Will You Go, and can probably do without the whole rest of the album.

Deb
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I have been thinking about this recently.

I'd like to create my own version of Woodface V1.

Is the running order right here?

Also was the album originally going to be called Woodface or was there another title before that?
I think there's a whole lost album's worth of material between Temple and Woodface. I call that album Another World Waiting and it looks like this:

1. Recurring Dream
2. Sacred Cow
3. Anyone Can Tell
4. My Legs are Gone
5. Dr. Livingstone
6. I Love you Dawn
7. My Telly's Gone Bung
8. She's Not There
9. Left Hand
10. Time Immemorial
11. Lester (hidden track)

I think the album is a little thin like this. I hope to be able to flush it out a bit more if/when the CH box set ever comes out.

Personally, I love Woodface the way it is. I've tried dissecting it into a Finn Brothers album and a CH album but ultimately think it's the combination of the songs that make the album brilliant.
Woodface seems like the CH album the general public rates best. Whenever you see a CH album sneak into one of those Top X albums of the 90's/Australia/whatever lists, it's usually Woodface.

Fans tend to rate it lower though. I don't think it has anything to do with the songs - like every CH album (except maybe Intriguer) it has several out-of-the-park classic songs, and the rest are very good too. I think it's more about the production. It's very well-recorded, and Neil and Tim sing wonderfully, but it just doesn't sound like a BAND the way the other albums do. It sounds like a polished studio backing group more than a unique band. Most of the time, only Paul's recognizably quirky drums save it from being completely studio-generic.

That isn't to say there aren't fantastic moments. When "Whispers and Moans" first bursts into that chiming guitar solo (which leads into the first chorus), that's a soaring, gorgeous 30 seconds of music. There are many such moments, and the arrangements are all really good. You just don't get the impression of a band interacting with each other and creating spontaneous chemistry.

This all might make it more immediately appealing to the public (once they get past Chocolate Cake Wink) but a bit lightweight for fans.

Some of the outtakes from Woodface - in particular Sacred Cow, maybe Dr. Livingstone too - seem to sound much more like a band, like a logical progression from Temple of Low Men, with good spontaneous energy. Woodface works very well in its own way, but I would love to eventually be able to piece together the original albums. Hopefully the eventual box set (there's been a surge of interest in that lately, or is it just me?) will make that possible. For years I've wondered about "Fields are Filled With Your Kind".
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
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I have been thinking about this recently.

I'd like to create my own version of Woodface V1.

Is the running order right here?

Also was the album originally going to be called Woodface or was there another title before that?


KB, I have done the same thing on my Ipod. I've never heard another name mentioned, so I just call it "Original Third" (imaginative, huh?) In addition to the ones above, I included everything I have heard that was written during that period, that may have been considered. I don't know if I saw a running order somewhere, but I THINK I have at least the first dozen or so in an order I saw on another thread. Anyway, mine goes:
1. Whispers & Moans
2. Anyone Can Tell
3. Fall At Your Feet
4. Fame Is
5. Four Seasons In One Day
6. Left Hand
7. Dr. Livingston
8. As Sure As I Am
9. Italian Plastic
10. Sacred Cow
11. She Goes On
12. Convent Girls
13. Time Immemorial
14. My Legs Are Gone
15. My Telly's Gone Bung
and wish, wish, wish I had Fields Are Full of Your Kind. Sure hope Slowpogo is right about the surge of interest in the box set, but I'm not holding my breath.
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Shealy:
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
BUMP Smiler Smiler

I have been thinking about this recently.

I'd like to create my own version of Woodface V1.

Is the running order right here?

Also was the album originally going to be called Woodface or was there another title before that?


KB, I have done the same thing on my Ipod. I've never heard another name mentioned, so I just call it "Original Third" (imaginative, huh?) In addition to the ones above, I included everything I have heard that was written during that period, that may have been considered. I don't know if I saw a running order somewhere, but I THINK I have at least the first dozen or so in an order I saw on another thread. Anyway, mine goes:
1. Whispers & Moans
2. Anyone Can Tell
3. Fall At Your Feet
4. Fame Is
5. Four Seasons In One Day
6. Left Hand
7. Dr. Livingston
8. As Sure As I Am
9. Italian Plastic
10. Sacred Cow
11. She Goes On
12. Convent Girls
13. Time Immemorial
14. My Legs Are Gone
15. My Telly's Gone Bung
and wish, wish, wish I had Fields Are Full of Your Kind. Sure hope Slowpogo is right about the surge of interest in the box set, but I'm not holding my breath.


Why have you included FSI1D, isn't a Finn Bros Woodface version 2 song?
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Shealy:
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
BUMP Smiler Smiler

I have been thinking about this recently.

I'd like to create my own version of Woodface V1.

Is the running order right here?

Also was the album originally going to be called Woodface or was there another title before that?


KB, I have done the same thing on my Ipod. I've never heard another name mentioned, so I just call it "Original Third" (imaginative, huh?) In addition to the ones above, I included everything I have heard that was written during that period, that may have been considered. I don't know if I saw a running order somewhere, but I THINK I have at least the first dozen or so in an order I saw on another thread. Anyway, mine goes:
1. Whispers & Moans
2. Anyone Can Tell
3. Fall At Your Feet
4. Fame Is
5. Four Seasons In One Day
6. Left Hand
7. Dr. Livingston
8. As Sure As I Am
9. Italian Plastic
10. Sacred Cow
11. She Goes On
12. Convent Girls
13. Time Immemorial
14. My Legs Are Gone
15. My Telly's Gone Bung
and wish, wish, wish I had Fields Are Full of Your Kind. Sure hope Slowpogo is right about the surge of interest in the box set, but I'm not holding my breath.


Why have you included FSI1D, isn't a Finn Bros Woodface version 2 song?


Well, its been awhile, so its either an "oops", or I thought it was in the original lineup and stayed until version 2. No clue which.
Woodface is in Crowded House's top 3 imo.The only thing I think that's wrong with it is the running order,which doesn't really sound as if much thought has gone into - I'm sure this is not the case! The running order just makes it sound like a list of good songs/mostly singles rather than a cohesive album a la Together Alone.

I've listed my alternative one in another thread...

IMO just about every song on Woodface is superior to their TOLM counterparts(with the exception of Better Be Home Soon,which by the way to me always sounds better live.)

I like "I Love you Dawn" , "Time Immemorial" , "Sacred Cow" and "Doctor Livingstone" a lot, but it's worth remembering that as far as the band were concerned,Doctor Livingstone was just a bonus track on a CD single...

The other side of the coin is that I consider "Afterglow" to be pretty much as strong as all the other albums - better than TOLM actually.

I also don't see how sounding like the Beatles can possibly be a bad thing either Big Grin - as the likes of "It's Only Natural" most definatley does!
quote:
OPB sturatjb:

The other side of the coin is that I consider "Afterglow" to be pretty much as strong as all the other albums - better than TOLM actually


Better then TOLM?! Red Face Can't really follow you here! Tell me what is better than In To Temptation. I love some songs in Afterglow, but no one of these are better than Love This Life, Or When You Come, or I Feel Possessed or... OK, the whole album Wink

-
quote:
Convent Girls is from the Together Alone period.


That's interesting I thought the existence of the studio version would have been a demo recorded January 1992 along with Tail of a Comet, Same Language as Me and Dust from a Distant Sun. Didn't think Convent Girls got as far as the Kare Kare sessions.

Incidently didn't Paul's Worms and Pieces of Change eminate from the Woodface sessions?

There's lots of stuff left in the can from Woodface obviously Fields Are Full of Your Kind, I Can't Face It and the very blue Ugly Sheila from Paul. Wonder if we'll ever hear the vocal version of Zen Roxy!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Eudoxia:
quote:
OPB sturatjb:

The other side of the coin is that I consider "Afterglow" to be pretty much as strong as all the other albums - better than TOLM actually


Better then TOLM?! Red Face Can't really follow you here! Tell me what is better than In To Temptation. I love some songs in Afterglow, but no one of these are better than Love This Life, Or When You Come, or I Feel Possessed or... OK, the whole album Wink

-


Absolutley, thats opinions.I prefer You Can Touch to Into Temptation by a country mile.Although I like/love TOLM , it's my least favourite Crowdie album.

I always wondered if Zen Roxy morphed into Try Whistling This.There's a bit in the chord progressions in both songs that seem really similar.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaffaman:
Convent Girls is from the Together Alone period.
Are you sure? I always put this around 1989 to the time when Nick was sacked from the band. Which would explain why it's one of the rarest to appear on setlists.

I know original track lists  appear in various places for the rejected CH third album, but has there ever been a real or tentative tracklisting for what would have been the Finn Brother's first album that was then combined into Woodface? 

I don't think they ever got that far. If I recall - and Jeremy is the real expert here - they started sessions for the FB album (they'd recorded Weather With You, for example) when Neil had a fit of guilt about abandoning CH and, to cut a long story short, the FB sessions were abandoned in favour of Woodface.

I thought they made a go at a CH album, and FB was its own separate project just as Neil does separate things now, nothing was "abandoned." But they thought the CH album wasn't coming together strongly and thus decided to combine projects and have Tim join the band. That's how I've always understood it, as a very pragmatic, not emotionally-driven decision.

slowpogo posted:

I thought they made a go at a CH album, and FB was its own separate project just as Neil does separate things now, nothing was "abandoned." But they thought the CH album wasn't coming together strongly and thus decided to combine projects and have Tim join the band. That's how I've always understood it, as a very pragmatic, not emotionally-driven decision.

My recollection is that CH finished their album but the record company nixed it saying it wasn't commercial enough. Neil had been also working with Tim on a Finn Brothers albums and he asked Tim if their songs could be used for the Crowded House album. Tim agreed so long as he joined the band and the rest is history. Tim ended up leaving the band because of challenging stage dynamics.

  1. Whispers & Moans, Anyone Can Tell, Fall At Your Feet, Fame Is, Four Seasons In One Day, Left Hand
  2. Dr. Livingston, As Sure As I Am, Italian Plastic, Sacred Cow, She Goes On, Fields Are Full Of Your Kind

Has anybody else taken the now-completely-available song list and compiled their own "Original Woodface"? If so, what do you think?

Dorthonion posted:
  1. Whispers & Moans, Anyone Can Tell, Fall At Your Feet, Fame Is, Four Seasons In One Day, Left Hand
  2. Dr. Livingston, As Sure As I Am, Italian Plastic, Sacred Cow, She Goes On, Fields Are Full Of Your Kind

Has anybody else taken the now-completely-available song list and compiled their own "Original Woodface"? If so, what do you think?

I did this and it's really hard to try to listen to it with fresh ears. I'm so used to most of these songs trickling in from different eras in different contexts, but it's not as if there are any bad songs on it (though "Fame Is" was never a favorite and, I assume, used on the final album simply because it adds an uptempo dynamic to the album where they felt they needed it). 

That said, it certainly doesn't feel as strong an album as CH, TOLM, or the eventual Woodface, so the right choice was made, as far as I'm concerned. Luckily, we have can have our chocolate cake and eat it, too, by having the ability to hear the original album now in its completed form, as well as Woodface - and ALSO the opportunity to create a version of what would/might have been that first Finn Brothers album. So it's win-win-win!

Last edited by koabac

I'm reading through this thread trying to figure out the song list and order for the "Original Woodface".  Does anyone know what the song order was supposed to be?  Right now I have this as the song list/order.

  1. Whispers & Moans
  2. Anyone Can Tell
  3. Fall At Your Feet
  4. Fame Is
  5. Left Hand
  6. Dr. Livingston
  7. As Sure As I Am
  8. Italian Plastic
  9. Sacred Cow
  10. She Goes On
  11. Convent Girls
  12. Time Immemorial
  13. I Love You Dawn
  14. Fields Are Full of Your Kind

Woodface Crowdies worst album? Is that a joke? Story of Woodface is story that only life (or karma, or destiny, name it as you want) could write: one door is closed, just because the next door, much much wider door could be opened! Story of Neils succsesfull carreer in Europe and Aus. Turns out it was smartest publishers decision ever. For Neils luck, our luck, world music luck. What would be "first Woodface" without Weather with you, Its only natural and Fall at your feet as it sounds officialy? Commercially, most probably nothing. And I say it as someone who loves Afterglow. "First" Woodface would be just good album with some typical songs for that era, but without almost any classic timeless hit (except Four seasons). Woodface as we have is exciting pop rock record which was commercially sucsesfull with every wright, its full of energy, deep introspective and sometimes provocative lyrics (There Goes God), full of nice harmonies with more than few timeless classics (WWY, FAYF, ION, FSIOD). It has its parts maybe stronger than Together Alone itself, but as complete album is just somehow incohesive or maybe too long.

Jaffaman posted:

Neil, Tim and Nick talk about the decision to add the Finn Brothers tracks to the the Woodface album in Part 2 of the RNZ Woodface doco.

I listened to that interview. It pretty much sounds like it was all happening at once - that both CH and FB projects were moving forward in the same time period in staggered steps, with the CH album finished (and rejected) first. I'm curious, though, if it was still in 1989 when the company rejected the CH album. And at approximately what time of day did Neil get the phone call? And what were they wearing? And what was traffic like that day? And if God is all good and could only create good, then why is there evil in the world? This stuff was in the liner notes, right?

It was mid 1990 when the CH album was rejected. The proper CH sessions had begun in early 1990. (I'll reply to your private message soon, by the way.)

Jaffaman posted:

It was mid 1990 when the CH album was rejected. The proper CH sessions had begun in early 1990. (I'll reply to your private message soon, by the way.)

Early 1990's? I don't know why I find the puzzle of the Woodface saga so interesting, but what about the CH August-September 1989 Platinum Studios sessions? And who produced the original FB sessions 1989-1990 at Periscope Studios? Froom? And did Paul and Nick just overdub over the existing FB tracks (apart from the few songs that retained the original rhythm section)? If the CH album was rejected in mid-1990, it doesn't seem like enough time to re-record all the FB songs from scratch - yet there's a cohesiveness to the album between the original CH album tracks and the FB tracks. Also, if one of a pair of conjoined twins committed murder and the other twin had nothing to do with it - and if you separated them surgically, it would kill them both - how would you prosecute? 

Sugar Mouse posted:

I'm reading through this thread trying to figure out the song list and order for the "Original Woodface".  Does anyone know what the song order was supposed to be?  Right now I have this as the song list/order.

  1. Whispers & Moans
  2. Anyone Can Tell
  3. Fall At Your Feet
  4. Fame Is
  5. Left Hand
  6. Dr. Livingston
  7. As Sure As I Am
  8. Italian Plastic
  9. Sacred Cow
  10. She Goes On
  11. Convent Girls
  12. Time Immemorial
  13. I Love You Dawn
  14. Fields Are Full of Your Kind

I have no idea of running order, but Convent Girls was from Together Alone era. Jaffa has been firm on that, and the reissues bear it out.

Steve Shealy posted:
Sugar Mouse posted:

I'm reading through this thread trying to figure out the song list and order for the "Original Woodface".  Does anyone know what the song order was supposed to be?  Right now I have this as the song list/order.

  1. Whispers & Moans
  2. Anyone Can Tell
  3. Fall At Your Feet
  4. Fame Is
  5. Left Hand
  6. Dr. Livingston
  7. As Sure As I Am
  8. Italian Plastic
  9. Sacred Cow
  10. She Goes On
  11. Convent Girls
  12. Time Immemorial
  13. I Love You Dawn
  14. Fields Are Full of Your Kind

I have no idea of running order, but Convent Girls was from Together Alone era. Jaffa has been firm on that, and the reissues bear it out.

...the studio version also sounds much more like TA than Woodface, in my opinion.

Alright, so there seem to be different opinions what the original album was supposed to have looked like. As proof for my song list above, I offer this snapshot taken from p. 172 of Chris Bourke's "Something So Strong".

Face A and B of the 1990 Original Woodface Tape
Sides 1 and 2 of the Original 1990 Woodface tape

 

Thing is, that list is just a compilation of final and rough mixes. There's no confirmation that it was compiled with any sense that it would be the final running order. As you can see, all the final mixes appear first followed by the rough mixes so, if nothing else, it seems clear that it was merely a collection of all the stuff they'd recorded to that point.

It's possible that the order of the tape was a stab at a final (or at least, draft) running order but I don't think we can say it was for definite.

Last edited by Paul H

Well, I can read three posts that DO suggest it was the final running order, hence my observation. Apologies if everyone already considered it known.

Well, I've really confused myself. I've long had an "Original Third" album (see old post above) and a "Murchison Street" album (representing the demos that were supposed to be the Finn Brothers album) on my iPod. But I just realized Four Seasons In One Day is in both. And notice that it is in the above list from SSS, and the demo is on the deluxe disc with the grouping from the Brothers writing sessions (and it IS a co-write). So which is it? 

On a side note, where did Tall Trees come from? It is a co-write, but I've never heard of a demo, and never seen it listed in the tracks they were writing for the brothers album . Did it spring fully formed for the final Woodface track list?

What I'm attempting to do is wind up with three complete albums, "Original Third", "Original FB", and everything else from that time frame, either from Afterglow (Time Immemorial, Telly, etc.) or the deluxe tracks from Woodface. Would really help if I had Cemetery for the FB, and Flowers in Bloom and I Can't Face It for Leftovers (anybody know anything about these?).

Steve Shealy posted:

 

What I'm attempting to do is wind up with three complete albums, "Original Third", "Original FB", and everything else from that time frame, either from Afterglow (Time Immemorial, Telly, etc.) or the deluxe tracks from Woodface. Would really help if I had Cemetery for the FB, and Flowers in Bloom and I Can't Face It for Leftovers (anybody know anything about these?).

I don't know about Cemetery (hopefully it'll end up on The Kitchen Sink...). I'm fairly sure that Flowers in Bloom is just an alternative name for Fields. As for I Can't Face It, I have no idea about that song (Kitchen Sink maybe?)

I've always thought that Four Seasons in One Day was written by Neil/Tim in the "Original Finn" sessions. Was it actually a part of the "Original Woodface" sessions?

I've been reading through all these posts and I am also confused about "She Goes On".  Was "She Goes On" a part of the original Woodface sessions or the original Finn sessions?

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