brownie posted:

10 years ago, you would have been able to order the DVD from overseas and have it shipped anywhere in the world.  It’s unfortunate that streaming can be so restrictive.

That is indeed unfortunate. Technology is useful as long as it doesn't get in the way... At least on iTunes, these language restrictions do not apply to music releases. Surely releasing concert movies brings money on the table? The distributor seems to be missing a trick... 

I wound up not buying this when it came out, but watched it the last couple of nights when I came across it on Amazon. Very, very enjoyable. Maybe a bit too Wilco-centric at times, but it is clear that Tweedy, and all the rest, really, LOVE and appreciate the Finns for the experience. Thanks again, Jason, for putting this together, I thought you did a fine job.

Hey SNBAL,

Unfortunately the video was only released in English-speaking territories on iTunes and Amazon. As explained earlier in this thread, that's due to the distributor's translation / subtitle requirements. As far as I know, there are no plans to subtitle the concert film and expand the release on the current platforms. I'm also not aware of any plans to make the video available directly from Neil's website or You Tube account.

But speaking of YouTube, the concert video is also available via Google Play (which I believe is a cousin to YouTube). When go to this link for the trailer I see an option to buy or rent the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5W6NIBuWvE

That might be because I'm in the US, so I'm not sure if it will work in Spain, but I figured it's worth a shot.

Sorry that you're having difficulty.

I am also in Europe (in the Netherlands) and the link only shows that the video is not available. 

As said earlier in this thread, I'm quite disappointed that this film is not available in non-English speaking countries. And I don't buy the demand for subtitles to be honest. It's a concert movie. Who needs subtitles? There are loads of concert movies on iTunes without subtitles, that are still available in the Netherlands. Some random examples:

https://itunes.apple.com/nl/mo...rt-hall/id1414842279

https://itunes.apple.com/nl/mo...un-live/id1449915825

This really is missed opportunity and I would hate it if it is because the people in charge are simply not prepared to investigate the possibilities a little further. I'd have bought the movie in  a heartbeat. 

Jason Knox posted:

Hey SNBAL,

Unfortunately the video was only released in English-speaking territories on iTunes and Amazon. As explained earlier in this thread, that's due to the distributor's translation / subtitle requirements. As far as I know, there are no plans to subtitle the concert film and expand the release on the current platforms. I'm also not aware of any plans to make the video available directly from Neil's website or You Tube account.

But speaking of YouTube, the concert video is also available via Google Play (which I believe is a cousin to YouTube). When go to this link for the trailer I see an option to buy or rent the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5W6NIBuWvE

That might be because I'm in the US, so I'm not sure if it will work in Spain, but I figured it's worth a shot.

Sorry that you're having difficulty.

 the video is not available.

😰😰

Jason Knox posted:

I agree that it's silly that a concert film would need to be subtitled. I'll do what I can to look into it again and see what could be done to expand the release, but my powers are limited. I'd be a lame superhero.

Thank you so much Jason. I like lame superheroes! And sorry for shooting the messenger. I did also send an e-mail to Neil Finn (or, rather, to the address mentioned on his website), but got no reply. 

Fingers crossed!!

Update on the international availabilty:

The video should be available on iTunes in the coming days in every territory that includes a "Concert Film" category. No subtitles required. Amazon and Google availability will still be restricted to English-speaking territories only.

The Concert Film category loophole was something that we were just made aware of in the last week, so thank you for encouraging us to look into it further. Hopefully you should see it appear on iTunes in the coming days (assuming your country's store has a Concert Film category).

Enjoy, and thanks again for the constructive feedback!

Yeah - we just heard back from the distributor a couple of hours ago that they'd be flipping the switch to expand to additional territories, so it will likely take a little time to show up. I don't have any more details than that, so just keep checking - I'd be curious to know when it's finally showing up for you (obviously I can't see that from the US).

Just wanted to express my disappointment, as a fan, over this whole fiasco.

Despite the huge amount of love, effort and attention put into this release by @Jason Knox, there is still no way to legally own a digital or physical copy of this amazing work of art.

Sure, if you happen to live in the right country (or how what a VPN is) you might get lucky and be able to "rent" or "buy" a DRM-crippled stream from a closed off ecosystem (Apple, Amazon, Google). But doing so will prevent you (the paying customer) from downloading a copy of the file you paid for, which you can only access when signed in to said ecosystem via specific methods.

At this point I've accepted there's no chance of a DVD or blu-ray I can play (or rip to file) at my own leisure, but to not even have access to a digital file to archive to a digital collection and play at will is a bridge too far for this fan.

Clearly this is not a dig at Jason, Neil Finn, Jeff Tweedy, or anyone else involved in the Powerstation release. It's really just a commentary on the current state of digital media affairs, which is definitely not limited to this release.

I obviously don't advocate for piracy, but situations like this are the precise reason why others would be more than happy to go down that road, as it would literally (in theory) be the only way for a fan to own a copy of the concert. For the record I'm not suggesting it's even available via unofficial channels.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Yes, it’s a sad reality about discs these days. Every time I’ve brought up the possibility of a DVD (2016 Crowded House Deluxe Editions, Sydney Opera House 2016, 7 Worlds Collide at The Powerstation) I’ve been reminded by management, lawyers, and the record company that DVDs and Blu-Rays don’t sell anymore. They’re expensive to produce and so few people buy them. I know I’ve cut right back on my visual media purchases.

Yeah - we're definitely in the middle of a paradigm shift that started about 10+ years ago in both the music and film industries. That was probably the beginning of the end for our traditional idea of media "ownership", which can be especially difficult for those of us who grew up in the era of record and movie collections. I spent hours (days? weeks?) ripping both my CD and DVD collections to digital files that I could access from my iPod, iPad, etc. For a few years that was how I accessed my entertainment - loading actual files onto my devices.

However, in recent years I've converted to streaming probably 90% of my media consumption (via Netflix, HBO, Amazon, Apple Music, Spotify, etc). I appreciate the ability to access a lot of content without having to buy everything individually while still understanding the desire to "own" certain media that is special for some reason (favorite bands, favorite films, etc).

It brings to mind Sting's great bridge from  "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free":

"Forever conditioned to believe that we can't live
We can't live here and be happy with less
So many riches, so many souls
Everything we see we want to possess"

I've thought of those lines many times in my life when faced with my ingrained consumerist tendencies.

There's likely a long philisophical discussion to be had related to the pros and cons of different digital media distribution models. The small portion of that discussion that relates to this concert video is that it was something that was started years ago with no distribution plan in mind, and no intent for any great commercial gain. Once the film was done, Neil wanted to make it available to fans, so his team looked into the options that are currently available. Physical media (DVDs, BluRay) are a dying concept - especially for a niche release like this that likely isn't going to sell 50,000+ copies. I suppose one could make the case for selling the files via direct download from a website (ala buying independent music releases from Bandcamp) and maybe that will be an option at some point in the future, but for now I'm guessing that a lot of fans are actually happy they can view the concert for free on Amazon (assuming they have a Prime account) or rent / buy the platform video for a reasonable price.

I appreciate (and share) your passion for the music, Stew, and I completely understand the desire to own a digital file that you can move around at will. However, I think the release is far from a fiasco. It's been an opportunity for Neil to test out current distribution avenues that everybody is still trying to figure out, and I'm sure that he and his team will learn from the experience. Feedback like yours is important. For now, I hope you're able to enjoy the concert film without letting your frustrations about file ownership cloud the experience for you. We're all ephemeral... "streaming", so we might as well look for the good wherever we can find it for as long as we're lucky enough to be around for it.

I appreciate that DVD's en BR's don't sell anymore. That doesn't explain why digital distribution - even through iTunes and the likes - should be so complicated throughout Europe, where Neil Finn obviously has a lot of fans (outside of the UK). Crowded House have always been very popular in the Netherlands and I don't understand why the 2016 Sydney concert was never aired here (and/or is not made available through iTunes or something). But perhaps this 7 Worlds movie (that I really like so far!) will pave the way!

joepert posted:

I don't understand why the 2016 Sydney concert was never aired here (and/or is not made available through iTunes or something). 

I don’t know the answer to that. ABC in Australia did the deals with various outfits but maybe no one in your area wanted to buy it for their platform. 

Perhaps "fiasco" came across as a bit harsh. I was specifically referring to the availability of the channels it was released on, and my dealings with DRM eco-systems that don't support browsers and operating systems I use.

The release's production, editing, and the fact it came about at all, was far from a fiasco. Closer to a miracle and a fan's dream in fact!

I'm happy enough to leave physical discs in the past if I have to, and only ever play digital music and video files these days. 'Files' being the key word though, as opposed to "accessing DRM content" on services I don't want to sign up for. Having said that I do have a Spotify account haha. My Finn (and related artists) FLAC collection is my holy grail, and I too spent a lot of time ripping CDs, DVDs, converting, tagging and sorting this archive.

Loved reading your post by the way, and you made some great points.

I was somehow able to watch the concert early on via Amazon Prime, even though at the time I don't believe it was available to Australian customers. I think I might have signed up for a free month? But when I tried to watch it the next day I had no luck at all and believe something at the Amazon backend changed. From what I remember the concert was no longer available for me to even stream through my web browser and redirected me to the Australian version of Amazon. My memory is cloudy, but that was pretty much my experience. It looked amazing in 1080p HD too and I was even able to create a chart of who sung lead vocals (and wrote) each song.

Again, any issues I have isn't necessarily a major deal. I'm just a fan that doesn't really hold back with his opinion. Others may be happy enough to stream the concert if they're lucky enough. It just feels like perhaps a missed opportunity to sell a HD copy of the file to fans, or at least allow them to download it through one of the streaming services it was uploaded to. But I understand these options are currently beyond anyone's control.

Ironically, with a simple app, add-on, or browser bookmark, fans can download any video from YouTube in high resolution with a click of a button. This includes the likes of Neil Finn & Paul Kelly's brilliant two-and-a-half-hour Live at the Sydney Opera House concert in full 1080p HD (Note that this is a separate show to the CD / DVD / blu-ray).

But yet with other concerts released on Google Play, Amazon Prime and Apple iTunes, it's not even possible to pay for that kind of privilege, even if someone wanted to. I don't have the answers, I'm just throwing up points and creating a discussion.

I do like that when people like Phil Judd, Eddie Rayner and Pablo Vasquez (Elroy's classical band) release new albums fans are able to purchase high quality uncompressed FLAC copies from BandCamp / Reverb Nation. Further to what you said, I see no real reason why this type of service couldn't exist for visual content too. Hell, there are even methods to download audio tracks from SoundCloud if fans are persistent.

Tim Finn and Abi Tucker's The Fiery Maze soundtrack being "released" exclusively via Spotify / Google Play late last year frustrated a few fans who would have liked an actual copy of the songs. The same issue has come about recently with Elroy's new album, which I don't believe is (yet) available to purchase. Both of these albums ended up being uploaded to YouTube legally by the record labels / publisher. Therefore fans that want the music bad enough could technically find a way to save the files, proving that even paying Spotify subscribers could end up with a better product via a free unofficial method. Ironic, don't you think?

So very true @Jaffaman, and a point well made. I do enjoy collecting video releases where I can. This includes VHS, DVD and blu-rays. along with all those special edition bonus DVDs / CD-ROMs record labels included with album re-issues. Crowded House's Upstairs at Home (as an example) is a particular favourite. This was the limited edition DVD included with early copies or Intriguer.

But hey, the content is the most important thing, and if TV specials, visual radio performances and webcasts were available to purchase digitally I'd be more than happy to snap them up too. As long as the publisher can include a nice 2:3 digital cover (similar to what we got with Live at the Powerstation) I'd be a happy customer.

Hell, I'd happily create my own cover art if there was none available. A basic raw upload of a concert filmed from a smartphone, synced with an unmastered soundboard recording, would receive a nice thumbs up from me for a pretty $10

The whole thing around copyright and licensing is a tangled web too. Especially when there are many artists involved with one project. Each band or artist is represented by different labels and management. This might differ from country to country.

There can be many reasons why product isn’t available somewhere, even when it’s just a digital stream or download, and, more often than not not, we’re not  privy to that info. 

↑ This is true.

Most artists would love to make their content more available, but unfortunately they're often not the ones calling the shots. Some projects have been stuck in "developmental hell" for years.

At the end of the day, us Finn-related fans have had it great. The amount of material we've been blessed with just in the past 18 months is too long to even list. But I'm talking projects from 7 Worlds Collide, Neil & Liam Finn, Neil solo, Pablo Vasquez, Phil Judd, Tim Finn, Harper Finn, Fleetwood Mac, Elroy, etc. There's been digital singles, physical albums, live shows, music videos, 'Hidden Gems' performances, podcast interviews, radio sessions, etc.

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