This broke 10 days early ,  but here are a few words from Neil.  I know there will be a lot of comments , questions etc on this...  more to come. How exciting for him. 

"Two weeks ago I received a wonderful invitation to be a part of a truly great band. A few days later I was standing in a room playing music with Fleetwood Mac. It felt fresh and exciting, so many great songs, a spectacular rhythm section and 2 of the greatest voices ever. Best of all, we sounded good together. It was a natural fit. I can’t wait to play some more. " (NF) 

Original Post

Hello all---

My first response, I'm a little ashamed to admit, was "Ewww...!"

But now that I'm over the shock, I have to admit, it might be fun for a while.  I'm not particularly eager to hear Neil singing with Nicks, but I think he and Christine McVie would work well together.

I really don't expect that they'll let Neil do any of his material.  He's joining their band, after all.  With Mike Campbell also on board, I assume Neil is mostly involved for his singing and rhythm guitar work, with an occasional guitar solo in the mix.

But wow, what I would give to hear "Private Universe" with Mick, John, and Christine backing Neil up.

I figure Neil will duet with Christine on songs like "Don't Stop" and "World Turning," and he might sing lead on things like "Oh Well."  My hope is that they don't make him sing Lindsey songs.  That would just be sad, and besides, FM has plenty of non-LB songs they could do.

matt

This is a fascinating development. I have been waiting for Mick to drum on a Neil related album (it is still not clear if he might be playing on Light Sleeper or not) but never ever did I contemplate that Neil would join Fleetwood Mac as a touring member!

Personally, I love the idea.

I am a Fleetwood Mac fan and their legacy is far greater than just 1976 onwards. My guess (and it is only that) is that Lindsey may have thrown his toys when it was suggested that they do some of the pre 1976 era songs on the upcoming tour. 

This new line-up will actually provide more flexibility to open up their full back catalogue into their setlists.

I can't imagine them not doing Go Your Own Way, and it would be interesting to see Neil on vocals for that. Otherwise I can see Neil working really well on the likes of Don't Stop, World Turning and The Chain. Then it opens things up for Neil to sing some of the pre-Buckingham songs which would also work well. 

I do wonder what this means for Light Sleeper though. If that is still going to be released mid year, then this development rules out any chance of touring it off the back of the release. I just hope that this doesn't result in the release date moving further out.

This will be massive exposure for Neil and his music though. I'm sure there will be plenty of Fleetwood Mac fans who start exploring his back catalogue after seeing him in concert with them (or just hearing the news he is joining the band). If it weren't for ALT, I would have never become an Andy White or Hothouse Flowers fan. 

Quite a left turn, will be interesting to see how this plays out. Pretty much love everything Neil does, but honestly can’t see - and don’t want to see - him singing Lindsey Buckingham songs. I’ve loved Lindsey since his Buckingham Nicks days and no one can sing or play his songs like he does. He’s one of the greats, almost on par with Neil. Hopefully, Neil will go his own way (and not sing that song)...

Yes I managed to get the Peter Green line out of the way at 8.00 this morning while in the office. What a long day it has been.  I'm fascinated how this will turn out- love that Neil has such a vibe for it-the jam in Maui sounds like it was excellent. Maybe he'll add some fresh blood into Fleetwood Mac too seeing he is the whippersnapper of the band-just like joining Split Enz all over again (well not really).  Anything can happen. I applaud musical detours. 

It's exciting. I love Lyndsey's work  as much as the next guy, but someone has to fill in for a departed member, so why not Neil? He loves the songs, loves the band and sings better than ever. Boosts his profile worldwide, which means more audience for his future and past projects.

Maybe Mark Hart can back at him now for all those on stage Supertramp jibes.

It won't be the first time Neil's been on a tour with Stevie Nicks and Mike Campbell. Split Enz toured US and Canada with Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers in 1981.

Even now that I’ve slept on this news, it still isn’t making a lot of sense to me.

Why would Neil, creatively restless and one who loves to be in charge, join such a well known band as a hired hand for an extended period of time?

I’m not appalled by the news, but I’m not jumping for joy either.

I hate to admit that the idea of someone other than Lindsey singing Lindsey songs on stage with Fleetwood Mac makes me cringe a little bit, even if that someone is Neil.

No one can replace Lindsey in Fleetwood Mac, not even Neil.

I’ve been thinking more about this (while listening to Fleetwood Mac). 

I can completely understand why Neil wants to do this and is genuinely enthused with the concept. Neil loves music and he loves collaboration. I think he also enjoys being part of something that he doesn’t have to lead or control. He seemed to be in his element when Bic Runga toured Birds and he was on piano. He doesn’t actually get that sort of opportunity often. If jamming with the band in Maui felt musically right, I can completely see him wanting to explore it further. If it didn’t feel right, he would have walked away immediately.

The more I think about it, I doubt he will be asked to do many if any Lindsey Buckingham songs or that he will try to be a Lindsey replica. That’s not Neil’s style and I don’t think it’s what the band will be asking for.

Fleetwood Mac have a massive back catalogue. I think it would be wrong to play Buckingham songs if they have made the choice to fire him. Lindsey was a massive part of the band though and not just with regard to his songs but what he contributed to Christine and Stevie’s songs. I am a big fan of his songs and love his guitar playing but I’m not so much of a fan of his vocal contributions to the others’ songs (particularly live). 

I think Neil could actually be a better vocal match to Christine McVie’s songs (think Everywhere, Don’t Stop, Tell Me Lies, Hold Me etc...). Lindsey is that good that you do need two people to replace his guitar and vocal contributions on songs to do them justice. I do hope that it will be to replace and not replicate because replication is not in anybody’s  best interest.

Neil would also be great on The Chain and supporting Stevie on some of her songs..

The only Buckingham songs that I think may be included in the set list for Neil to sing are Go Your Own Way and Task. I’m still not sure if that would be right or not. I have no doubt Neil would do a great job but it would feel very strange. I definitely can’t imagine Big Love, Second Hand News, I Know I’m Not Wrong or I’m So Afraid etc... being in the set list. They simply shouldn’t be done without Lindsey.

Looking at a typical Fleetwood Mac setlist, there would usually be about 7 Buckingham songs. As mentioned, I could see them potentially keeping one or two because people will be expecting to hear them but replacing the others with an extra couple of Christine and Stevie songs and then freeing up some space for the Peter Green era for Neil to do vocals on.

It also wouldn’t surprise me if during rehearsals that they came up with a new song or two... Who knows where this might lead...

It does still all seem very surreal though...

As others have said, I also had to check the date of the article that I saw posted on Facebook to make sure that it wasn't posted on April 1st.

Perhaps Neil was jealous of Mark being a member of Supertramp, and thought he also could also be a dual-member of CH and a massive band from the 70's.

I'm not sure what to think about it but if it's going to be fun for Neil then sounds good to me. I'm not really one for nostalgia concerts so I won't be attending but I will be following this to see where it leads.

Sorry not excited at all... seems like a cash grab by Neil... very disappointing would much rather have him back with Crowded House or solo but I guess that's not where the $ is... I also think fans are totally mistaken if they think Neil is going to get a chance to place his songs - this will be a FLEETWOOD MAC hits money money money tour - wailt till you see the ticket prices... 

To me,

Sean Cronin posted:

Sorry not excited at all... seems like a cash grab by Neil... very disappointing would much rather have him back with Crowded House or solo but I guess that's not where the $ is... I also think fans are totally mistaken if they think Neil is going to get a chance to place his songs - this will be a FLEETWOOD MAC hits money money money tour - wailt till you see the ticket prices... 

To me, Neil's songs are a natural fit with many Fleetwood Mac songs with a common thread of melody and elegant songwriting. I suspect, they'll play a couple of Neil songs (perhaps Don't Dream It's Over and Private Universe) and they'll also play a couple of Tom Petty songs. Neil has always been a collaborator and adventurer and this is an exciting new venture to embrace.

slowpogo posted:
mattl posted:

My hope is that they don't make him sing Lindsey songs

um, that seems to be the exact reason he was hired. He and Campbell are replacing LB, Campbell presumably on lead guitar, Neil handling his vocals and secondary guitar.

Um, I didn't say he wouldn't sing Lindsey songs.  I said I hoped he wouldn't, because I think that would be a little sad.

I assumed that "Neil is mostly involved for his singing and rhythm guitar work, with an occasional guitar solo in the mix."  Clearly he was brought in to be the male voice accompanying Stevie and Christine.

I don't expect the band to play many LB songs.  Lindsey actually split from the FM previously in 1987 after the successful TANGO IN THE NIGHT record. Similarly to our recent news, the band replaced him with two guitarists, once of whom also sang. 

A quick look at the set lists from the 1988 tour shows only one true Lindsey song---"Go Your Own Way." [For the sake of clarity, I should note that "Blue Letter," though a cover song, was sung by Lindsey during his time in the band, and he also dueted on "Don't Stop," "The Chain," and "World Turning."]

So, it's possible that Neil will only have to sing one Lindsey song.  Mick Fleetwood stated : "We’ll be surprising our audiences with some tracks from our historic catalogue of songs." That had me thinking he plans to include some oldies like "Oh Well" or even "Black Magic Woman" or "Hypnotized."  Of course, he could just be referring to RUMOURS (again).

Finally, this is a pretty clever analysis of the situation (albeit with very little Neil content).

https://www.rollingstone.com/m...y-buckingham-w518935

matt

Sugar Mouse posted:

To me,

Sean Cronin posted:

Sorry not excited at all... seems like a cash grab by Neil... very disappointing would much rather have him back with Crowded House or solo but I guess that's not where the $ is... I also think fans are totally mistaken if they think Neil is going to get a chance to place his songs - this will be a FLEETWOOD MAC hits money money money tour - wailt till you see the ticket prices... 

To me, Neil's songs are a natural fit with many Fleetwood Mac songs with a common thread of melody and elegant songwriting. I suspect, they'll play a couple of Neil songs (perhaps Don't Dream It's Over and Private Universe) and they'll also play a couple of Tom Petty songs. Neil has always been a collaborator and adventurer and this is an exciting new venture to embrace.

"Private Universe" is one that I think would sound perfect with FM behind Neil (as long as Stevie doesn't sing, that is).

I remember playing "Instinct" for the drummer in my band back when RECURRING DREAM was released, and he listened to the opening and said, "Wow, is that a new Fleetwood Mac song? It sounds great."  Then Neil's voice came in, and my drummer was like, "What the...? Who's THAT?"

It's really hard for me to picture CH songs popping up in a FM set.  After all, Neil is joining their band.  Maybe he'll be given a shot at opening some of the shows so that he can spotlight his own catalog?

matt

Sean Cronin posted:

Sorry not excited at all... seems like a cash grab by Neil... 

Nah, Neil doesn’t need the cash that badly, to do something he didn’t really want to do. Why wouldn’t he be psyched to play with a classic band he loves? And we know he’s musically adventurous and happy to drift into whatever good opportunity presents itself. This totally fits his MO. I don’t really care about Fleetwood Mac but I’m happy for Neil. And surely the (probably massive) payout from this tour could fund very interesting future projects of his own. I see no reason to be cynical about this. I just hope it goes well and he’s treated alright by FM fans.

Can't say that I'm very excited about this, but if Neil enjoys it, good on him. Like MattL, I can't see CH songs being played; 98% of FM fans have probably never heard Private Universe.

The biggest upside of this, to me personally, would be for the work Neil did with Mick a couple of years ago to be revived and finished in some format. It seems to have vanished into the ether, like most of that "burst of creativity" that was to lead to three releases in 2016 (or was it 2017?).

I find the notion that Neil won’t do any Buckingham songs ubsurd ! That’s a bit like saying he won’t do any Peter Green or Jeremy Spencer songs either ?! 

I forget the names of the 2 other guitarists that were in the band in between Green and Buckingham .... does that mean that all ex member songs will be off limits to Neil ?! 

Not much point in recruiting him in that case .....

I was listening to Spirit Of The Stairs from Volume 1 of The Kitchen Sink today and couldn't help it how amazing that particular take on the song would sound with Fleetwood Mac. Of course, Neil Finn is a member of Fleetwood Mac, not Fleetwood Mac AND Neil Finn. But, if I really had to pick one track, it would be this one for the band to perform. It's primed for Nicks' backing vocals. 

TryWhistlingThis posted:

I was listening to Spirit Of The Stairs from Volume 1 of The Kitchen Sink today and couldn't help it how amazing that particular take on the song would sound with Fleetwood Mac. Of course, Neil Finn is a member of Fleetwood Mac, not Fleetwood Mac AND Neil Finn. But, if I really had to pick one track, it would be this one for the band to perform. It's primed for Nicks' backing vocals. 

Second that. "Spirit of The Stairs" is a perfect song to perform with Stevie and the band. Absolutely love the version you mentioned.

stuartjb posted:

I find the notion that Neil won’t do any Buckingham songs ubsurd ! That’s a bit like saying he won’t do any Peter Green or Jeremy Spencer songs either ?! 

I forget the names of the 2 other guitarists that were in the band in between Green and Buckingham .... does that mean that all ex member songs will be off limits to Neil ?! 

Not much point in recruiting him in that case .....

But there is a precedent for this...

Buckingham quit just before the Shake The Cage Tour in 1987/8. As MattL mentioned, Rick Vito and Billy Burnette were the replacements and only one Buckingham written song was on the setlist for that tour (Go Your Own Way). They did include 3 songs from the Peter Green era though.

Then you had the Behind the Mask tour in 1991 (again with Vito and Burnette instead of Buckingham). Again, only Go Your Own Way made the setlist, and again three Peter Green era songs were included. There were also songs of course from the Behind the Mask album that Vito and Burnette contributed to, and the first song of the encore was Burnette's father's song (Tear it Up).

Finally you had the Another Link In The Chain tour in 1994/95. Now by this time Stevie Nicks and Christine McVie had also left, so there were none of the original songwriters/singers! Still, the setlist only had the one Buckingham song (still Go Your Own Way!), only one Nicks song (Gold Dust Woman), one Peter Green era song (Oh Well), and three McVie. Dave Mason (who had by now replaced Vito) got 3 of his own/Traffic songs and Burnette got one of his as well as Tear It Up.

So for previous tours without Buckingham, he has been replaced by two strong singer/guitarist/songwriters. Yet on all three tours just Go Your Own Way was included. My guess is that won't change. I also reckon there will be 2 or 3 Peter Green era songs (again based on what has gone before), and it is not completely out of the question that Neil may get one of his songs on the setlist. If it was good enough for Billy Burnette, it should be good enough for Neil too!

I'm a fan of Neil, and also 'the Mac'. I was pretty shocked and disappointed to hear this, on many levels. I think Buckingham is an integral part of what I like about Fleetwood Mac, and I'm far more interested in what's going on with Neil Finn than seeing him perform Fleetwood Mac songs.  I also think what Neil has been doing has been infinitely better than anything Fleetwood Mac have done this millennium. 

I'm sure he'll do it well and they'll put on a good show. I can see there being some beautiful harmonies, and I think they'll choose an appropriate set list. I couldn't imagine Neil singing many of Buckingham's lead vocals, and I think there will be far fewer of those than in recent tours.  I wouldn't be 100% surprised if Neil does get to sing one of his own songs on the tour, but I'd be about 90% surprised.  I don't think Fleetwood Mac fans will necessarily want to hear a Crowded House song. I know they've played solo material from band members before, but that's been for well-established members.

I hope it's a success, and fans are happy with the outcome. Will I pay £100+ plus to see it (if it even reaches the UK)? Probably not, and I hope we don't have to wait too long for Neil's next project (and tour).  It's a shame that so little will have come out of the Out of Silence era. 

Well, if he does well on their tour (passes the audition, erm), perhaps Mark's friend R. Starkey might ask Neil to be an All-Starr? I would love to see that as nearby Tuscaloosa might possibly be on the tour.  I'll take a Finn performance, anyhow they come my way.

Awful news. I've been so looking forward to new Neil music - he's supposedly been on a creative roll - and yet here we are musing on him postponing all this work just so he can be a hired hand for a while. Of course, if it's what he fancies doing (and it'll certainly be a change for him) fair play, but this fan is really disappointed by the news.

Paul H posted:

Awful news. I've been so looking forward to new Neil music - he's supposedly been on a creative roll - and yet here we are musing on him postponing all this work just so he can be a hired hand for a while. Of course, if it's what he fancies doing (and it'll certainly be a change for him) fair play, but this fan is really disappointed by the news.

Paul, this is exactly how I felt when I heard the news, and to some extent still how I feel. My positive spin is that maybe it will stir something up and there might be a project developing in the background, rather than everything Finn put on hold for a year. I do find it a strange move for an artist so keen on creativity to be a 'hired hand' as you put it. 

Neil guesting in FM is going to be great. Completely new spin on things for him I'm sure, and this time he gets free accommodation ,  free bar  ,and expenses ..although I think they have given up on the penguin powder there will be  lots of other freebies 

 

I'm surprised by all the negative comments. Neil playing with Stevie/Christine/Mick/John/Mike is an astounding level of talent and should make for an amazing night of music.

The events of this week got me to revisit the Fleetwood Mac back catalogue (from the self-titled album until Tango) and it stands up so well with no many hidden treasures just like Neil's catalogue. 

"Storms" (see below), for example, is another example of an obscure Mac song that would likely sound incredible with Neil.

And, who knows, maybe some new material will come out of this venture.

My true hope is to see a Finn/Nicks album which could be a classic.

Bottom line is that it's nearly impossible to say no if you're asked to join one of the greatest rock bands of all-time. 

 

Sugar mouse , I appreciate this is a great oppurtunity for Neil , and having many Fleetwood Mac albums , would definitely go and see this gig if I got the chance . 

I can however totally see why people are feeling negative as well though . They will feel they are going to be deprived of “ Neil” material for the foreseeable ....

From my perspective , exciting though this is , I’d be 1000 % more excited  if a new crowded house album and tour had been announced . 

Regarding Stevie Nicks , she’s my least favourite Mac member musically , so I wouldn’t be overwhelmed if a collaboration between her and Neil came to pass . I always thought she was the most dispensable member of the group . 

 

Hello all---

I get it.  We're here because we love Neil's music, and him committing to a Mac tour means his own projects will be sent to the back burner for months, perhaps a year, depending on the length of the tour and/or his continuing participation in it.

Personally, I thought the same thing, but then I remembered how many of Neil's projects over the last 15 years involved collaborations of varying kinds.  I think he's just at a place in his career where he values different experiences, and this one should be unlike anything he's done before.  And he'll definitely bring something new and different to the band, that's for sure.

I regularly visit an FM fan website and message board, and the comments there have been overwhelmingly negative.  In fact, some of them have been downright ugly about Neil's participation, as if he was to blame for Lindsey Buckingham's dismissal.

For what it's worth, it DOES sound like the band might have treated LB unfairly, but who knows if we'll ever get the truth.  Supposedly, the band wanted to tour, but LB wanted time to release a solo record and do a short solo tour, and he was fired because of it.  LB fans are up in arms because the band waited on Stevie Nicks when she did the same thing a few years ago.  Clearly, the message is that Nicks runs the band now.

matt

Stuart, I was typing essentially what you said till I realized I was sounding pretty whiny and selfish, but yes, I do feel it is taking Neil away from any new music of his own for a lengthy time, and after dangling the "burst of creativity" and three albums in 2017 in front of us, I do feel extremely let down.

I do realize that is part of being a Neil fan, but knowing there is so much promising Neil music hanging out there, I just can't be excited about hearing him sing Fleetwood Mac songs.

mattl posted:

Hello all---

I get it.  We're here because we love Neil's music, and him committing to a Mac tour means his own projects will be sent to the back burner for months, perhaps a year, depending on the length of the tour and/or his continuing participation in it.

Personally, I thought the same thing, but then I remembered how many of Neil's projects over the last 15 years involved collaborations of varying kinds.  I think he's just at a place in his career where he values different experiences, and this one should be unlike anything he's done before.  And he'll definitely bring something new and different to the band, that's for sure.

I regularly visit an FM fan website and message board, and the comments there have been overwhelmingly negative.  In fact, some of them have been downright ugly about Neil's participation, as if he was to blame for Lindsey Buckingham's dismissal.

For what it's worth, it DOES sound like the band might have treated LB unfairly, but who knows if we'll ever get the truth.  Supposedly, the band wanted to tour, but LB wanted time to release a solo record and do a short solo tour, and he was fired because of it.  LB fans are up in arms because the band waited on Stevie Nicks when she did the same thing a few years ago.  Clearly, the message is that Nicks runs the band now.

matt

I highly suspect that the Lindsey departure was MUCH more complicated than the band simply not wanting to wait for him to fish his solo stuff. The recent book that outlined some fairly negative Lindsey behavior may have had something to do with it. It also sounds to me like this tour was planned and booked and then Lindsey wanted out to do his solo album meaning that the other members would have possibly been on the hook for this tour with or without Lindsey. Who knows all the details but it was almost certainly more than the band simply dumping LB because they couldn't wait for him.

And no offense to Lindsey (who is a major talent), he ain't no Neil Finn. Neil is a far superior songwriter and vocalist than Lindsey (at least in my opinion) and Mac fans will ultimately be very happy how Neil blends with the band. 

stuartjb posted:

Sugar mouse , I appreciate this is a great oppurtunity for Neil , and having many Fleetwood Mac albums , would definitely go and see this gig if I got the chance . 

I can however totally see why people are feeling negative as well though . They will feel they are going to be deprived of “ Neil” material for the foreseeable ....

From my perspective , exciting though this is , I’d be 1000 % more excited  if a new crowded house album and tour had been announced . 

Regarding Stevie Nicks , she’s my least favourite Mac member musically , so I wouldn’t be overwhelmed if a collaboration between her and Neil came to pass . I always thought she was the most dispensable member of the group . 

 

For me, Stevie is a major songwriting talent and she wrote many of the classic FM songs (Dreams, Rhiannon, Sara, Gypsy, Beautiful Child, Landslide, Storms, Gold Dust Woman, Sisters of The Moon, Silver Springs ...). These are truly some of the best songs of all-time.

Lindsey is a major talent as far as song-crafting and production, but Stevie has written a ton of great songs.  She's frankly a far better songwriter than anyone else in the classic Fleetwood Mac lineup.

Check out her recent album of rarities (24 Karat Gold) as well - there are many outstanding songs there. 

FM was such a good band because each person played their part so well. Stevie with the songwriting and the mystery.  Lindsey with the production and the guitars. Mick with the drums. John with the bass. Christine with the keys and the harmonies and also some great songwriting. 

If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore,

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online.

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th.

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3.

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

Jaffaman posted:

If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore,

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online.

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th.

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3.

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

The last paragraph makes me very sad Jaffaman .

First of all, I hope Neil has a blast!   I would take the gig just to sing with Christine McVie. Her voice feels like a cashmere sweater that fits perfectly.  In the case of Neil's voice, I've always liked the juxtaposition of his sweet tenor with Eddie Vedder's sour gravel,  especially on Take A Walk from 7 Worlds Collide. I can see that possibly happening with Stevie Nicks. That could be magical.  (Hopefully, everyone is in good form.)  I think both Stevie and Christine will enjoy Neil's vocal prowess.  Add FM's undeniable rhythm section and the interplay with the very capable, song focused guitar chops of Mike Campbell, and musically this makes sense.  What I worry about is the historic baggage and periodic dysfunction that has peppered the Fleetwood Mac story as well as their fanbase's  response to this iteration of the band. Hopefully, there will be enough open ears and minds to appreciate this version of the Mac.  Lastly and selfishly I admit, I hope Neil's time with Fleetwood Mac fills his spirit with adventure, inspiration and positive influence for future projects.  Let's see what happens.  Fingers crossed.

Jaffaman posted:

If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore,

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online.

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th.

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3.

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

I LOVE all these happy faced, thumbs up bullet points!  I'm along for the ride.  if there is anything I've learned from being a fan of Neil's is to expect the unexpected.  Anything can still happen, as you said! 

Stuart, I'm not having that nonsense about Dylan! Only joking, I can absolutely understand people not liking Dylan's voice. I can also understand not looking Nicks' voice, however, I far prefer it to Christine McVie's, which I find rather bland. I'd rather hear a worse singer (Dylan) with an interesting voice. Part of my concern is this - there are some in this thread (and Mac threads) under-appreciating Buckingham, and even worse, there is next to no appreciation of Neil's talents among Mac fans (that aren't already Finn fans). I really don't think there is going to be this mass conversion of fans, and instead FM fans will mostly compare Neil to the man who's missing. How many CH fans are guilty of comparing any other Neil project with Crowded House? It'll be the same here I suspect. It's like suggesting Finn or Dylan or Sting or Paul Simon have a 'hit' on their hands - great songwriters all, but it just isn't likely to happen anymore. They've just got to please themselves. I hope Neil has a ball, and it's all good. I don't expect a life-changing collaboration, or there to be any commercial upturn for anyone involved.

Jaffaman posted:

Good thing I don't do counselling for a living, then. All those bright points and you focus on that!

I get the points you make . I’m very happy for Neil ! 

I’m a Crowded House fan though Jeremy ! Saying you don’t envisage new crowded house stuff “ for years” is obviously going to make me sad ! The musical roles of the other guys are really important to me .

Considering you were a large part of these magnificent deluxe albums , I thought you’d get that more than most ! 

Possessed7 posted:

Stuart, I'm not having that nonsense about Dylan! Only joking, I can absolutely understand people not liking Dylan's voice. I can also understand not looking Nicks' voice, however, I far prefer it to Christine McVie's, which I find rather bland. I'd rather hear a worse singer (Dylan) with an interesting voice. Part of my concern is this - there are some in this thread (and Mac threads) under-appreciating Buckingham, and even worse, there is next to no appreciation of Neil's talents among Mac fans (that aren't already Finn fans). I really don't think there is going to be this mass conversion of fans, and instead FM fans will mostly compare Neil to the man who's missing. How many CH fans are guilty of comparing any other Neil project with Crowded House? It'll be the same here I suspect. It's like suggesting Finn or Dylan or Sting or Paul Simon have a 'hit' on their hands - great songwriters all, but it just isn't likely to happen anymore. They've just got to please themselves. I hope Neil has a ball, and it's all good. I don't expect a life-changing collaboration, or there to be any commercial upturn for anyone involved.

I Absolutley hope Neil has a great experience . It’s a fantastic oppurtunity . 

Re comparing everything Neil does to his work with Crowded House - hands up ! Guilty as charged  

Neil is my hero , but Mark , Nick and Matt deserve “ bigging up “ imo !

Stuart, I absolutely get that.  I love the chemistry of the four making music.  I love those individual players.  They each deserve the spotlight as well.  I hope they get in a room again, but I don't think Neil joining FM for this tour will delay another CH effort.  Maybe the opposite will occur, and his FM experience makes him yearn for his band and his friends for at least one more go around.  Let's see what happens.  

stuartjb posted:
Jaffaman posted:

Good thing I don't do counselling for a living, then. All those bright points and you focus on that!

I get the points you make . I’m very happy for Neil ! 

I’m a Crowded House fan though Jeremy ! Saying you don’t envisage new crowded house stuff “ for years” is obviously going to make me sad ! The musical roles of the other guys are really important to me .

Considering you were a large part of these magnificent deluxe albums , I thought you’d get that more than most ! 

I understand. I guess I like the idea of Neil trying different things from year to year. Intriguer and Time On Earth had some lovely songs but I found Dizzy Heights and Out Of Silence more satisfying as albums.

Steve Shealy posted:

Stuart, I was typing essentially what you said till I realized I was sounding pretty whiny and selfish, but yes, I do feel it is taking Neil away from any new music of his own for a lengthy time, and after dangling the "burst of creativity" and three albums in 2017 in front of us, I do feel extremely let down.

I do realize that is part of being a Neil fan, but knowing there is so much promising Neil music hanging out there, I just can't be excited about hearing him sing Fleetwood Mac songs.

Sorry for sounding whiny and selfish

i wish Neil nothing but the best , but we only come on here as fans to discuss our feelings and preferences of course

Steve Shealy posted:

... I do feel it is taking Neil away from any new music of his own for a lengthy time, and after dangling the "burst of creativity" and three albums in 2017 in front of us, I do feel extremely let down...

We know these things always stretch out for all sorts of reasons. I can't recall a third album being mentioned though.

Jaffaman posted:
stuartjb posted:
Jaffaman posted:

Good thing I don't do counselling for a living, then. All those bright points and you focus on that!

I get the points you make . I’m very happy for Neil ! 

I’m a Crowded House fan though Jeremy ! Saying you don’t envisage new crowded house stuff “ for years” is obviously going to make me sad ! The musical roles of the other guys are really important to me .

Considering you were a large part of these magnificent deluxe albums , I thought you’d get that more than most ! 

I understand. I guess I like the idea of Neil trying different things from year to year. Intriguer and Time On Earth had some lovely songs but I found Dizzy Heights and Out Of Silence more satisfying as albums.

Yesterday I mentioned on the other thread that I suddenly found “ Two minutes Silence “ to be a revelation . This reinforced my Crowded House Love , because I found it to be instantly better than anything on Dizzy Heights . Out of Silence is beautiful as an entire work , but again I don’t think it has a song on there that compares to “Two minutes “ or “ nonsense of course “ for that matter ..

i will follow everything Neil Does with interest and excitement , he’s my musical hero - but I do have preferences ... 

Above the Kitchen posted:

Stuart, I absolutely get that.  I love the chemistry of the four making music.  I love those individual players.  They each deserve the spotlight as well.  I hope they get in a room again, but I don't think Neil joining FM for this tour will delay another CH effort.  Maybe the opposite will occur, and his FM experience makes him yearn for his band and his friends for at least one more go around.  Let's see what happens.  

 

sounds good to me ! 

Its certainly making the forum nice and busy - which is great

Oh and another request for the upcoming Fleetwood Finn tour ... the incredible song "Sisters of The Moon" penned by Stevie. Unbelievable song ...  see below for those who don't know the song from the Tusk album. How freaking amazing would it be to have Neil and Mike Campbell accompany Stevie on this one ...

Sugar Mouse, I love both Sisters of the Moon and Storms, but the thought of Neil and not Lindsey performing those songs onstage as a member of Fleetwood Mac  is making me cringe.  I’m not really sure why I feel that way, although I think I would be cringing if it was anyone other than Lindsey under the “Fleetwood Mac” banner, not just Neil.

 

Above the Kitchen posted:

Yes, it's really nice to see familiar fans back online. Never say never on bands playing together again.  The Benny Goodman Quartet took nearly 25 years between projects.  That band had far more friction than CH, as far as I know, and they still reunited for an album. 

I got to see two bands reconvening after even longer lay-offs:

Tom Petty's pre-Heartbreakers band Mudcrutch evolved into the Heartbreakers in 1975 and re-emerged in 2007 to belatedly record their debut album released in 2008 and supported with tour of California that lasted a few weeks with Tom playing bass as he originally did in the band. A second album and national tour followed in 2016. So 32 years dormant there (and a connection with Neil's new bandmate Mike Campbell - lead guitarist in Mudcrutch and the Heartbreakers)

Buffalo Springfield broke up in 1968 and 42 years (!) later the surviving members reformed for two superb shows at Neil Young's Bridge School Benefit concerts in Mountain View, California, followed by a handful of performances in 2011.

Never say never indeed!

The Ligature posted:
Above the Kitchen posted:

Yes, it's really nice to see familiar fans back online. Never say never on bands playing together again.  The Benny Goodman Quartet took nearly 25 years between projects.  That band had far more friction than CH, as far as I know, and they still reunited for an album. 

I got to see two bands reconvening after even longer lay-offs:

Tom Petty's pre-Heartbreakers band Mudcrutch evolved into the Heartbreakers in 1975 and re-emerged in 2007 to belatedly record their debut album released in 2008 and supported with tour of California that lasted a few weeks with Tom playing bass as he originally did in the band. A second album and national tour followed in 2016. So 32 years dormant there (and a connection with Neil's new bandmate Mike Campbell - lead guitarist in Mudcrutch and the Heartbreakers)

Buffalo Springfield broke up in 1968 and 42 years (!) later the surviving members reformed for two superb shows at Neil Young's Bridge School Benefit concerts in Mountain View, California, followed by a handful of performances in 2011.

Never say never indeed!

Excellent examples, Ligature.  I was hoping like many were, that Buffalo Springfield would have played more gigs.  That Neil Young is the prototypical "expect the unexpected" artist. Our Neil has followed in his footsteps to a certain extent.  What was unique about the Benny Goodman Quartet was that all the musicians had some level of success in between recordings, leading their own groups.  

brownie posted:

Sugar Mouse, I love both Sisters of the Moon and Storms, but the thought of Neil and not Lindsey performing those songs onstage as a member of Fleetwood Mac  is making me cringe.  I’m not really sure why I feel that way, although I think I would be cringing if it was anyone other than Lindsey under the “Fleetwood Mac” banner, not just Neil.

 

I get it, Brownie.  I suspect that the setlist will be light on Lindsay songs. When Rick Vito and Billy Brunette replaced  Lindsay in the 80's, I think they played one (Go Your Own Way) maybe two Lindsay songs on tour.  No one can match the tense and ascerbic quality of Lindsay's vocals or the emotionally complicated interplay between him and Stevie.  I would cringe too if Neil and Stevie tried to replicate that. 

brownie posted:

Sugar Mouse, I love both Sisters of the Moon and Storms, but the thought of Neil and not Lindsey performing those songs onstage as a member of Fleetwood Mac  is making me cringe.  I’m not really sure why I feel that way, although I think I would be cringing if it was anyone other than Lindsey under the “Fleetwood Mac” banner, not just Neil.

 

Hi Brownie,

"Sisters of The Moon" was written by Stevie and I thought it was about her relationship with Christine (perhaps I'm wrong).  So I would love to see her sing it with Christine taking the "counter" vocal although, of course, Neil would be my first choice.

Jaffaman posted:
Steve Shealy posted:

... I do feel it is taking Neil away from any new music of his own for a lengthy time, and after dangling the "burst of creativity" and three albums in 2017 in front of us, I do feel extremely let down...

We know these things always stretch out for all sorts of reasons. I can't recall a third album being mentioned though.

Apart from "Out of Silence" and the Liam album, I thought Neil was teasing some musical project he was working on with Tim. That they'd written a bunch of songs, but hadn't decided exactly how they'd present them - maybe as a stage musical - was what he seemed to be suggesting. 

I think THAT is the "third" album or musical project everyone might be thinking of.

As for Neil in FM, why not? I know collaboration inspires him and it may open new ideas for him, creatively. At the very least, I imagine he'll have a blast being in FM for a tour. I just hope he doesn't sleep with anyone in the band (particularly Mick Fleetwood). I don't want to hear "Rumours 2" with an angry Neil bemoaning Mick's neglect for his feelings.

mattl posted:

Hello all---

I get it.  We're here because we love Neil's music, and him committing to a Mac tour means his own projects will be sent to the back burner for months, perhaps a year, depending on the length of the tour and/or his continuing participation in it.

Personally, I thought the same thing, but then I remembered how many of Neil's projects over the last 15 years involved collaborations of varying kinds.  I think he's just at a place in his career where he values different experiences, and this one should be unlike anything he's done before.  And he'll definitely bring something new and different to the band, that's for sure.

I regularly visit an FM fan website and message board, and the comments there have been overwhelmingly negative.  In fact, some of them have been downright ugly about Neil's participation, as if he was to blame for Lindsey Buckingham's dismissal.

For what it's worth, it DOES sound like the band might have treated LB unfairly, but who knows if we'll ever get the truth.  Supposedly, the band wanted to tour, but LB wanted time to release a solo record and do a short solo tour, and he was fired because of it.  LB fans are up in arms because the band waited on Stevie Nicks when she did the same thing a few years ago.  Clearly, the message is that Nicks runs the band now.

matt

I have to agree with you here. We have been a witness to Neil's incredible musical journey and truly blessed in watching this genius and I should've written genius in capital letters, morph into the amazing talented man he has become. Yes, I am gushing now but a few days ago was angry and feeling selfish. Like most of you feeling ripped off but now the shock has settled am in the realization Neil is wanted and loved by all. Why not share him with another group. Another style or genre shall we say. Neil is obviously jumping at this opportunity to help a friend in need, but I somehow feel this was on the cards for a little while just waiting for a break. So jump off that cliff Neil and explore the depths of where this may take you. For you have stood at that cliff for way too long and I fear we your fans may have held you back. We are blessed and FM are truly gifted to have you play with them. There will be more exposure no doubt and the beauty of internet, I do hope for a live performance or I believe there may even be a filmed final release for FMs goodbye tour. It only makes sense :-)  so yes whinge and whine but I don't think we should hold Neil back. I for one am letting him jump

As far as projects there are positives, as mentioned on the NEWS page at www.frenz.com/neilfinn/ the Liam-Neil album is still on release for late August (around the 24th) and various promotional ideas are being talked about. (more on that closer to release).  There have been time periods where Neil hasn't toured etc  we all survived those and new music (and gigs) were created and performed.  I like that he makes detours, maybe it also keeps the adventure fresh for him too? 

It must be all those Fleetwood Mac fans discovering Crowded House this week. The "Very Very Best Of Crowded House" jumps back into the Top 50 at #47 and moves up to #15 on the ARIA Catalogue chart. The Fleetwood Mac best Of is #8 on the Catalogue chart. 

I'm really pleased to hear the Neil/Liam record is stilled scheduled to happen this year - really pleased to hear that there is even a tentative date next to it now as well. Like the bits and pieces I've heard on you tube - think I read that Tchad Blake is the producer so that (if its right) gives me a good feeling.

I think I read elsewhere that FM are touring later in 2018 anyway. I have no opinion on Fleetwood Mac - have neither liked or not liked them. Joining them fits with Neil's now routine of making it impossible to second guess what he does next so you could say joining a band is a continuation of what he does. I'll be looking out for some live 2018 Fleetwood Mac to have a listen based on being a Finn fan. 

Who knows what will happen after the FM tour - I bet Neil probably isn't sure either but I think thats is how he prefers it nowadays... and good for him.

 

 

I like FM and I enjoy their music I have never seen them play live and I doubt Neil joining them to tour will change that, although I'd love to hear a duet between Neil and Christine.

Why Neil has decided to do this is bemusing but then I didn't understand why he toured with Paul Kelly until I heard the SOH show - I learnt a lot from that collaboration.

So I guess I will have to monitor events and see whether this detour proves fruitful however if anyone needs a Neil/Liam distraction someone has kindly posted the twilight at Taronga gig on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RpkzR3SdsAY

After listening to some rants on YT about Lindsey's firing, Neil has his work cut out for him.  Most of what I watched were Americans who didn't even know how Neil was.  It could also be that the fans against it are likely to be the most vocal but not necessarily the most in number.  Some did mention that they thought that Irving Azoff was behind this.  He was also supposedly behind getting Vince Gill and Deacon Frey into the Eagles.  The theory was that a FM tour was pencilled in.  But when Lindsey started making a fuss, Irving supposedly told Mick that Lindsey has to go.  He was hell-bent on keeping the tour on track.  This could explain why the decision to get Mike and Neil went apparently so quickly.  Again, this is all speculation but it does make sense to me.  If Irving's hands are all over this, then it is unlikely Neil will be doing much if any of his material.  Neil will mostly likely just be a sideman on this tour, so I really doubt this will win over any new CH/Neil fans.  I wish Neil much luck as it appears that he may be walking into a "lion's den".   My mind is still boggled by this decision.  Someone mentioned the NF/PK tour.  Well, that one made sense to me from the get go.  I am forever grateful that these two artists did not have managers that were as overly controlling as Irving Azoff otherwise that tour may never have happened. 

The Eagles situation is a lot different as it involved the passing of a founding member and he was replaced by his son and a highly respected country music legend in Vince Gill.

The Mac situation had to do with a very complex set of personalities and events most of which are likely unknown to the public.

I've been reading some of the posts on the Fleetwood Mac forum and wow there is a lot of angry folks.  I get it.  I felt that way when a similar thing happened to two of my favorite bands: when Mick Jones was kicked out of The Clash and when Fish was "fired" from Marillion.

Lindsey, while not the best songwriter in Fleetwood Mac, was the creative driving force without a doubt. That being said, the new FM lineup is likely to be a completely different beast than the soft yacht rock of past tours.

Look for Neil and Mike to instill some much needed energy into the tour. I see folks posting that they expect very few if any Neil or Petty songs but I bet you will. Maybe even a Split Enz song (Message or I Got You would sound great with the Mac). It's obviously going to be mostly Mac songs but I could see 1-2 songs for Neil and 1-2 songs for Mike. Maybe even a mid-show segment for that.

Few have mentioned the events of last year related to the Buckingham/McVie album. That album was supposed to be a Fleetwood Mac album but Stevie Nicks refused to participate. In retrospect, that decision hinted at a large strain in the band.

In prior years, it would be unthinkable that Stevie would refuse to participate in a project if the other four members (especially Christine) were on board. I suspect that there's a lot more to the story than we know at the moment.

All the more reason why I do not understand Neil's decision.  I also always thought that Neil hated Stevie Nicks and Tom Petty.  The Tom Petty tour that SE opened up for left a sour taste in his mouth.  Neil was also very quiet when TP died.  Again if Irving Azoff has his way, and he will if anything that I know about him is true, Neil will be relegated to a sideman position.

Here's an article that may speak to the underlying tension between Irving Azoff and Lindsay Buckingham as well Lindsay and Stevie

  It's just odd that Stevie refuses to play on a new Fleetwood Mac album that morphed into a Buckingham-McVie album with Mick and John the rhythm section.  Stevie stays in the group but Lindsay doesn't want to tour and he's fired.  Obviously, touring makes money, new albums generally do not.  And touring is a manager-led process.  The hardcore FM fans may be right.  This may be an Azoff decision.

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/enterta...7-story.html?ref=yfp

amjfrenz posted:

All the more reason why I do not understand Neil's decision.  I also always thought that Neil hated Stevie Nicks and Tom Petty.  The Tom Petty tour that SE opened up for left a sour taste in his mouth.  Neil was also very quiet when TP died.  

Not so sure about this.

I can't find the Tweet but someone did ask, at the time of Tom's death, Neil if he had a favourite Tom Petty song. Neil replied with "Free falling". 

I also wouldn't read too  closely into Neil's views of other musicians back during Split Enz. Didn't he actually make a disparaging remark about Stevie during his time in Split Enz where Stevie didn't want any photos taken at a gig? 

From what I remember, someone had tweeted him and asked what he remembered about that tour.  He said that they were not given adequate time to do sound check and that they were told not to photograph or film Stevie.  She had been tagging along with TP on that tour.   In the 'Stranger than Fiction' book, they also talked about her erratic behaviour.  But, I believe at that time she was going through her cocaine addiction.  It ended up sounding like it was a tour that they would rather forget.

I honestly think Neil has gone for the vulgar $ on this... can't blame him I suppose.  Recording studios to run and probably salaried people.  I hope it helps Neil's music which I find has gone in a steady decline; playing away from his strengths of hooks and melodies.  I just hope that playing some Fleetwood Mac reminds him of these and gets him musically a bit more back on track.  it's probably not good to record with Fleetwood Mac as that would be a hiding to nothing.  Anyone remember the Time album... thought not! 

Lots of unnecessary panic about this. Neil's clearly just doing his mate Mick Fleetwood a favour to help keep the FM tour on the road, and likes the kick of doing something different. As a musician there'll be a lot of fun for him with none of the pressure of being the front man carrying the brand.

He'll love the Finn fan reaction I'm sure. Fleetwood Mac is this year's moustache. The more you hate it, the more he'll do it. 

horse 2 water ski-ing posted:

I honestly think Neil has gone for the vulgar $ on this... can't blame him I suppose.  Recording studios to run and probably salaried people.  I hope it helps Neil's music which I find has gone in a steady decline; playing away from his strengths of hooks and melodies.  I just hope that playing some Fleetwood Mac reminds him of these and gets him musically a bit more back on track.  it's probably not good to record with Fleetwood Mac as that would be a hiding to nothing.  Anyone remember the Time album... thought not! 

I feel uncomfortable speculating about Neil’s financial life but I doubt he’s doing this for $. I’m sure he could live happily on the royalties from DDIO alone, not to mention all the other hits, touring income and album sales, declining as they may be. And his studio has been around quite a while now, surely it’s profitable. That said, a big chunk of cash could facilitate more daring projects like Out of Silence (which, think about it, must have been quite costly), more frequent albums, etc.

I think this is just a fun exciting adventure for him, a once in a lifetime opportunity he’d be foolish to pass up.

Jaffaman posted:

If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore,

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online.

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th.

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3.

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

I would also add that increased exposure of Neil and Neil's music will likely have a positive effect on Roundhead Studios.

Above the Kitchen posted:

I would also add that increased exposure of Neil and Neil's music will likely have a positive effect on Roundhead Studios.

Possibly, but Roundhead already seems to be quite a destination.  Here is a partial list of famous artists who've recorded there:

Ed Sheeran - Lorde - Kanye West - Wilco - Arcade Fire - Mumford and Sons - Dinosaur Jr - Common

Of course that list could grow but it's certainly not just some little NZ studio nobody's heard of.

http://roundheadstudios.com/faq/

RobS posted:

Can’t understand it. Imagine LB taking Neil’s place in Crowded House. We wouldn’t like it although we know it couldn’t happen 

I guess the difference is that Neil Finn wrote all (or almost all) of Crowded House's significant songs.  I adore the other members of the band, but Crowed House was truly Neil's band.

Fleetwood Mac, on the other hand, is/was a much more complex entity.

First of all, Lindsey joined the band on their 10th studio album.  He wasn't an original member while Neil started Crowed House.

Second, Lindsey didn't write most of the band's significant songs. Stevie Nicks wrote most of the band's main songs with Christine McVie writing some others. Lindsey did write some songs but only a few of them have become "keepers". He is much more of a "songcrafter" than songwriter. He has an extraordinary gift for making other people's songs sparkle.

No doubt, Lindsey is a major talent. He's one of the greatest guitarist of all-time and he helped create the "sound" that we recognize as Fleetwood Mac.  He was essentially the producer and lead guitarist for the band while Stevie and Christine were the main songwriters and Mick/John were the rhythm section. 

Thus, the comparison between Lindsey and Neil is a tough one to make. While Crowded House was "Neil's band", Fleetwood Mac was much more of a team effort.

RobS posted:

Can’t understand it. Imagine LB taking Neil’s place in Crowded House. We wouldn’t like it although we know it couldn’t happen 

I think a better analogy would be if Split Enz decided to get back to tour again. At the same time, they also wrote material for a new album, but Tim didn't want to contribute to that and went off to do another project. They still released the album but not under the Split Enz name.

Then Tim came back for the next tour, but Neil said that he didn't like the sound of the proposed tour and had his own projects that he wanted to work on.  As a collective, the band decided to fire Neil and replace him with somebody else and still go ahead with the tour.

For me, it would still be a valid version of Split Enz and I would welcome the new member(s) with an open mind. The Enz existed prior to Neil and it also existed after Tim left. Phil Judd was the driving force behind it in the mid 70s. Yes, Neil produced the big hits in the 80s, but there was so much more to Split Enz than that. 

I would still go and see Split Enz without Neil in it. I would just hope that they decided to add more Phil Judd songs to the setlist as a result (and that the new member could do them justice). I just wouldn't want to hear them do Message To My Girl or I Got You etc without Neil. 

 

Time is ok ! I have it . One of my favourite Mac albums however  Is Behind The mask which was recorded using Billy Burnette and Rick Vito right after the first time Buckingham left . 

In terms of Neil’s writing , I don’t think it’s declining ,but changing . Dizzy Heights isn’t as enjoyable to  me as Intriguer and it’s bonus stuff for the very reason you said .

stuartjb posted:

Time is ok ! I have it . One of my favourite Mac albums however  Is Behind The mask which was recorded using Billy Burnette and Rick Vito right after the first time Buckingham left . 

In terms of Neil’s writing , I don’t think it’s declining ,but changing . Dizzy Heights isn’t as enjoyable to  me as Intriguer and it’s bonus stuff for the very reason you said .

I agree with you that Neil's writing isn't declining.  Some may prefer a more lushy produced album, but the songs on "Out of Silence" are some of the best he's ever written.

Sugar Mouse posted:
stuartjb posted:

Time is ok ! I have it . One of my favourite Mac albums however  Is Behind The mask which was recorded using Billy Burnette and Rick Vito right after the first time Buckingham left . 

In terms of Neil’s writing , I don’t think it’s declining ,but changing . Dizzy Heights isn’t as enjoyable to  me as Intriguer and it’s bonus stuff for the very reason you said .

I agree with you that Neil's writing isn't declining.  Some may prefer a more lushy produced album, but the songs on "Out of Silence" are some of the best he's ever written.

Out of Silence is beautiful . I think however it works more as a work than separate songs . I think Neil’s work has become a little more abstract . I know you can’t churn the same material out over and over ( although chuck berry did lol ) 

i do however yearn for Neil’s 90’s style of songwriting sometimes ....

Sugar Mouse posted:

 For me, Stevie is a major songwriting talent and she wrote many of the classic FM songs (Dreams, Rhiannon, Sara, Gypsy, Beautiful Child, Landslide, Storms, Gold Dust Woman, Sisters of The Moon, Silver Springs ...). These are truly some of the best songs of all-time.

Lindsey is a major talent as far as song-crafting and production, but Stevie has written a ton of great songs.  She's frankly a far better songwriter than anyone else in the classic Fleetwood Mac lineup.

Check out her recent album of rarities (24 Karat Gold) as well - there are many outstanding songs there. 

FM was such a good band because each person played their part so well. Stevie with the songwriting and the mystery.  Lindsey with the production and the guitars. Mick with the drums. John with the bass. Christine with the keys and the harmonies and also some great songwriting. 

Hello all,

For the sake of clarity, it’s important to point out that, while Nicks is recognized by the general public as the band’s lead vocalist, she is not actually its most successful songwriter.  I know that's not quite the same thing as "best" or "great," but sometimes those things can mean similar things.

Christine McVie wrote 10 of the band’s top 40 hits, which is double the number written by Nicks (who wrote 5) and more than triple the number written by Buckingham (3).

True, Nicks wrote the band’s only number 1 hit (“Dreams”), but McVie is without a doubt the band’s most successful singer-songwriter, based on the facts (Source: Billboard.com, US charts hot 100).  Here are the songs that reached the top 40 sorted by writer, including the highest chart position:

NICKS
Dreams - 1
Sara - 7
Rhiannon - 11
Gypsy - 12
Seven Wonders - 19

McVIE
Don’t Stop - 3
Little Lies - 4
Hold Me - 4
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Say You Love Me - 11
Everywhere - 14
Over My Head - 20
Think About Me - 20
Love in Store - 22
Save Me - 33

BUCKINGHAM
Big Love - 5
Tusk - 8
Go Your Own Way - 10

I’m a Buckingham fan first, but there are a few Nicks songs I count among their best (“Landslide” is actually my very favorite FM tune, and I think her best songs on their last full album, SAY YOU WILL, were actually better than most of his tunes on that record).

But when McVie left the band, I quickly realized that she was the glue that held FM together.  She's probably the closest thing they have to someone being the soul or the heart of the band.

It will not be the same without Buckingham, but now he’s free to release solo music, which seemed to be his short-term goal.

The band, meanwhile, goes on, just as it always has. I’m eager to see how Neil and Mike fit into the group. Make no mistake, Nicks is running the band now, which means neither of the new fellows will step in her spotlight. But I think they’re both smart enough and talented enough to make the situation work and have fun doing it.

Matt

mattl posted:
Sugar Mouse posted:

 For me, Stevie is a major songwriting talent and she wrote many of the classic FM songs (Dreams, Rhiannon, Sara, Gypsy, Beautiful Child, Landslide, Storms, Gold Dust Woman, Sisters of The Moon, Silver Springs ...). These are truly some of the best songs of all-time.

Lindsey is a major talent as far as song-crafting and production, but Stevie has written a ton of great songs.  She's frankly a far better songwriter than anyone else in the classic Fleetwood Mac lineup.

Check out her recent album of rarities (24 Karat Gold) as well - there are many outstanding songs there. 

FM was such a good band because each person played their part so well. Stevie with the songwriting and the mystery.  Lindsey with the production and the guitars. Mick with the drums. John with the bass. Christine with the keys and the harmonies and also some great songwriting. 

Hello all,

For the sake of clarity, it’s important to point out that, while Nicks is recognized by the general public as the band’s lead vocalist, she is not actually its most successful songwriter.  I know that's not quite the same thing as "best" or "great," but sometimes those things can mean similar things.

Christine McVie wrote 10 of the band’s top 40 hits, which is double the number written by Nicks (who wrote 5) and more than triple the number written by Buckingham (3).

True, Nicks wrote the band’s only number 1 hit (“Dreams”), but McVie is without a doubt the band’s most successful singer-songwriter, based on the facts (Source: Billboard.com, US charts hot 100).  Here are the songs that reached the top 40 sorted by writer, including the highest chart position:

NICKS
Dreams - 1
Sara - 7
Rhiannon - 11
Gypsy - 12
Seven Wonders - 19

McVIE
Don’t Stop - 3
Little Lies - 4
Hold Me - 4
You Make Loving Fun - 9
Say You Love Me - 11
Everywhere - 14
Over My Head - 20
Think About Me - 20
Love in Store - 22
Save Me - 33

BUCKINGHAM
Big Love - 5
Tusk - 8
Go Your Own Way - 10

I’m a Buckingham fan first, but there are a few Nicks songs I count among their best (“Landslide” is actually my very favorite FM tune, and I think her best songs on their last full album, SAY YOU WILL, were actually better than most of his tunes on that record).

But when McVie left the band, I quickly realized that she was the glue that held FM together.  She's probably the closest thing they have to someone being the soul or the heart of the band.

It will not be the same without Buckingham, but now he’s free to release solo music, which seemed to be his short-term goal.

The band, meanwhile, goes on, just as it always has. I’m eager to see how Neil and Mike fit into the group. Make no mistake, Nicks is running the band now, which means neither of the new fellows will step in her spotlight. But I think they’re both smart enough and talented enough to make the situation work and have fun doing it.

Matt

Really interesting post.  I agree that Christine has been the glue that keeps things together amidst some truly dysfunctional dynamics.  And I completely agree that Christine has written a large number of the band's hits over the years. The band has been so fortunate to have three elite songwriters.  Most bands are lucky to have one great songwriter and FM has had three!  

Music, like all art, is subjective. For me, my Fleetwood Mac compilations are heavily slanted towards Stevie songs as I resonate most with her songs and find much greater depth of meaning in her songs especially Storms, Sisters of The Moon, Planets of The Universe, Hard Advice, Goodbye Baby, Italian Summer, Lady, She Still Loves Him, Kind of Woman, Beautiful Child, Mabel Normand, and Beauty & The Beast. Like Neil Finn's songs, Stevie's songs (for me) take on greater and greater emotional weight over time - the sign of truly exceptional songwriting.

Many of the songs I mentioned above are more obscure Stevie songs and weren't "hits", but they are some of my favorite songs of all-time. While I like Christine's and Lindsey's songs, I don't find the same long-lasting power in most of their compositions.   

Very strange. I'm not a FM fan, but I'd like to see them in concert more than other bands I've paid to see in concert. Not in these $200.00 ticket days, mind you.

I imagine a combination of Neil popping in here and there, supporting every front-person in ways most effective.  And the rest. 

Buckingham Nicks were very popular in Bham long ago, so I wouldn't be surprised by a little local vocal backlash on the news blog.. But we're a walk-up crowd, so sales should be good. (And FM has done well here in the past). It will be bigger than Tuscaloosa where the All-Starrs and Steely Dan : (  played recently.   Ringo also played the concert hall. It's a little depressing seeing Neil Finn in a room larger than a concert hall, if only from the patron's perspective.

I believe there will be a bit of interest.  But for $200.00?  (And forgive me for asking, is there a presale detail?  I'll scope the room.)

You know, I'm beginning to make my peace with Neil's move to FM. My instinct is still to mourn the decision but, on giving it some deeper thought, it doesn't seem so bad. This, I must confess, is partly borne of the fact that I've been less than enamoured with his most recent offerings: DIzzy Heights had two stone-cold classics, a couple of very good songs and the rest was fairly forgettable; Out of Silence has one great song, a couple of good uns and the rest I can take or leave.

So, if Neil finds himself having to contribute three, maybe four songs to a new FM album that probably won't be too great a loss at present. I'm sure Neil welcomes the chance to share the mantle of band leader/songwriter and I hope it allows him to really focus on a smaller number of potentially great songs rather than him having to labour under the requirement to fill whole albums on his own. If we get three or four NF classics on the next FM album, I personally will be one happy bunny. And it really doesn't matter if the "backing band" is FM or a bunch of unknown sessions players...

Couple this with my own personal circumstances (young son) which limits my ability to catch Neil on stage, and I find myself quite welcoming an absence from NF-centric stage appearances.

Given that FM aren't exactly prolific themselves, and that Neil is "restless", I can see that he could easily fit on-going FM commitments around future solo or even CH projects.

So, onwards and upwards...

Here’s my take:

The good:

1. Neil’s vocals will be awesome with FM on Rhiannon and Tusk.

2. This will seriously raise his profile  in mainstream music.

3. There’s a chance to hear FM version of Neil’s songs. Message to My Girl would be perfect.

4. For the first time in more than twenty years, Neil’s playing my hometown.

 

The bad:

1. For the first time in his life, Neil is working with a group that, while very good, isn’t exactly relevant.

2. Neil has an uphill battle convincing the hardcore FM fans he’s a worthy replacement for Lindsay Buckingham.

3. I’m  not happy with the whole long term  thing. One tour is fine but I’d hate for this to overshadow the projects where he gets creative control.

 

The ugly:

1. How will a guy like Neil do in a band as volatile as Fleetwood Mac? 

 

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