Mark Hart

I don't want to make any scathing criticisms without knowing how things will play out. All I'll say is I am a massive admirer of what Mark brought to the band. Together Alone was the high water mark of Neil's entire career and Mark's instrumentation played a critical role. I hope his importance is acknowledged and remembered by everyone.

At the Opera House three years ago, I queued up early to stake out a spot not at centre stage, but at stage right, to be as close to Mark's brilliance as possible. 

I’m just as shocked and equally disappointed with the news... Mark Hart is not only an integral part of the music, the history, and the overall brand, he’s genuinely one of the nicest guys ever. His presence added a level of maturity and musical sophistication that will be very-very hard to replicate. As a multi-instrumentalist and vocalist he will leave a gap that is virtually impossible to fill... Here’s hoping Rick Davies’ health is on the mend, and maybe Supertramp decides to do a world tour or Ringo Starr calls up and invites him back to his All-Starr band.

In terms of the future of Crowded House, the silver lining here is that the band will likely go on beyond just the single show in Sydney in April next year. Who will actually be in the band, and what (if any) new material will we get, will likely remain a mystery until after Fleetwood Mac wraps their tour later in the fall. Neil is intentionally and rightfully trying not take any attention away from the Mac; they’ve been really good to him and he owes them that much.

My guess is Matt is also out (I really hope I’m wrong, but how/why could they ditch Mark and keep Matt?).

The idea of Mitchell Froom joining them in Sydney (and maybe beyond) is exciting, and also indicates they’re covered in terms of keyboards (at least for the Bluesfest show). Still I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if we see Eddy Rayner play some part in the future of the band.

In terms of who’ll be drumming, here are a few guesses (ordered in terms of probability): Elroy / Mick Fleetwood / Joey Waronker / Rob Hirst (Midnight Oil) / Glenn Kotche (Wilco) / Matt Eccles ( Betchadupa drummer who played with Tim once upon a time) / other lesser known session player / Matt Sherrod

Tim will very likely make an appearance at the show, and I think that because Mitchell Froom is in the mix, and Mark being gone, Tim will likely be involved in the future of the band. CH v3.0 is perhaps Woodface 2 or the evolution of a 3rd Finn Brothers project. Also, having Tim in the band would cover the harmonies and rhythm guitars.

If I’m wrong about Tim’s long-term role in the new band, then they’ll definitely need another guitarist, so while I’m on roll, here are my guesses of who that part might go to (again ordered from most probable to least likely): Liam / Mike Campbell / Johnny Marr / Jim Moginie / Don McGlashan / Connan Mockasin-Lawrence Arabia or any other of Liam’s cohorts.

One final conspiracy theory (why not) involves Sheryl Crow, Bic Runga, and/or Lisa Germano or someone accomplished in their own right (Johny Marr and some of the other names above fit into this category). The logic being, with the whole Fleetwood Mac thing Neil has seen firsthand how merging two legacies draws the attention of the media and ultimately sells tickets for shows that would otherwise go mostly unnoticed (except for hardcore fans).

Regardless of what/when we find out, my curiosity is firing on all cylinders and I’m very excited (similar to how I felt in 2006/2007 when we first heard about CH v2.0).

As Neil mentioned during his radio show last night, the key will be to TRUST (as we should) that he AND NICK, know what they’re doing. They know how to protect the CH legacy and wouldn’t (intentionally) do anything to betray their fans.

Exciting times ahead...

Insane speculation! No facts known yet. Maybe Mark asked to be paid something daft to do it, and that's why Neil said no. Let's wait to hear all sides.

And obviously it'll be Lindsey Buckingham on guitar. 

In fairness to @BRANDO BRANDT, the comment wasn't posted as confirmed news or anything. No one knows the full story at this point, and everything is speculation and theorising. I thought it was a really interesting post and raised some interesting points and ideas.

Obviously I'm shocked at this news and can't argue too much with what @stuartjb said in his opening post.

Except for the few facts we know for sure, it’s ALL fun/compulsive speculation.

😁

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

Except for the few facts we know for sure, it’s ALL fun/compulsive speculation.

😁

Mark not being there isn’t speculation .

stuartjb posted:

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

Except for the few facts we know for sure, it’s ALL fun/compulsive speculation.

😁

Mark not being there isn’t speculation .

... which makes it one of the few known facts I’m referring to in my previous post.

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

stuartjb posted:

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

Except for the few facts we know for sure, it’s ALL fun/compulsive speculation.

😁

Mark not being there isn’t speculation .

... which makes it one of the few known facts I’m referring to in my previous post.

And for me , that’s the main fact .

Can someone please explain everything to me, I'm very confused.

PH, I don't know what any of this means.

What Mark Hart wrote on twitter was as follows:
"Hello All, I feel it’s time to let you all know that Neil has informed me that I will not be a part of the band’s new lineup. Being a part of Crowded House for 30 years was a pleasure and a privilege. I wish them well and hope you all enjoy the new band.
Best to you all,
Mark"

This is remarkable news. I'm somewhat in shock and feel extremely sorry for Mark. In my humble opinion (FWIW) he's been shoddily treated by Neil for a great many years. As much as Neil can often be extremely gracious and humble - and is clearly well-liked by a great many people - I think the way he's treated Mark over most of CH's career has been a real blot on his record. 

I will, of course, continue to show an interest in everything he does but he seems keen to chip away at the CH legacy with every turn. 

What can I say?  In my opinion, Mark made what I consider to be an essential contribution to the sound of Together Alone, which is my favorite album ever.  Yes, they’re Neil’s songs, but it was the combination of Neil and Nick and Mark and Paul that brought them to life.  

I would be more accepting of this if it was Mark who decided to bow out, but his tweet seems to make it clear that it was Neil’s decision.

Perhaps the “new Crowded House” will create some great new music, but they should find another name because it ain’t Crowded House!

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

brownie posted:

What can I say?  In my opinion, Mark made what I consider to be an essential contribution to the sound of Together Alone, which is my favorite album ever.  Yes, they’re Neil’s songs, but it was the combination of Neil and Nick and Mark and Paul that brought them to life.  

I would be more accepting of this if it was Mark who decided to bow out, but his tweet seems to make it clear that it was Neil’s decision.

Perhaps the “new Crowded House” will create some great new music, but they should find another name because it ain’t Crowded House!

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

Absolutley spot on

stuartjb posted:

brownie posted:

What can I say?  In my opinion, Mark made what I consider to be an essential contribution to the sound of Together Alone, which is my favorite album ever.  Yes, they’re Neil’s songs, but it was the combination of Neil and Nick and Mark and Paul that brought them to life.  

I would be more accepting of this if it was Mark who decided to bow out, but his tweet seems to make it clear that it was Neil’s decision.

Perhaps the “new Crowded House” will create some great new music, but they should find another name because it ain’t Crowded House!

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

Absolutley spot on

Also here! If I may give individual credits for best album ever, Together Alone, it would be:

1. Neil Finn

2. Producer Youth

3. Mark Hart

I really dont know what is going on...still hope its a joke, or it would be changed...its just no good..

brownie posted

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

I hate to break it to you, but many bands do in fact become brands once they achieve a certain status and level of commercial success. 

This doesn’t happen because I personally want it to (so don’t make it personal), it happens because the music ‘industry’ works this way, and as fans we play an integral part in making this possible. Think The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, U2, Coldplay, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac and yes even our beloved Crowded House (just to name a few). These are brands that make millions of $’s whether it be on Royalties, Merchandise, Albums/Downloads or Concert tickets ( for those that actively tour).

So the idea that bands are simply in it for the love of music is very romantic but also naive. 

Make no mistake, Neil and Nick are (and deserve to be) looking to maximize the exposure and profit of their next project (whatever it may be).

Why shouldn’t they call it Crowded House? Why shouldn’t they be allowed to attempt to reach new audiences and achieve higher levels of commercial and critical success?

I find it funny how some fans become Uber-Purists who believe they know more and better, than the actual artists who’s  work they so passionately adore.

I get it, we’re all surprised, shocked even with this announcement. Nobody on this forum is happy to see Mark gone from the lineup, but lets wait until all the pieces fall into place and more information is disclosed, before we start questioning the integrity or motives of Neil Finn or Nick Seymour.

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

brownie posted

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

I hate to break it to you, but many bands do in fact become brands once they achieve a certain status and level of commercial success. 

This doesn’t happen because I personally want it to (so don’t make it personal), it happens because the music ‘industry’ works this way, and as fans we play an integral part in making this possible. Think The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, U2, Coldplay, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac and yes even our beloved Crowded House (just to name a few). These are brands that make millions of $’s whether it be on Royalties, Merchandise, Albums/Downloads or Concert tickets ( for those that actively tour).

So the idea that bands are simply in it for the love of music is very romantic but also naive. 

Make no mistake, Neil and Nick are (and deserve to be) looking to maximize the exposure and profit of their next project (whatever it may be).

Why shouldn’t they call it Crowded House? Why shouldn’t they be allowed to attempt to reach new audiences and achieve higher levels of commercial and critical success?

I find it funny how some fans become Uber-Purists who believe they know more and better, than the actual artists who’s  work they so passionately adore.

I get it, we’re all surprised, shocked even with this announcement. Nobody on this forum is happy to see Mark gone from the lineup, but lets wait until all the pieces fall into place and more information is disclosed, before we start questioning the integrity or motives of Neil Finn or Nick Seymour.

Neil and Nick can do whatever they want with their “brand”.  I don’t have to like it and I don’t have to follow along.

I’ve abandoned plenty of bands who have become brands over the many years I have been a music fan.  Fleetwood Mac among them.

I may be romantic, but I’m not naive.  And my music dollars will flow to those who are consistent with my ideals.  Trust me, there are plenty of them still around.

If one more person tells me to “trust Neil” I’m going to throw up. Yeah, I know there is more to this than we know, but gimme a break. Like we’re not supposed to question his decisions because he’s some kind of God. Come on, people. I question everything. It would be really nice to know WHY this all happened and whether or not it’s permanent or temporary. 

All I know is that this doesn’t feel like Crowded House to ME.

Havelin posted:

If one more person tells me to “trust Neil” I’m going to throw up. Yeah, I know there is more to this than we know, but gimme a break. Like we’re not supposed to question his decisions because he’s some kind of God. Come on, people. I question everything. It would be really nice to know WHY this all happened and whether or not it’s permanent or temporary. 

All I know is that this doesn’t feel like Crowded House to ME.

Well said ! Mark trusted Neil . How did that work out ?

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

brownie posted

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

I hate to break it to you, but many bands do in fact become brands once they achieve a certain status and level of commercial success. 

This doesn’t happen because I personally want it to (so don’t make it personal), it happens because the music ‘industry’ works this way, and as fans we play an integral part in making this possible. Think The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, U2, Coldplay, Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac and yes even our beloved Crowded House (just to name a few). These are brands that make millions of $’s whether it be on Royalties, Merchandise, Albums/Downloads or Concert tickets ( for those that actively tour).

So the idea that bands are simply in it for the love of music is very romantic but also naive. 

Make no mistake, Neil and Nick are (and deserve to be) looking to maximize the exposure and profit of their next project (whatever it may be).

Why shouldn’t they call it Crowded House? Why shouldn’t they be allowed to attempt to reach new audiences and achieve higher levels of commercial and critical success?

I find it funny how some fans become Uber-Purists who believe they know more and better, than the actual artists who’s  work they so passionately adore.

I get it, we’re all surprised, shocked even with this announcement. Nobody on this forum is happy to see Mark gone from the lineup, but lets wait until all the pieces fall into place and more information is disclosed, before we start questioning the integrity or motives of Neil Finn or Nick Seymour.

Well it’s funny you should say that ! One person who has never seemed to maximise commercial potential at the expense of integrity is Neil - otherwise everything he ever did would have been called Crowded House , as EMI wanted him to do . 

Whats changed ? Does Neil ( or Nick ) need the money ?!

This is sad. I call it the Fleetwood Mac effect though. Fleetwood Mac are up to their 19th (and I think last, lineup). Crowded House are now onto their 6th. 

I don’t really understand the motivation, but my wild speculation is that this Fleetwood Mac tour will be the last. Stevie And Christine (and John) have no desire to make new music and are ready to retire but Mick Fleetwood wants to keep going. It could be what started out as Fleetwood Mac 19 morphs into Crowded House 6.

The band being Neil, Nick, Mitchell Froom, and Mick Fleetwood (perhaps with either Mike Campbell or Johnny Marr also coming on board).

I get the bringing of Mick Fleetwood in - he and Neil have become tight and Mick wanted Neil to be involved in making new Mac music. Apparently they have been working on ideas. Imagine the publicity if/when Fleetwood Mac call it a day to announce that Mick (and possibly Mike) will join Neil and Nick in a new Crowded House.

New music with that lineup is an exciting prospect (and we can debate whether it should be called CH or not).

(My wild speculation continues) I guess Neil felt that if Matt wasn’t going to be required, he may as well do a major shake-up. I really feel for Mark, but Crowded House has always been Neil’s band and maybe he sees an opportunity for one last shot for Crowded House to get recognition it never really got. It was on the verge on that when Neil broke it up (crushing Nicks hopes and dreams in the process). If the band were to include Fleetwood and Marr, it really would be recognized as a “super group”. Maybe now that Neil has had the Fleetwood Mac opportunity of playing massive arenas, he wants Nick to have the same. Maybe if Tim comes on board, he finally gets to live the dream he originally had for the Enz as well.

This is complete wild speculation though. For all we know, this is just for the one off gig, but I still don’t get why Mark would be cast aside unless there was a bigger picture at play.

Neither Tim or Neil have ever been sentimental in making decisions relating to the Enz or CH. Mark has always been a fan favorite (what is not to love about the guy?!), but out of 6 studio albums, he only really fully participated in 2 of them (Together Alone and Intriguer). 

I have no doubt that Neil would have made the decision for creative not personal reasons. Maybe he has a clear vision for one last version of Crowded House, and musically Mark just didn’t fit. Together Alone was a masterpiece, and maybe with Mark in the band, it felt like a burden of making the the magic happen again. They tried with Intriguer and maybe Neil felt that something didn’t work right in the studio second time around (that album took forever to get finished and arguably the best song versions didn’t make the album) and Mark is the scapegoat.

I am clutching at straws here trying to find a positive but it makes no sense to drop Mark if CH’s future is just one off gigs (the band have never sounded better than they did at the Sydney Opera House gigs). Maybe it is due to the musical direction Neil wants a new CH album to go down and he sees Mitchell Froom as more important to the classic Crowded House sound than Mark Hart...

Alternatively Neil, may also being merging the family band with Crowded House and we get Neil, Nick, Mitchell, Liam and Elroy. I kind of understand it (but don’t agree with it or like it) for one off shows. But why get Mark and Matt over to NZ for rehearsals etc... for just one gig, when Neil can practice with the family and he has Mitchell Froom over in NZ anyway finishing off the secret new Finn Brothers album that has been happening in the background...

I guess only time will tell..

Whysus posted:

This is sad. I call it the Fleetwood Mac effect though. Fleetwood Mac are up to their 19th (and I think last, lineup). Crowded House are now onto their 6th. 

I don’t really understand the motivation, but my wild speculation is that this Fleetwood Mac tour will be the last. Stevie And Christine (and John) have no desire to make new music and are ready to retire but Mick Fleetwood wants to keep going. It could be what started out as Fleetwood Mac 19 morphs into Crowded House 6.

The band being Neil, Nick, Mitchell Froom, and Mick Fleetwood (perhaps with either Mike Campbell or Johnny Marr also coming on board).

I get the bringing of Mick Fleetwood in - he and Neil have become tight and Mick wanted Neil to be involved in making new Mac music. Apparently they have been working on ideas. Imagine the publicity if/when Fleetwood Mac call it a day to announce that Mick (and possibly Mike) will join Neil and Nick in a new Crowded House.

New music with that lineup is an exciting prospect (and we can debate whether it should be called CH or not).

(My wild speculation continues) I guess Neil felt that if Matt wasn’t going to be required, he may as well do a major shake-up. I really feel for Mark, but Crowded House has always been Neil’s band and maybe he sees an opportunity for one last shot for Crowded House to get recognition it never really got. It was on the verge on that when Neil broke it up (crushing Nicks hopes and dreams in the process). If the band were to include Fleetwood and Marr, it really would be recognized as a “super group”. Maybe now that Neil has had the Fleetwood Mac opportunity of playing massive arenas, he wants Nick to have the same. Maybe if Tim comes on board, he finally gets to live the dream he originally had for the Enz as well.

This is complete wild speculation though. For all we know, this is just for the one off gig, but I still don’t get why Mark would be cast aside unless there was a bigger picture at play.

Neither Tim or Neil have ever been sentimental in making decisions relating to the Enz or CH. Mark has always been a fan favorite (what is not to love about the guy?!), but out of 6 studio albums, he only really fully participated in 2 of them (Together Alone and Intriguer). 

I have no doubt that Neil would have made the decision for creative not personal reasons. Maybe he has a clear vision for one last version of Crowded House, and musically Mark just didn’t fit. Together Alone was a masterpiece, and maybe with Mark in the band, it felt like a burden of making the the magic happen again. They tried with Intriguer and maybe Neil felt that something didn’t work right in the studio second time around (that album took forever to get finished and arguably the best song versions didn’t make the album) and Mark is the scapegoat.

I am clutching at straws here trying to find a positive but it makes no sense to drop Mark if CH’s future is just one off gigs (the band have never sounded better than they did at the Sydney Opera House gigs). Maybe it is due to the musical direction Neil wants a new CH album to go down and he sees Mitchell Froom as more important to the classic Crowded House sound than Mark Hart...

Alternatively Neil, may also being merging the family band with Crowded House and we get Neil, Nick, Mitchell, Liam and Elroy. I kind of understand it (but don’t agree with it or like it) for one off shows. But why get Mark and Matt over to NZ for rehearsals etc... for just one gig, when Neil can practice with the family and he has Mitchell Froom over in NZ anyway finishing off the secret new Finn Brothers album that has been happening in the background...

I guess only time will tell..

Good post . CH with Fleetwood Campbell and Marr horrifies me . Adding his sons only slightly less so . 

Itll be Liam and Elroy , hence no need for Mark and Matt . Hugely dissapointing .

Mariola posted:

stuartjb posted:

brownie posted:

What can I say?  In my opinion, Mark made what I consider to be an essential contribution to the sound of Together Alone, which is my favorite album ever.  Yes, they’re Neil’s songs, but it was the combination of Neil and Nick and Mark and Paul that brought them to life.  

I would be more accepting of this if it was Mark who decided to bow out, but his tweet seems to make it clear that it was Neil’s decision.

Perhaps the “new Crowded House” will create some great new music, but they should find another name because it ain’t Crowded House!

A band is not a brand.  Ugh at the thought.

Absolutley spot on

Also here! If I may give individual credits for best album ever, Together Alone, it would be:

1. Neil Finn

2. Producer Youth

3. Mark Hart

I’d put Mark ahead of youth 

Paul H posted:

This is remarkable news. I'm somewhat in shock and feel extremely sorry for Mark. In my humble opinion (FWIW) he's been shoddily treated by Neil for a great many years. As much as Neil can often be extremely gracious and humble - and is clearly well-liked by a great many people - I think the way he's treated Mark over most of CH's career has been a real blot on his record. 

I will, of course, continue to show an interest in everything he does but he seems keen to chip away at the CH legacy with every turn. 

I couldn’t have summed up my own feelings  better if I’d tried . 

It’s a little confusing how Neil says on Fangradio that Mark “will not be joining us for these shows.” That seems like an intentionally open-ended phrasing. Maybe he’s just being oblique out of politeness, rather than bluntly saying “I’ve sacked him.” It’s just a notable contrast from Mark’s posting which really seems like he’s out of the band for good.

I’m really disappointed to hear this, in any case. Mark is great and a huge part of the CH story. I just hope he’s not going to fill parts in with Liam and Elroy...no offense to them, they’re really solid and talented. It just seems like CH is the last of Neil’s projects to be a distinct entity from his family (I know Liam has played with them but it was as a utility guy) and I hope that remains true.

All I know about the subject is what I have read on here, but the first thing I thought was Mark had his tongue in his cheek when he tweeted. Maybe Mark couldn't make it because of prior commitments and he was alluding to the kerfuffle around Neil's inclusion in Fleetwood Mac when he claimed he had been sacked. 

BRANDO BRANDT posted:

So the idea that bands are simply in it for the love of music is very romantic but also naive. 

Make no mistake, Neil and Nick are (and deserve to be) looking to maximize the exposure and profit of their next project (whatever it may be).

Why shouldn’t they call it Crowded House? Why shouldn’t they be allowed to attempt to reach new audiences and achieve higher levels of commercial and critical success?

I find it funny how some fans become Uber-Purists who believe they know more and better, than the actual artists who’s  work they so passionately adore.

Personally, I don't see it as "knowing more" or being naive. Music is a commodity, but it also has the capacity to stir emotions. It isn't just product. And I think its mildly patronising to those who invested their emotions heavily in the work of any band to call them naive when they complain at how that band's reputation is being used.

I don't know the legal side of things. I strongly suspect that once Capitol's original deal with Crowded House (to which Neil, Paul and Nick were signatories) ended, Neil took sole ownership of the band name. As a result, I suspect that anyone (including Nick) is now merely a salaried employee of Neil's. In that situation, it's clearly Neil's call as to who is in (or out) of CH.

But there's a wider point here: CH generated a massive amount of goodwill among its fanbase. Goodwill that has sustained Neil's solo career far longer than that of many of his contemporaries. And that goodwill was generated as much by the personality and musical ability of the other members of CH as it was by Neil and his songwriting. Neil acknowledged that back in 1998 when he refused to continue to use the band name for his solo work. It was something I was immensely grateful to him for doing, because it also acknowledged the he was aware of the emotional connection the band had made with people like me.

His decision to release Time on Earth as a CH album and now his decision to just jettison MH suggests to me that Neil has long since disregarded the special connection he, Nick, Paul and Mark made with their fanbase. And that saddens me.

Of course, from a practical point of view, I'm not sure what else he can do. If he wants to work with Nick, his choice is to either rehearse a show's worth of material that will be new to Nick (and which, of course, Neil quite publicly chose not to work with him on in the first place) or rehearse and play CH songs. And if Neil and Nick are on stage playing CH songs, well, it would be bizarre not to bill the band as CH...

I might get flak for saying this. On the positive outlook: Neil must have the idea to inject more life in the band possibly with more youth or enthusiasm...make Crowded House come alive more in shows and on record. I really like Mark Hart as a musician and person (he was really nice and genuine when meeting him at the Winnipeg show). The thing I found was the missing element of more enthusiasm and crowded house craziness that left with the passing of Paul Hester. I found that Mark had the missing element of being more enthusiastic/energetic..being more reserved of the many many musicians I have seen over the decades. Matt being so what the same. Especially for Crowded House, I feel it takes away from a big element of what the band has been about. That aspect brought by Paul will never be replaced but can be somewhat brought back more. Neil’s sons might fill that role in spades...and be probably be just as or more adept musicians too. 

I agree with "more energy" and possibly Neil not having to do all the entertainment between songs on his own.

Still disagree with his sons being able to bring that (possibly because they just wouldn't be equals, not sure). 

As far as any "legal" side goes... well I'm not sure if this a legal thing exactly, but I think Neil is the band leader.

The more I think about this, the more I think there has to be something more going on. It makes no sense to dismiss Mark and replace him with Mitchell Froom. Froom is first and foremost a producer, not a band member (particularly for a one off concert).

You wouldn’t specifically bring Froom in for a live performance ahead of Mark. It makes no sense unless Neil had already planned to be doing something with Froom at that time. 

(Wild speculation time again) That makes me think that there may be a Froom produced Crowded House album planned. We already know that Froom doesn’t consider Mark to be a key ingredient to the classic CH sound. He didn’t want him for Woodface and then reduced his involvement in the Recurring Dream tracks. 

Maybe Neil and Froom got discussing the prospect of working together on a new CH album (potentially after a planned FM one with Froom fell through again). Froom once again told Neil that he didn’t see Mark being required. Mark either needs to be 100% in the band, or out altogether - you can’t deny him being an active participant in a new album then just roll him out for concerts. Neil could of said that if Froom wanted Mark out for the album then he would have to replace Mark on live performances himself.

Again, just speculation... But it is hard to make sense of this.

This does raise an interesting question though, who is more important to the essence of Crowded House - Hart or Froom?

Froom was largely responsible for shaping the original CH sound (going back to StuartJB’s Beatles analogy - he was the George Martin) with the first 3 albums. 

Hart became a full member for Together Alone onwards when Froom has no involvement.

It’s seems that you can either have Hart or Froom involved with CH but not both for whatever reason (I am guessing, creative differences). It looks like Neil has gone with Froom.

Again, this makes no sense unless there is an album at play. If Neil and Nick wanted to perform together and bill it as CH without getting Mark and Matt onboard, Neil could have grabbed Eddie Rayner, Elroy or any number of others who have been in or around CH in the past and who would be in the Southern Hemisphere at the time. 

I am still confused by it and just trying to make some sense. It is one thing to play with Nick for a gig in Aussie, call it CH, not include the guys who weren’t part of the original band and grab some fill ins (be it family or friends), but it is another thing to fly in a Producer from America who was so instrumental in the first 3 albums, and have him play the gig at the expense of the guy who he doesn’t rate, despite being an integral member since 1993.

I can only see the logic if there is a new Mitchell Froom produced album on the horizon.

What would everyone's "ideal" new lineup be?

That's a tough question, because I would start with the drummer.  The only perfect candidate is not available.

Next, why doesn't Matt sit right with me?  I don't think it's his playing, necessarily; I think it's the production.  Listen to "There Goes God" from the live CD and tell me you've ever heard anything remotely like that from Matt.  Given the sound of everything in the last 10 years, I have to believe that's all Neil's choice.

That leads me to believe that Neil doesn't want "Crowded House" to be "Crowded House", and so we have to either accept what he does want, or just listen to our old bootlegs.

Another positive to this whole thing is that Neil still is serious about Crowded House and making the band be still relevant.  St his age, most artists would just go with the flow and what is comfy. It looks like he wants to take the band to a higher level or else he wouldn’t make a change again. I for one found Intriguer sounding somewhat stale and too over produced...a sound of a band sounding old and not relevant. Sone good stuff on there for sure but I want something with more life/raw and rocking at times. And not sounding over produced. I hope it is going to go in that direction with this change. Like someone said, Neil may have seen what he can do for Fleetwood Mac and thought Crowded House need a good shot in the arm too. Probably thinks this is one last shot at this to get it right...especially now that more people have heard of him and his music. 

stuartjb posted:

Imagine the scenario in 1995 . Paul - “ hey George , we’ve got this John Lennon Demo they want us to finish off to make a final recording . I hope you don’t mind , but me and Ringo have decided we are going to get Carlos Santana to play on it instead of you . Youre my dear friend and I love you - hope you understand “ ... 🙄

I’ve been thinking about this analogy after seeing Froom as George Martin in a Beatles/CH comparison. I struggle to see Mark as George though as unlike Mark, George had been a Beatle from the very start.

I think it might be more like if Billy Preston was made an official Beatle for Let It Be and the album ended up being the best thing the Beatles did. Spector got a fair bit of the credit for the new sound but having Preston on keys was seen as a really cool development for the Beatles and the fans loved him because he was so quiet and humble. The Beatles then still broke up after the album.

After John’s death, the Beatles reformed and made another couple of albums in the 80s (without George Martin or Phil Spector) and Billy played a significant part on the albums and on stage at the gigs. He didn’t just do keys anymore, he was a multi instrumentalist who could also cover Johns backing vocals. Now it was hard to imagine the Beatles without him. But Paul and George’s solo careers were at the fore, and they described the Beatles as a beautiful old car up in blocks that they could get down when they wanted.

Then in 1995, Paul and George found a John demo and went to George Martin and said how about we get together with Ringo and Billy and finish it. George Martin says “great idea, but we don’t need Billy for this.” Paul then tells Billy “George wants to take the band back to its roots like when he produced us - I’m really excited about doing that, so sorry you are no longer a Beatle”...

The fans were outraged because Billy had still been a big contributor to their greatest album (some would say more do than Spector) and had been a key member of the band since John’s death. The remaining Beatles and George Martin would need to make something pretty magical to be worth sacrificing Billy...

If its a different drummer how about Phil Selway if he's avaialble?

My point was, it doesn't matter who the drummer is if Neil is going to apply Pajama Club style production to everything he does.

Would love Pajama Club style production...that is what Crowded House needs. That PJ album is the closest thing to the genius of Together Alone that Neil has created.