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First, one report does not an official announcement make, re: Liam and Elroy. 

But if that is true: Elroy's drumming on the Neil Finn/Paul Kelly tour was outstanding, and I can imagine it working extremely well.  I would rather it were an actual band, with Matt and Mark, but if it’s going to be Neil and Friends Playing Crowded House Songs, Elroy is as good a fit as we could want. See his drumming on Won’t Give In from Goin Your Way for a good example (I know it’s not a Crowdies song, but it’s a good example of why I think his playing works well with Neil).

Liam, on the other hand - he’s done good things with Neil live, but when he toured with CH in 2007, he tended to add extraneous parts to thinks which weren’t necessary (e.g. Mean to Me and World Where You Live do not need acoustic rhythm guitar), and made the songs weirdly busy mostly so Liam had something to do.

I would take Elroy over, for instance, Mick Fleetwood. Though if this *does* turn out to be the arrangement, then the early 2017 shows where Nick played bass were as much Crowded House as these will be. Hell, perhaps they were better as they also had the rest of Neil’s catalog to draw from.

If the above-reported new CH lineup is indeed true, the one big question I have is why do Liam and Elroy even want to join Crowded House?  It’s one thing to play with your dad from time to time, but these are adult men in their 30’s.  Surely at some point they should want to just do their own thing?  This seems like a step backwards for them in some ways.  Not necessarily musically, but surely in becoming independent individuals?  I dunno, seems odd to me.

I'm not going to question Beatlebum too harshly since there's really little incentive to come on here and spread a rumour that could be false. But, apart from Matt's dismissal, it doesn't make sense since Neil can (and does) work with his sons in various other projects. 

So...what's the distinction for Neil in writing if they are going to be in Crowded House? Will everything just be Crowded House? 

It's the same reason that I never saw the sense in Tom Petty having 'solo' albums; he ended up recording with the Heartbreakers on those records with the same producer while the sound on those records weren't worlds apart from a Heartbreakers record. 

Last edited by TryWhistlingThis
TryWhistlingThis posted:

I'm not going to question Beatlebum too harshly since there's really little incentive to come on here and spread a rumour that could be false. But, apart from Matt's dismissal, it doesn't make sense since Neil can (and does) work with his sons in various other projects. 

So...what's the distinction for Neil in writing if they are going to be in Crowded House? Will everything just be Crowded House? 

It's the same reason that I never saw the sense in Tom Petty having 'solo' albums; he ended up recording with the Heartbreakers on those records with the same producer while the sound on those records weren't worlds apart from a Heartbreakers record. 

Nail . On . The .Head . 

 

If this is the case , why didn’t he just do this in 1997 when the record company wanted him to . Seems kind of pointless now .

Thom Bullock posted:

First, one report does not an official announcement make, re: Liam and Elroy. 

But if that is true: Elroy's drumming on the Neil Finn/Paul Kelly tour was outstanding, and I can imagine it working extremely well.  I would rather it were an actual band, with Matt and Mark, but if it’s going to be Neil and Friends Playing Crowded House Songs, Elroy is as good a fit as we could want. See his drumming on Won’t Give In from Goin Your Way for a good example (I know it’s not a Crowdies song, but it’s a good example of why I think his playing works well with Neil).

Liam, on the other hand - he’s done good things with Neil live, but when he toured with CH in 2007, he tended to add extraneous parts to thinks which weren’t necessary (e.g. Mean to Me and World Where You Live do not need acoustic rhythm guitar), and made the songs weirdly busy mostly so Liam had something to do.

I would take Elroy over, for instance, Mick Fleetwood. Though if this *does* turn out to be the arrangement, then the early 2017 shows where Nick played bass were as much Crowded House as these will be. Hell, perhaps they were better as they also had the rest of Neil’s catalog to draw from.

Just why call it Crowded House ?!

Paināporo posted:

If Neil is planning to use Mitchell Froom for keyboards instead of Mark Hart, I think that's a perfectly acceptable choice. For many years Mark was the unofficial 4th member of the touring band, but he was playing Mitchell's parts. Mitchell was really the unofficial 4th member of the studio band for the first three albums. All that changed for Together Alone of course and Mark got to compose and perform his own parts in the studio for a change. 

I love Mark and I love his playing but Mitchell's work with the band is equally (or arguably more) legendary. So, I'm keeping an open mind. I don't think Neil is saying Mark will never be part of Crowded House again, but I'm up for a different incarnation of the band. Though I too would be unimpressed if it turned out to just be Liam and Elroy. 

Prepare to be unimpressed then ! 

 

I also think Marks note makes it clear ( certainly in his mind ) that he’s permanently out . 

(Why change a band that’s been dormant for years anyway ?! Just start something new !)

It speaks volumes about the respect and goodwill that many folk have towards Mark not only as a musician but as a decent good bloke.

The name 'Crowded House' has always struck me highly ironic at best an extreme oxymoron at worst. The first 5 years of the band's life was as a trio; the second 5 years was as a quartet. A phenomenal live band all the way through, and THE blueprint for all of those Unplugged albums that surfaced long after Crowded House appeared when they were masters of the acoustic performance. However, never did they record their albums as a trio or as a quartet. I have yet to understand why or how a phenomenal band such as this always needed a plethora of session musicians on their own records. It's not a criticism; just a puzzle to me. The band has always been a centerpiece for Neil even though I still love what Paul and Nick brought to the sound, arrangements, and performances of all those songs. There was character; a soul; a sense of humour and great life to Crowded House that ultimately was bigger than the sum of its individuals (& I mean this with a lot of courtesy and respect to Neil). This included Mark as well when he officially became a band member; a real band rather than just another group with an obvious leader.

I mentioned a few days ago that I was wary about the new lineup being a possibility of Neil with Others + Nick. Should the listing of Messrs. Froom + Finn + Finn Joining Messrs. Seymour and Finn come to fruition, then I wish them well. The House is becoming full of tenants and that is the landlord's terms; nobody has to agree with it or listen if they don't wish to. Paul McCartney decided when forming Wings would be a band where everyone was equal even though everyone in the world except Paul knew that this wasn't the case. There were at least 3 lineups that I can recall but Paul still called the collective Wings just as Neil has the title of Crowded House. It's ironic that Paul has toured with the same lineup of musicians since 2001 and the instrumentation is identical to Wings....but he doesn't use the Wings moniker anymore. An earlier thread asked 'Why call it Crowded House?' which I think is very pertinent as it isn't a Crowded House that I know of. I remember living in London between 'Recurring Dream' and 'Try Whistling This'; there was huge goodwill towards Crowded House everywhere but Neil was resisting the name (as I recall) in order to have a clear launch for his solo career (advertising was filled with 'The Voice of Crowded House!'). Therefore, why bring the name back in 2020 which is ten years after their final studio album? It will be interesting when we hear the full story one day...if we hear it.

Has anyone noticed that Neil joined his current band to help replace a very forthright singer/guitarist/songwriter? Very similar to why he joined Split Enz(!).

This makes me think it is just a one off gig, based on a few stars aligning where Mitchell and Nick were going to be down south over Easter and the Blues Festival presented them with a chance to get together and play a gig.

Why not bill it as Crowded House if you have the 3 of them? All you are missing is Paul from the pre-Woodface CH (and. While Froom was never a member of the live band, he was instrumental to the sound of the first 3 albums.

Also, it’s been noted that Mark and Mitchell were not particularly compatible, so it would have been a weird dynamic to have Mark on stage with Mitchell. Also, if it was just making the most of an opportunity of the 3 of them going to be in the same part of the world at the same time, it probably doesn’t make much sense to get Mark and Matt to fly over for one gig anyway.

So left with the challenge of needing somebody to cover drums and guitars, it is very convenient that Neil’s sons are pretty handy on both and were also going to be around. Oh... and they cover the backing vocals and harmonies pretty well too. 

I could see Crowded House being Neil, Nick and Mitchell while Liam and Elroy fill the gaps (in the same way The Who are now Daltrey and Townsend, supported  by a backing band.) If this is for a one off gig, I don’t have a problem with it. 

I can’t imagine Neil properly reforming CH to record and tour with Elroy and Liam in the band - they have their own careers and I can’t see them wanting to do that.

The big question for me remains - what is Mitchell Froom going to be doing down here. I don’t believe for a minute he was recruited by Neil to fly over for a one off gig at the expense of Mark.

I think it is more likely that he has planned to be working at RoundHead Studio before and/or after the gig. This does make me wonder if Neil will be attempting to record with Fleetwood Mac with Michell Froom producing... 

Whysus posted:

This makes me think it is just a one off gig, based on a few stars aligning where Mitchell and Nick were going to be down south over Easter and the Blues Festival presented them with a chance to get together and play a gig.

Why not bill it as Crowded House if you have the 3 of them? All you are missing is Paul from the pre-Woodface CH (and. While Froom was never a member of the live band, he was instrumental to the sound of the first 3 albums.

Also, it’s been noted that Mark and Mitchell were not particularly compatible, so it would have been a weird dynamic to have Mark on stage with Mitchell. Also, if it was just making the most of an opportunity of the 3 of them going to be in the same part of the world at the same time, it probably doesn’t make much sense to get Mark and Matt to fly over for one gig anyway.

So left with the challenge of needing somebody to cover drums and guitars, it is very convenient that Neil’s sons are pretty handy on both and were also going to be around. Oh... and they cover the backing vocals and harmonies pretty well too. 

I could see Crowded House being Neil, Nick and Mitchell while Liam and Elroy fill the gaps (in the same way The Who are now Daltrey and Townsend, supported  by a backing band.) If this is for a one off gig, I don’t have a problem with it. 

I can’t imagine Neil properly reforming CH to record and tour with Elroy and Liam in the band - they have their own careers and I can’t see them wanting to do that.

The big question for me remains - what is Mitchell Froom going to be doing down here. I don’t believe for a minute he was recruited by Neil to fly over for a one off gig at the expense of Mark.

I think it is more likely that he has planned to be working at RoundHead Studio before and/or after the gig. This does make me wonder if Neil will be attempting to record with Fleetwood Mac with Michell Froom producing... 

Why call it Crowded House then ? Just bill it as Neil Finn..

stuartjb posted:

Why call it Crowded House then ? Just bill it as Neil Finn..

Because of Nick.

Remember "Time On Earth" started as a Neil solo album with Nick playing bass, then it was released as Crowded House. Whereas Neil's other solo albums did not include Nick.

So the question is not "Why call the band Crowded House ?" rather "How can we NOT call the band Crowded House ?" when the only surviving original members are playing together.

If what has been said above about Matt being gone as well, and Elroy/Liam filling in the gaps that's both entirely predictable and just plain disappointing. What Neil has said in the past about bands and the spirit of bands seems to have entirely disappeared in favour of the bank balance - which is, of course, entirely Neil's choice but let's not pretend Neil+Nick and a few mediocre musicians sharing the same name as Neil is anything to do with the Crowded House we all remember.

 

IainK posted:

If what has been said above about Matt being gone as well, and Elroy/Liam filling in the gaps that's both entirely predictable and just plain disappointing. What Neil has said in the past about bands and the spirit of bands seems to have entirely disappeared in favour of the bank balance - which is, of course, entirely Neil's choice but let's not pretend Neil+Nick and a few mediocre musicians sharing the same name as Neil is anything to do with the Crowded House we all remember.

 

Yep Neil for me has done a 180 !

Whysus posted:

I think it is more likely that he has planned to be working at RoundHead Studio before and/or after the gig. This does make me wonder if Neil will be attempting to record with Fleetwood Mac with Michell Froom producing... 

Of all the things being mooted here, this is potentially a very good prospect. An album of Finn/Campbell/McVie/Nicks tracks recorded with Froom certainly has lots of elements that would make it likely to succeed. 

It’s about 350th on the list of things I would have chosen for Neil to do next, but I’d bet I’d like the result.

Beatlebum posted:


Anyhow, with all the talk about Mark Hart being fired, it’s also true that Matt Sherrod has been fired.
Unofficially their replacements are:

Liam Finn - guitars  (possible keyboards as well)
Elroy Finn - drums  (possible guitars as well)
Mitchell Froom - keyboards
Sharon Finn - bass (just joking, lookout Nick)


If its true, if its not some joke from Beatlebum (mostly because Sharon Finn on drumms? what about Nick, Neil confirmed he will be a part of new CH?) or just deliberately left missrumour, its definitely not Crowded House... its Neil Finn & Family. Or Neil Finn & Momos & Sons

Product of that collaboration we know from Neil & Liams Lightsleeper, Meet me in the Air.. Altough I like this song and consider it one of the best from particular album, its very far from anything Crowded House ever did.. TOE and Intriguer with AfterGlow included..hope we wont see that scenario under the name of Crowded House...

As sad as I am to hear of Mark’s departure, I can’t help but speculate. 

Neil toured Australia with Nick a couple years ago and the rest of the band was Finn Scholes, Dan Kelly, and Elroy. That was a really strong lineup and I wouldn’t mind seeing it’s return, though I’d prefer it if Matt stayed on as drummer.

Also, Mark should start a band with Lindsey Buckingham...

Beatlebum posted:

Hi folks,

I’m new here and joined so I could post some pertinent information about the new Crowded House line-up. I used to be involved with them in a professional manner many years ago and still maintain contact with some of the band & crew. This is how I found out.
Anyhow, with all the talk about Mark Hart being fired, it’s also true that Matt Sherrod has been fired.
Unofficially their replacements are:

Liam Finn - guitars  (possible keyboards as well)
Elroy Finn - drums  (possible guitars as well)
Mitchell Froom - keyboards
Sharon Finn - bass (just joking, lookout Nick)

So there we have it, the new Crowded House members. It will be a pretty good band and Neil Finn usually knows what he is doing. I’m sure that an official announcement will be made as soon as the time is right.
I’m so sorry for Mark & Matt. They are awesome folks and very good musicians. Crowded House won’t be the same without them.

Thank you for reading,
Beatlebum

Hi Lindsey 🙄😏

 

 

Well. This all has me feeling fairly disgusted. I’m not really a Liam fan, but more importantly, in one fell swoop the concept of Crowded House has become fairly meaningless.

I’ve always defended Time on Earth, because although it didn’t begin life as a CH album, that aspect seemed to develop organically and in good spirit and remembrance of Paul. Only four tracks fully featured the band, but Mark did some overdubs and it all *felt* like Crowded House to me, both the songwriting style and the musical vibe. And they did the work of casting a wide net to find a drummer who was not only excellent but complemented the band’s chemistry.

This is different. TOE arose from a time when CH technically no longer existed in any form, so I feel they had much more leeway in how the name was resurrected. But now...the new lineup was well established with two albums and tours, the anniversary show and the ARIA award. It’s an entirely different prospect to f*** with the formula at this point. And Neil is doing that in the worst way possible, in my view.

I’ve been chuckling at spurned Fleetwood Mac fans who say “It’s not FM without Lindsey Buckingham.” Well, I’m feeling something similar right now. I don’t know what this band is. It’s *kind of* Crowded House with Neil and Nick involved, but the inclusion of his sons kind of negates a lot of potential they might have as a band. It’s not a new dynamic or a well-curated audition process. Its just his sons, who are quite good musicians, but there’s zero interest or excitement there for me. Don’t get me started on Conan Mockasin...I’ve never given a **** about his music, frankly. I expect competent performances with zero of the CH magic that made the band special to me. For the first time in the 25 years I’ve followed them and Neil Finn, I’m just not able to keep my faith in him. Just an all around disappointing state of affairs. It feels like Crowded House as we knew them — even considering previous personnel shuffling — is well and truly gone, and that’s a sad thing.

Last edited by slowpogo
slowpogo posted:

Well. This all has me feeling fairly disgusted. I’m not really a Liam fan, but more importantly, in one fell swoop the concept of Crowded House has become fairly meaningless.

I’ve always defended Time on Earth, because although it didn’t begin life as a CH album, that aspect seemed to develop organically and in good spirit and remembrance of Paul. Only four tracks fully featured the band, but Mark did some overdubs and it all *felt* like Crowded House to me, both the songwriting style and the musical vibe. And they did the work of casting a wide net to find a drummer who was not only excellent but complemented the band’s chemistry.

This is different. TOE arose from a time when CH technically no longer existed in any form, so I feel they had much more leeway in how the name was resurrected. But now...the new lineup was well established with two albums and tours, the anniversary show and the ARIA award. It’s an entirely different prospect to f*** with the formula at this point. And Neil is doing that in the worst way possible, in my view.

I’ve been chuckling at spurned Fleetwood Mac fans who say “It’s not FM without Lindsey Buckingham.” Well, I’m feeling something similar right now. I don’t know what this band is. It’s *kind of* Crowded House with Neil and Nick involved, but the inclusion of his sons kind of negates a lot of potential they might have as a band. It’s not a new dynamic or a well-curated audition process. Its just his sons, who are quite good musicians, but there’s zero interest or excitement there for me. Don’t get me started on Conan Mockasin...I’ve never given a **** about his music, frankly. I expect competent performances with zero of the CH magic that made the band special to me. For the first time in the 25 years I’ve followed them and Neil Finn, I’m just not able to keep my faith in him. Just an all around disappointing state of affairs. It feels like Crowded House as we knew them — even considering previous personnel shuffling — is well and truly gone, and that’s a sad thing.

Spot on . This sums it up perfectly for me . One of the best posts I’ve read on here . Thank you .

We all know we will have to wait for official info and then judge the actual musical outcome on stage, an album, or whatever else will come.

It's just hard not to get all angry and pessimistic, because it matters to us. 

If there are people who try to deliberately cause a stir by claiming that our "worst case" scenarios are in fact true... We'll, that's a bit pathetic. It shouldn't drive us apart. 

The behaviour of some of the FM fans serves as a strong reminder for me (personally) to not go all ape-s**t before even having seen the outcome.

(Also: If we don't fully trust Neil due to some unpopular decisions in recent years, maybe we can trust Nick?) 

Last edited by Mica
slowpogo posted:

Well. This all has me feeling fairly disgusted. I’m not really a Liam fan, but more importantly, in one fell swoop the concept of Crowded House has become fairly meaningless.

I’ve always defended Time on Earth, because although it didn’t begin life as a CH album, that aspect seemed to develop organically and in good spirit and remembrance of Paul. Only four tracks fully featured the band, but Mark did some overdubs and it all *felt* like Crowded House to me, both the songwriting style and the musical vibe. And they did the work of casting a wide net to find a drummer who was not only excellent but complemented the band’s chemistry.

This is different. TOE arose from a time when CH technically no longer existed in any form, so I feel they had much more leeway in how the name was resurrected. But now...the new lineup was well established with two albums and tours, the anniversary show and the ARIA award. It’s an entirely different prospect to f*** with the formula at this point. And Neil is doing that in the worst way possible, in my view.

I’ve been chuckling at spurned Fleetwood Mac fans who say “It’s not FM without Lindsey Buckingham.” Well, I’m feeling something similar right now. I don’t know what this band is. It’s *kind of* Crowded House with Neil and Nick involved, but the inclusion of his sons kind of negates a lot of potential they might have as a band. It’s not a new dynamic or a well-curated audition process. Its just his sons, who are quite good musicians, but there’s zero interest or excitement there for me. Don’t get me started on Conan Mockasin...I’ve never given a **** about his music, frankly. I expect competent performances with zero of the CH magic that made the band special to me. For the first time in the 25 years I’ve followed them and Neil Finn, I’m just not able to keep my faith in him. Just an all around disappointing state of affairs. It feels like Crowded House as we knew them — even considering previous personnel shuffling — is well and truly gone, and that’s a sad thing.

While I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, at this point in time, the only information we have is from someone named “beatlebum” on a message board, who joined this community all of 3 days ago and has made exactly one post here.

brownie posted:
slowpogo posted:

Well. This all has me feeling fairly disgusted. I’m not really a Liam fan, but more importantly, in one fell swoop the concept of Crowded House has become fairly meaningless.

I’ve always defended Time on Earth, because although it didn’t begin life as a CH album, that aspect seemed to develop organically and in good spirit and remembrance of Paul. Only four tracks fully featured the band, but Mark did some overdubs and it all *felt* like Crowded House to me, both the songwriting style and the musical vibe. And they did the work of casting a wide net to find a drummer who was not only excellent but complemented the band’s chemistry.

This is different. TOE arose from a time when CH technically no longer existed in any form, so I feel they had much more leeway in how the name was resurrected. But now...the new lineup was well established with two albums and tours, the anniversary show and the ARIA award. It’s an entirely different prospect to f*** with the formula at this point. And Neil is doing that in the worst way possible, in my view.

I’ve been chuckling at spurned Fleetwood Mac fans who say “It’s not FM without Lindsey Buckingham.” Well, I’m feeling something similar right now. I don’t know what this band is. It’s *kind of* Crowded House with Neil and Nick involved, but the inclusion of his sons kind of negates a lot of potential they might have as a band. It’s not a new dynamic or a well-curated audition process. Its just his sons, who are quite good musicians, but there’s zero interest or excitement there for me. Don’t get me started on Conan Mockasin...I’ve never given a **** about his music, frankly. I expect competent performances with zero of the CH magic that made the band special to me. For the first time in the 25 years I’ve followed them and Neil Finn, I’m just not able to keep my faith in him. Just an all around disappointing state of affairs. It feels like Crowded House as we knew them — even considering previous personnel shuffling — is well and truly gone, and that’s a sad thing.

While I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, at this point in time, the only information we have is from someone named “beatlebum” on a message board, who joined this community all of 3 days ago and has made exactly one post here.

I also think its someones joke... good or bad, its on everyone to judge for himself... 

Mica posted:

We all know we will have to wait for official info and then judge the actual musical outcome on stage, an album, or whatever else will come.

It's just hard not to get all angry and pessimistic, because it matters to us. 

If there are people who try to deliberately cause a stir by claiming that our "worst case" scenarios are in fact true... We'll, that's a bit pathetic. It shouldn't drive us apart. 

The behaviour of some of the FM fans serves as a strong reminder for me (personally) to not go all ape-s**t before even having seen the outcome.

(Also: If we don't fully trust Neil due to some unpopular decisions in recent years, maybe we can trust Nick?) 

Until @Beatlebum provides convincing evidence to the contrary, I will treat him/her with utmost suspicion.

My guess would be that this person is one of a small clique of Lindsey Buckingham obsessives.

Anyone who's had the misfortune of encountering these people on social media will know that they are bat**** crazy. 

I wouldn't put anything past those weirdos. They are planning to ambush Neil on Fangradio with questions about FM and Buckingham's firing.  Stirring up trouble elsewhere would be a typical tactic they'd employ. Don't give them the satisfaction.  

Weightless Astronaut posted:

 

I wouldn't put anything past those weirdos. They are planning to ambush Neil on Fangradio with questions about FM and Buckingham's firing.   

Seriously?  Idiots.  They are barking up the wrong tree.  While I am no fan of the new Fleetwood Mac, and am firmly in the camp of “Lindsey got a raw deal,” I don’t think Neil had anything to do with firing Lindsey, and if does know anything, he’s surely not going to spill it all to some Skype callers.

I am so happy that my foray into social media never evolved beyond message boards like this.  

 

 

slowpogo posted:

I realize my reaction is based on a questionable source, but even so, it’s all too believable.

It is believable, that's the problem. We've come up with these horror scenarios ourselves, and for a reason, after all :-)

slowpogo posted:

I hope I’m wrong and Neil isn’t just collapsing into the easy, boring, un-artistic arms of nepotism. 

Now THAT is a beautiful way of putting it. 

When this person says: "So there we have it, the new Crowded House members. It will be a pretty good band and Neil Finn usually knows what he is doing. "  But before that "unofficial".  I don't know....either Neil or NIck are playing with us....having some fun.  Maybe intentionally creating a Beatles type of mystery to things.  Also, I have a feeling Neil would do this after possibly reading things about his family members and some people not in favor of being part of Crowded House.  I don't think Neil would seriously have a family member as part of this group.  I also don't think he would let go of Matt.  If he did let go of Mark, there must be a solid reason....but even that, I'm suspicious of now.  They might all be in on this joke.  

renzo posted:

When this person says: "So there we have it, the new Crowded House members. It will be a pretty good band and Neil Finn usually knows what he is doing. "  But before that "unofficial".  I don't know....either Neil or NIck are playing with us....having some fun.  Maybe intentionally creating a Beatles type of mystery to things.  Also, I have a feeling Neil would do this after possibly reading things about his family members and some people not in favor of being part of Crowded House.  I don't think Neil would seriously have a family member as part of this group.  I also don't think he would let go of Matt.  If he did let go of Mark, there must be a solid reason....but even that, I'm suspicious of now.  They might all be in on this joke.  

Neil has confirmed the situation with Mark, so I don't think there's any doubt about that aspect.  

As for Liam joining CH, I don't think that would be so terrible. He's is great at harmonising with Neil and he's a talented musician.

I'd rather Mark was still in the band because he's part of that link back to CH's most successful period, but if Liam is to be part of the band, I do think he has something to offer.  And it's Neil's band, so he can do what he likes. 

 

 

brownie posted:
Weightless Astronaut posted:

 

I wouldn't put anything past those weirdos. They are planning to ambush Neil on Fangradio with questions about FM and Buckingham's firing.   

Seriously?  Idiots.  They are barking up the wrong tree.  While I am no fan of the new Fleetwood Mac, and am firmly in the camp of “Lindsey got a raw deal,” I don’t think Neil had anything to do with firing Lindsey, and if does know anything, he’s surely not going to spill it all to some Skype callers.

I am so happy that my foray into social media never evolved beyond message boards like this.  

 

 

We are talking about a small group of extremely juvenile LB fans who declare themselves to have been avid Fleetwood Mac fans, but who now hate all but Buckingham.  They are quite extreme and LB is their deity.  

 

For the past 18 months these fools have posted an endless stream of drivel about LB's ousting on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.  They attack anyone who expresses a positive opinion about the FM personnel or the post-LB live performances.  By association, Neil is considered fair game.   It's usual to come across all kinds of pathetic people on social media, but this bunch take some beating!

Weightless Astronaut posted:
brownie posted:
Weightless Astronaut posted:

 

I wouldn't put anything past those weirdos. They are planning to ambush Neil on Fangradio with questions about FM and Buckingham's firing.   

Seriously?  Idiots.  They are barking up the wrong tree.  While I am no fan of the new Fleetwood Mac, and am firmly in the camp of “Lindsey got a raw deal,” I don’t think Neil had anything to do with firing Lindsey, and if does know anything, he’s surely not going to spill it all to some Skype callers.

I am so happy that my foray into social media never evolved beyond message boards like this.  

 

 

We are talking about a small group of extremely juvenile LB fans who declare themselves to have been avid Fleetwood Mac fans, but who now hate all but Buckingham.  They are quite extreme and LB is their deity.  

 

For the past 18 months these fools have posted an endless stream of drivel about LB's ousting on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.  They attack anyone who expresses a positive opinion about the FM personnel or the post-LB live performances.  By association, Neil is considered fair game.   It's usual to come across all kinds of pathetic people on social media, but this bunch take some beating!

This is getting further away from our subject (Mark Hart!), but this makes me smile.  I am a Fleetwood Mac fan, too, but it cracks me up to see Lindsey fans being characterized as crazies.  I'm sure there are some of them who fit that description, but in the 30-plus years I've been an FM fan, I've seen exponentially more Stevie Nicks crazies than I've seen Lindsey ones.  Just sayin'.

I mean, the woman (with support from Mick) destroyed one of the greatest bands in rock 'n' roll history, so I think fans have a right to be upset.

Just like fans have a right to be upset that Mark is no longer part of Crowded House.  But, really, even that comparison is a stretch, as much as I like and respect Mark and his contributions to CH.  Really, since Lindsey was both the band's producer and a major contributor to the songwriting, singing, and musicianship of the group, a better comparison would be like The Beatles kicking out George Harrison.  Hmm.  Even that one doesn't feel right.  Maybe like the Enz kicking out Neil?  Again, it's not a great comparison because Neil wasn't the band's sonic architect.

Bottom line, regardless of how they feel about the circumstances of Buckingham's dismissal (anyone who has read anything about the band's history knows he can be a terror in the studio every bit as much as Nicks can be a prima donna), blaming Neil for it is just silly.  I hope better thoughts prevail and those folks accept that Neil had nothing to do with Lindsey's firing.

On the other hand, looking at the CH situation, it's kinda sad to think that Neil is the Stevie Nicks to Mark's Lindsey.

And the idea that it's truly Neil's band is a hard one.  I mean, did anyone really ever doubt Neil's dominion over the band, going all the way back to Paul's "two dorks and a dictator" description of CH?

You know...I guess I did.  And that was my mistake.  I thought it was a band, but it was less so in Neil's mind.  Maybe things changed after Paul left, but maybe not.  Perhaps it was always Neil and whoever was with him at the time.

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they made some of the best music of the rock era.  And maybe they're not finished yet.

matt

mattl posted:

And the idea that it's truly Neil's band is a hard one.  I mean, did anyone really ever doubt Neil's dominion over the band, going all the way back to Paul's "two dorks and a dictator" description of CH?

Makes me think of a line in the Something So Strong book about the nature of Paul and Nick's contributions around the time Paul quit - what Paul was mainly doing on the road was increasing the value of Neil's publishing catalog, rather than earning anything much for himself. 

It seems reasonable to consider, in all of this, that Neil's work with CH from '07-'16 gave the impression of him having a sentimental attachment to the band that he really doesn't have. Which is fine, I suppose, it just takes us all a while to unwind from that.

The only thing we know for sure is that Neil, Nick and Mitchell Froom are getting together and playing a gig at the Byron Bay Blues Festival under the Crowded House name and that Mark has been advised by Neil that he is not required.

While I feel really bad for Mark, I’m still excited by this prospect. Mitchell Froom played a major part in the first 3 albums and in creating the early sound of Crowded House. I’ve really been enjoying re-listening to the deluxe versions of those albums in the last week.

Crowded House was a different beast when it came to Together Alone and Mark’s contribution was huge there. Mark is an incredible multi instrumentalist, vocalist and a producer in his own right (he produced a couple of tracks on Tim Finn’s  Before and After). In some ways it feels like after Woodface both Neil and Finn dropped Mitchell Froom for their next albums (Froom also produced Tim Finn) in search of a new direction and Mark seems to be in many ways the Froom replacement at that time.

I do find it a bit weird that Froom is playing live as part of CH, as I can’t recall him ever touring with them (but he was on keyboards for the 1990 MTV show and no doubt played some other one off shows). 

I don’t know we can say Mark has been ‘fired’ - he just isn’t included for this particular reunion. The saddest part is that Paul is no longer with us, so we will never hear the original CH play again. 

If Neil is going for a reunion of an older version of CH for a gig because Nick and Mitchell both happen to be around, it is pretty harsh on Matt and Mark but Neil has never said he is starting up CH as an active ongoing band again. He has said that he and Nick and Mitchell are performing as CH at the Blues Fest and Mark won’t be. For me, that is still a valid version of Crowded House. I don’t begrudge them performing under the name. If they need somebody on Drums and guitars, I don’t have a problem if it’s Liam and Elroy. They grew up on the road with CH. I would rather them than some random brought in for a one off show to fill a gap. I would also rather them than Matt in this instance. Matt is really special too, but he is part of the fabric and identity of the post 2007 Crowded House.

The gig could be really special if they did something like play TOLM in its entirety as part of it (I doubt it would happen, but that would be special). I would prefer that they didn’t play anything post 91 or at least kept it at a minimum out of respect for Mark and in recognition that it is an early Crowded House reunion gig.

I am just trying to keep as an open mind as possible until we have more information.

I completely agree with others that a new CH album that included Liam and Elroy as a key part of the band would be disappointing. But I see Neil, Nick and Mitchell getting together to perform (with some additional help to cover for Paul’s absence) as a celebration of the early years of CH.  

Similarly I would have no problem (not that it would ever happen!) if Phil Judd, Tim Finn, Mike Chunn, Emlyn Crowther, Eddie Rayner and Noel Crombie got together and performed as Split Enz and told Neil and Nigel that they weren’t going to be required.

Mariola posted:

So obsessed with that half-talented Lindsey guy??? What the heck... From pure curiosity I was watching some videos with this guy when he was in FM, and my conclusion is that 80s chew and spit out tones and tones similar musicians.. Neil Finn is for that guy Nikola Tesla!

I don’t think there’s any point being frustrated at Neil because Lindsay was fired, but that’s no reason for calling him half-talented.

It is possible to be both happy for Neil having such a good time in FM *and* irritated with Mick and Stevie for throwing the band’s lynchpin out on his ear.

The band has been dormant for most of the past decade. Neil has repeatedly used the ‘car in the garage’ analogy which is a gracious way of saying he’s more interested in pursuing other musical avenues. For him to now actually want to perform with Nick as Crowded House, means that there’s most likely a very reasonable and legitimate reason, which we will likely not know until early 2020.

Mitchell Froom’s involvement is the curveball in all this; don’t forget that Neil and Nick performed with Eddy Rayner and I believe Joey Waronker on drums, at some point prior to the 2007 official reunion.

I’ve already said this; I don’t think this is a one-off performance at Bluesfest next year. There has to be more to this and Mark’s departure cannot be resolved with Liam and Elroy’s inclusion in the band. I think it will be Mike Campbell and maybe someone else, who will complete the ‘new lineup’. 

I personally hope it’s not Mick Fleetwood on drums; I’ll take Liam or Elroy any day over the 70 year old version of MF (sorry).

 

 

Reading through everyone's reactions, they all seem valid and understandable. I think for me the main point is we've all made a deeply emotional connection to Crowded House; it's dynamics, the love, the losses. There is an attachment to that name, it does mean something to all of us. Something that is not Neil Finn, or Finn Brothers, of Pajama Club, or any other moniker. 

We've all gone along for the ride, through its mutations and additions, some natural, some tragic. This latest move, however, seems like something has finally concluded for me. Crowded House are no more. And I can accept that. It's just not possible, however, in my heart to ever think of any other line-up being Crowded House. There has to be some essence of history to it, something indescribable but you just know, that's Crowded House.

If your dad remarries and says you have to call this women Mum now, that doesn't make her your mum. Names matter. 

For me, Crowded House are the best band ever and the Sydney 2016 gigs were a spiritual experience, and I don't say that lightly. But any other reformation will not be Crowded House in my heart. And every one's heart is different. And that's okay.

 

Here's an odd thing: I was just - just - beginning to accept the notion that a band on stage featuring Neil, Nick, Mitchell and others might just be a valid version of CH when along comes some speculation - I'll call it that for now - that the "others" might in fact be the Finn family. And suddenly I can find no shred of acceptance that such a line-up would be CH. Any such line-up would be the Finn family with Nick. I think Perfectchord has hit the nail with the old mallet:

Perfectchord posted:

we've all made a deeply emotional connection to Crowded House; it's dynamics, the love, the losses. There is an attachment to that name, it does mean something to all of us. Something that is not Neil Finn, or Finn Brothers, of Pajama Club, or any other moniker. 

We've all gone along for the ride, through its mutations and additions, some natural, some tragic. This latest move, however, seems like something has finally concluded for me. Crowded House are no more. And I can accept that. It's just not possible, however, in my heart to ever think of any other line-up being Crowded House. There has to be some essence of history to it, something indescribable but you just know, that's Crowded House.

Last edited by Paul H

If you listen to the first thirty minutes of the latest instalment of Fangradio, it's perfectly apparent why Crowded House isn't a band that can merely have its members replaced on a whim. That's the sort of magic that nobody can bring to an audition. 

I'll finalise my thoughts of this decision by just telling you to listen to the first thirty minutes of today's Fangradio

TryWhistlingThis posted:

If you listen to the first thirty minutes of the latest instalment of Fangradio, it's perfectly apparent why Crowded House isn't a band that can merely have its members replaced on a whim. That's the sort of magic that nobody can bring to an audition. 

I'll finalise my thoughts of this decision by just telling you to listen to the first thirty minutes of today's Fangradio

I completely agree with you. 

A new band is totally fine with me, just please give it a new name!

koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

brownie posted:
TryWhistlingThis posted:

If you listen to the first thirty minutes of the latest instalment of Fangradio, it's perfectly apparent why Crowded House isn't a band that can merely have its members replaced on a whim. That's the sort of magic that nobody can bring to an audition. 

I'll finalise my thoughts of this decision by just telling you to listen to the first thirty minutes of today's Fangradio

I completely agree with you. 

A new band is totally fine with me, just please give it a new name!

Spot on

stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is ! 

Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at . 

Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

Secret God (Stew) posted:

Up until Mark Hart officially joined the band for their fourth album Together Alone, Nick Seymour's entire Crowded House songwriting credits consisted of a co-write on Woodface bonus track I'm Still Here... But I don't see anyone going around whitewashing his role in the band as an "auxiliary member"...

In one 

stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is ! 

Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at . 

Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is ! 

Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at . 

Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?

stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?

Denny Seiwell? With Denny Laine effectively replacing George Harrison? And the Beatles continued, minus John, since it had always been Paul's band and he can do whatever he wants? Sure, but just don't call it the Beatles. Call it Wings or something.

I think a lot of us have two issues, the curt dismissal of an integral part of the band, and the use of Crowded House as a band name for a band that has mutated so much now that any heart and soul it had seems in the past now.

I feel we can all accept Neil making decisions about who he wants to work with, it's his call, his prerogative.  Some collabs we like, some we don't. All cool. But it's the use of the name that sticks sideways. Maybe just call it The Mullanes if the kids are in it and retire the CH name for good.

Last edited by Perfectchord

My current feeling is that, were Paul still with us - a lineup of Neil, Paul and Nick could rightfully turn up anywhere in the world and call themselves Crowded House with or without Mark (or Tim, Mitchell or anyone for that matter). Unfortunately that's not possible but the surviving members of the original lineup are going to be performing together and to me that's enough to rightfully use the name.

I also wouldn't describe Mark as integral as much as he is beloved. Tim is more integral when performing Woodface era songs but we all accept that absence (gladly in some cases).

I dont know Neil's reasons for not finding a way to include Mark but it saddens me. I'd be thrilled to see Mark on stage again, even more thrilled to hear him on record. But if its not to be then that gives me pause and a level of concern about what the next lineup of Crowded House might look like.

I'd rather he was in but it's still going to be as close to the original lineup as its physically possible to get - so Crowded House it surely is.

 

 

 

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

stuartjb posted:
Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?

Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE?

Paul H posted:
stuartjb posted:
Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?

Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE?

Well , I’ve explained my reasons ! Going forward if they were just not using Mark I’d be dissapointed , but could take it .The fact that I feel certain he’s bringing his sons instead , just makes it seem a bit pointless ...

i saw the Finn family in January . It was great , but now we’re just to accept it’s suddenly crowded House ?! For what reason ?

HoBrit posted:

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

Great post . Mark has always been shabbily treated by all concerned when Mitchell Froom has been involved .

I will greatly miss Mark Hart and his contributions to the band.  From all experiences known and shared by this community, he came across as a true gentlemen.  

 We are all endlessly speculating about this new direction.  I wish we knew more but let's look back at the avid fan reaction to the changes of personnel.  When the Mullanes hit the scene, I'm sure there were some Split Enz fans that did not latch onto this new group with two Split Enz members.  Some did not accept CH 1.0 (how could you fire Hooper?) , some did not accept CH 1.5 (where's Eddie?), some dismissed CH 1.75 (we must have Tim!),  many did not accept CH 2.0 (There's no CH without Paul), many won't accept CH 3.0 (No Mark, no CH).

If Neil and Nick make music together, the likelihood of more Crowded House gigs, tours and/or albums increases.  Will they lose fans?  Hardcore fans?  Possibly.  We will see.  I suspect a stunning new release may soften some hurt feelings in our community.   

 

Looking forward to what every output we get from Neil. Mark will be missed, but as previously stated by many  its Neil's call as to whom ever he wishes to collaborate with.

We all have different opinions but the most recent 'family albums' have not been my personal favourites and Liam on stage has been uncomfortable. Equally I appreciate that Neil wants to make music with those closest to him.

Personally, I was looking forward to a Neil/Tim collaboration.

I think we can rule out Mike Campbell as a possible member of CH 3.0.  His focus will be on the Dirty Knobs.  According to an interview done during the Australian leg of the FM tour, Stevie Nicks will go on a solo tour after FM completes this tour in Nov.  Stevie’s tour will last a year and a half which will takes us through mid-2021 or later.  Campbell’s Dirty Knobs will be on tour during this time.

That outcome would make me the most frustrated out of any. Not because Neil-Elroy-Liam-Nick-Mitchell playing CH wouldn't be brilliant - it would!! Elroy is one of the best drummers Neil has played with in recent years, and the rest of the members speak for themselves.

But.

In early 2017, Neil played with effectively this lineup minus Mitchell. And he called it "Neil Finn." And it was wonderful. Why couldn't he do that this time?

Also - he's put himself in a bind setlist wise. This group of musicians has no reason not to explore the rest of his catalog - can we have She Will Have Her Way, and Won't Give In, and Anytime, and Recluse, and etc. etc. ?! If they don't, it feels like a wasted opportunity, and if they do, it's just weird. 

There would be zero friction on this subject - no worries with Mark or anyone - if he'd just billed it as Neil Finn.

He didn't, though, and so now it's all this. 

Last edited by Thom Bullock

My point was actually that Mark’swife portrayal of it as a sacking is one view and it’s not Neils view.

Crowded House have not put out a record for 9 years. If Neil chooses to do a one off show without Mark he’s perfectly entitled . 

Neil continues to record and play with a range of artists, including his family. No big deal. He’s a musician and I admire his varied musical outlets and like him all the more for it.

 He has his reasons for not asking Mark. It’s an artists perogative, especially when you write and sing all songs. 

This is like Beatles fans wanting the solo artists to get back together - just let him play with whoever he wants to and let the musical output stand or fall. Omitting Mark will not make one jot of difference to the music. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

 

 

sinner62 posted:

My point was actually that Mark’swife portrayal of it as a sacking is one view and it’s not Neils view.

Crowded House have not put out a record for 9 years. If Neil chooses to do a one off show without Mark he’s perfectly entitled . 

Neil continues to record and play with a range of artists, including his family. No big deal. He’s a musician and I admire his varied musical outlets and like him all the more for it.

 He has his reasons for not asking Mark. It’s an artists perogative, especially when you write and sing all songs. 

This is like Beatles fans wanting the solo artists to get back together - just let him play with whoever he wants to and let the musical output stand or fall. Omitting Mark will not make one jot of difference to the music. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

 

 

Each to their own . Suffice to say I completley disagree with you - especially your second last sentence . Musically - to me , it will make a very big difference .

stuartjb posted:
HoBrit posted:

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

Great post . Mark has always been shabbily treated by all concerned when Mitchell Froom has been involved .

This is my suspicion, too.  Mark has a lot of overlap with Mitchell Froom (Mark has some overlap with pretty much any musician, including singers). It may not be coincidence that Mark wasn't asked to join as a full member until Crowded House and "the gloomster", as Paul Hester humorously referred to Froom, took separate paths.

I'm really going to miss Mark as part of the band, especially on the Together Alone songs. It's seems a shame to lose such a talented, long-time band member, especially considering there was no falling out (that we are aware of) and Mark clearly wants to remain part of Crowded House. I keep hoping that Neil might strike some compromise and invite Mark to play on a bunch of the Together Alone songs, as Tim occasionally does for the Woodface songs, but that's only dreaming. 

On the positive side, it will be a real treat to have Mitchell Froom on stage with the band. I think Temple of Low Men is one of the best albums ever made, and Froom played no small part in it.

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption . 

stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

sinner62 posted:
stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

Also - I included some reasonably well expressed thoughts - surely worthy of an airing - I wasn’t being combative. Responding by ignoring the thrust of my points and quibbling over a partial quote of one sentence I used is being somewhat combative on the other hand. Anyway - each to their own. 

sinner62 posted:
sinner62 posted:
stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

Also - I included some reasonably well expressed thoughts - surely worthy of an airing - I wasn’t being combative. Responding by ignoring the thrust of my points and quibbling over a partial quote of one sentence I used is being somewhat combative on the other hand. Anyway - each to their own. 

You are entitled to air any thoughts you like - it’s a forum . Most of the thoughts I either disagreed with or didn’t feel the need to discuss them , similarly when you dismissed Marks contribution to the sound of the band . 

The one part of your post I felt the interest in commenting on was your thought that it would ( probably ) be their last gig . It may very well be , I’m not a fortune teller or desperate to be proved right . I just think Bluesfest at Byron Bay with a new lineup of the band would be both an odd and pointless way to  end the band . Surely if that was the case - Sydney in 2016 would have been more appropriate .I’m not really getting why me leaving “ probably “ out was such a big deal . It was actually an oversight , but thinking it their last gig or probably their last gig is a fairly similar thought is it not ? 

I think you were first pretty dismissive of my info about his wife , and them pretty dismissive about Marks contribution to the sound of the band . Without going of on one I just wanted to register that I completely disagreed - which I do . I think Mark is great , and I think Neil is making a big mistake 

As you say though - each to their own .

I think regardless of who or what the band ends up looking like it just seems like a shame. 

Crowded House records are pretty layered in terms of instrumentation and Mark is a renowned multi instrumentalist, even with Mitchell, Liam, Elroy, Nick and whoever, there would always be something to do or play.

My suspicion is that maybe Neil has been recording with Elroy and Liam and what's come out has sounded like Crowded House. 

If Liam is involved it would be nice to see him do a bit more than just strumming an acoustic and doing backing vocals. Let him loose on a couple of solos or something. 

Some interesting points have been raised here.

- Why fire a member and "plan something cool", unless there's more to come. I do think this is the third wave of CH. It will be different, but that's more than okay for me. 

- I've been wondering about Nick's opinion on Mark's removal ever since the news came out. Any guesses? Because I'm confused. I've always found Nick a very loyal (and rather sensitive, for a lack of a better term) kind of guy. 

- Reasons for not liking the idea of "the all dancing all singing family band" merging with CH: Apart from the forced vibe that was on stage everytime I've seen them (Look, family, isn't it all so wonderful and funny), I just find it such a waste of an opportunity. I could honestly live with losing Mark, if Neil brought in some exciting musician(s) from "outside" (I've recently listened to 7 Worlds Collide again, and loved Johnny Marr's twist on some classics, among many examples). From what I've seen, that is so not going to happen with Liam, apart from some nice stage gimmicks. (Sorry, I've got nothing against him, but it just didn't work for me.) Having said that, Elroy on drums is great, and his unpretentious deadpan humour works well with/against Neil's.

I do hope as many of us as possible approach this with an open mind, but if it turns out to become the family band version of CH, I also find it completely legitimate that those of us who have seen versions of this combo live are a bit apprehensive. 

Last edited by Mica
sinner62 posted:

"the forced vibe that was on stage everytime I've seen them (Look, family, isn't it all so wonderful and funny".

Wow, that's a very cynical take on things. What possible evidence makes you say their enjoyment of playing together is a "forced vibe" rather than enjoyment itself.

It wasn't meant to be cynical. I can't give you a precise description of why I found it forced, I'm afraid. But have you ever been to a gig and just thought afterwards "good show, glad I went, atmosphere on stage seemed a bit off, a bit trying too hard, didn't flow as nicely as some other shows I've seen"? That was my impression after the two Lightsleeper gigs I saw in January. (I didn't go with the intention of finding fault with anything, otherwise I wouldn't have gone in the first place.) 

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