Secret God (Stew) posted:Up until Mark Hart officially joined the band for their fourth album Together Alone, Nick Seymour's entire Crowded House songwriting credits consisted of a co-write on Woodface bonus track I'm Still Here... But I don't see anyone going around whitewashing his role in the band as an "auxiliary member"...
In one
stuartjb posted:koala_sprint posted:stuartjb posted:koala_sprint posted:Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.
Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .
Tim Finn would disagree with that.
Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up.
I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band.
But, each to their own.
What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is !
Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at .
Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!
I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉
@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed.
Paul H posted:@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed.
I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark .
Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...
koala_sprint posted:stuartjb posted:koala_sprint posted:stuartjb posted:koala_sprint posted:Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.
Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .
Tim Finn would disagree with that.
Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up.
I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band.
But, each to their own.
What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is !
Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at .
Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!
I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉
Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?
stuartjb posted:koala_sprint posted:stuartjb posted:Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉
Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?
Denny Seiwell? With Denny Laine effectively replacing George Harrison? And the Beatles continued, minus John, since it had always been Paul's band and he can do whatever he wants? Sure, but just don't call it the Beatles. Call it Wings or something.
I think a lot of us have two issues, the curt dismissal of an integral part of the band, and the use of Crowded House as a band name for a band that has mutated so much now that any heart and soul it had seems in the past now.
I feel we can all accept Neil making decisions about who he wants to work with, it's his call, his prerogative. Some collabs we like, some we don't. All cool. But it's the use of the name that sticks sideways. Maybe just call it The Mullanes if the kids are in it and retire the CH name for good.
My current feeling is that, were Paul still with us - a lineup of Neil, Paul and Nick could rightfully turn up anywhere in the world and call themselves Crowded House with or without Mark (or Tim, Mitchell or anyone for that matter). Unfortunately that's not possible but the surviving members of the original lineup are going to be performing together and to me that's enough to rightfully use the name.
I also wouldn't describe Mark as integral as much as he is beloved. Tim is more integral when performing Woodface era songs but we all accept that absence (gladly in some cases).
I dont know Neil's reasons for not finding a way to include Mark but it saddens me. I'd be thrilled to see Mark on stage again, even more thrilled to hear him on record. But if its not to be then that gives me pause and a level of concern about what the next lineup of Crowded House might look like.
I'd rather he was in but it's still going to be as close to the original lineup as its physically possible to get - so Crowded House it surely is.
Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.
In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁)
I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone.
I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like'
I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there.
stuartjb posted:Paul H posted:@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed.
I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark .
Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...
It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?
Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE? 
Paul H posted:stuartjb posted:Paul H posted:@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed.
I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark .
Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...
It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?
Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE?
Well , I’ve explained my reasons ! Going forward if they were just not using Mark I’d be dissapointed , but could take it .The fact that I feel certain he’s bringing his sons instead , just makes it seem a bit pointless ...
i saw the Finn family in January . It was great , but now we’re just to accept it’s suddenly crowded House ?! For what reason ?
HoBrit posted:Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.
In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁)
I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone.
I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like'
I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there.
Great post . Mark has always been shabbily treated by all concerned when Mitchell Froom has been involved .
Can I ask if there's anything to say that more than one Finn is in Crowded House?
Please no Liam...
I will greatly miss Mark Hart and his contributions to the band. From all experiences known and shared by this community, he came across as a true gentlemen.
We are all endlessly speculating about this new direction. I wish we knew more but let's look back at the avid fan reaction to the changes of personnel. When the Mullanes hit the scene, I'm sure there were some Split Enz fans that did not latch onto this new group with two Split Enz members. Some did not accept CH 1.0 (how could you fire Hooper?) , some did not accept CH 1.5 (where's Eddie?), some dismissed CH 1.75 (we must have Tim!), many did not accept CH 2.0 (There's no CH without Paul), many won't accept CH 3.0 (No Mark, no CH).
If Neil and Nick make music together, the likelihood of more Crowded House gigs, tours and/or albums increases. Will they lose fans? Hardcore fans? Possibly. We will see. I suspect a stunning new release may soften some hurt feelings in our community.
Looking forward to what every output we get from Neil. Mark will be missed, but as previously stated by many its Neil's call as to whom ever he wishes to collaborate with.
We all have different opinions but the most recent 'family albums' have not been my personal favourites and Liam on stage has been uncomfortable. Equally I appreciate that Neil wants to make music with those closest to him.
Personally, I was looking forward to a Neil/Tim collaboration.
I think we can rule out Mike Campbell as a possible member of CH 3.0. His focus will be on the Dirty Knobs. According to an interview done during the Australian leg of the FM tour, Stevie Nicks will go on a solo tour after FM completes this tour in Nov. Stevie’s tour will last a year and a half which will takes us through mid-2021 or later. Campbell’s Dirty Knobs will be on tour during this time.
