Secret God (Stew) posted:

Up until Mark Hart officially joined the band for their fourth album Together Alone, Nick Seymour's entire Crowded House songwriting credits consisted of a co-write on Woodface bonus track I'm Still Here... But I don't see anyone going around whitewashing his role in the band as an "auxiliary member"...

In one 

stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is ! 

Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at . 

Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:

Crowded House has changed line-up about 5 times over the years. This is just the latest incarnation. It hasn’t hurt their musical output in the past. I’m excited about this new version.  

Disagree . 86-89 aside , Mark has been there for the whole journey . This in my opinion is a very bad move .

Tim Finn would disagree with that. 

Look at Split Enz. They barely made more than 2 consecutive albums with the same line-up. 

I find it weird that an auxiliary band member who has co-written approx 1% of Crowded House’s output can cause someone to question their love of their favourite band. 

But, each to their own. 

What makes Mark an “ auxiliary “ member ?! I’m curious . I’m actually curious to what an auxiliary member is ! 

Looking at Together Alone , time on earth , and Intriguer album covers , Mark just looks like a member of a 4 piece band . He’s hardly a mention on the album credits if that’s what you are getting at . 

Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?

stuartjb posted:
koala_sprint posted:
stuartjb posted:
Does that make Ringo Starr or John Entwhistle or Brian Jones an “ auxiliary “ member ?!

I’d say you’ve summed up my argument for me perfectly. Yes. They were all auxiliary members that were easily replaced. Thanks 😉 

Who Replaced Ringo in the Beatles ?

Denny Seiwell? With Denny Laine effectively replacing George Harrison? And the Beatles continued, minus John, since it had always been Paul's band and he can do whatever he wants? Sure, but just don't call it the Beatles. Call it Wings or something.

I think a lot of us have two issues, the curt dismissal of an integral part of the band, and the use of Crowded House as a band name for a band that has mutated so much now that any heart and soul it had seems in the past now.

I feel we can all accept Neil making decisions about who he wants to work with, it's his call, his prerogative.  Some collabs we like, some we don't. All cool. But it's the use of the name that sticks sideways. Maybe just call it The Mullanes if the kids are in it and retire the CH name for good.

My current feeling is that, were Paul still with us - a lineup of Neil, Paul and Nick could rightfully turn up anywhere in the world and call themselves Crowded House with or without Mark (or Tim, Mitchell or anyone for that matter). Unfortunately that's not possible but the surviving members of the original lineup are going to be performing together and to me that's enough to rightfully use the name.

I also wouldn't describe Mark as integral as much as he is beloved. Tim is more integral when performing Woodface era songs but we all accept that absence (gladly in some cases).

I dont know Neil's reasons for not finding a way to include Mark but it saddens me. I'd be thrilled to see Mark on stage again, even more thrilled to hear him on record. But if its not to be then that gives me pause and a level of concern about what the next lineup of Crowded House might look like.

I'd rather he was in but it's still going to be as close to the original lineup as its physically possible to get - so Crowded House it surely is.

 

 

 

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

stuartjb posted:
Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?

Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE?

Paul H posted:
stuartjb posted:
Paul H posted:

@stuartjb: I'm intrigued (excuse the pun) by your sudden antipathy towards a version of CH that doesn't include Mark Hart. He wasn't on most of Time on Earth either - which was the cause of my own difficulty accepting that album as a CH album - but that didn't stop you accepting that as a band album. We debated this back and forth in another thread and you were adamant that if CH was the name Neil wanted to use on a record that mostly only featured him and Nick, that was good enough for you. I'm genuinely interested to know what's changed. 

I did think of our discussions when this news came out . When the album started off as a Neil album , I accepted it as at no time was Mark replaced . The project took flight as a crowded House album , and eventually featured Mark . 

Part of me now thinks it was pointless for me to champion the integrity of Crowded House , as for some reason it no longer seems to bother Neil ...

It did flummox me (still does, to be honest) that you championed the integrity of CH when that was the thing I felt had been compromised: how could CH retain any integrity on ToE when Mark Hart wasn't on most of it?

Oddly enough, as I noted before, I'm now more inclined to think of ToE as a CH album if there are going to be more Mark-less CH albums: I mean, why pick on ToE?

Well , I’ve explained my reasons ! Going forward if they were just not using Mark I’d be dissapointed , but could take it .The fact that I feel certain he’s bringing his sons instead , just makes it seem a bit pointless ...

i saw the Finn family in January . It was great , but now we’re just to accept it’s suddenly crowded House ?! For what reason ?

HoBrit posted:

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

Great post . Mark has always been shabbily treated by all concerned when Mitchell Froom has been involved .

I will greatly miss Mark Hart and his contributions to the band.  From all experiences known and shared by this community, he came across as a true gentlemen.  

 We are all endlessly speculating about this new direction.  I wish we knew more but let's look back at the avid fan reaction to the changes of personnel.  When the Mullanes hit the scene, I'm sure there were some Split Enz fans that did not latch onto this new group with two Split Enz members.  Some did not accept CH 1.0 (how could you fire Hooper?) , some did not accept CH 1.5 (where's Eddie?), some dismissed CH 1.75 (we must have Tim!),  many did not accept CH 2.0 (There's no CH without Paul), many won't accept CH 3.0 (No Mark, no CH).

If Neil and Nick make music together, the likelihood of more Crowded House gigs, tours and/or albums increases.  Will they lose fans?  Hardcore fans?  Possibly.  We will see.  I suspect a stunning new release may soften some hurt feelings in our community.   

 

Looking forward to what every output we get from Neil. Mark will be missed, but as previously stated by many  its Neil's call as to whom ever he wishes to collaborate with.

We all have different opinions but the most recent 'family albums' have not been my personal favourites and Liam on stage has been uncomfortable. Equally I appreciate that Neil wants to make music with those closest to him.

Personally, I was looking forward to a Neil/Tim collaboration.

I think we can rule out Mike Campbell as a possible member of CH 3.0.  His focus will be on the Dirty Knobs.  According to an interview done during the Australian leg of the FM tour, Stevie Nicks will go on a solo tour after FM completes this tour in Nov.  Stevie’s tour will last a year and a half which will takes us through mid-2021 or later.  Campbell’s Dirty Knobs will be on tour during this time.

That outcome would make me the most frustrated out of any. Not because Neil-Elroy-Liam-Nick-Mitchell playing CH wouldn't be brilliant - it would!! Elroy is one of the best drummers Neil has played with in recent years, and the rest of the members speak for themselves.

But.

In early 2017, Neil played with effectively this lineup minus Mitchell. And he called it "Neil Finn." And it was wonderful. Why couldn't he do that this time?

Also - he's put himself in a bind setlist wise. This group of musicians has no reason not to explore the rest of his catalog - can we have She Will Have Her Way, and Won't Give In, and Anytime, and Recluse, and etc. etc. ?! If they don't, it feels like a wasted opportunity, and if they do, it's just weird. 

There would be zero friction on this subject - no worries with Mark or anyone - if he'd just billed it as Neil Finn.

He didn't, though, and so now it's all this. 

Yuk. Just yuk.

it’s neil’s band and he can do with it what he likes.

but theres plenty of crowdies fans including this one who are not interested in the all singing all dancing finn family band.

that is a side project. One theyre welcome to and one i respectfully dont dig.

im really opposed to crowded house becoming a finn family affair.

 

 

 

My point was actually that Mark’swife portrayal of it as a sacking is one view and it’s not Neils view.

Crowded House have not put out a record for 9 years. If Neil chooses to do a one off show without Mark he’s perfectly entitled . 

Neil continues to record and play with a range of artists, including his family. No big deal. He’s a musician and I admire his varied musical outlets and like him all the more for it.

 He has his reasons for not asking Mark. It’s an artists perogative, especially when you write and sing all songs. 

This is like Beatles fans wanting the solo artists to get back together - just let him play with whoever he wants to and let the musical output stand or fall. Omitting Mark will not make one jot of difference to the music. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

 

 

sinner62 posted:

My point was actually that Mark’swife portrayal of it as a sacking is one view and it’s not Neils view.

Crowded House have not put out a record for 9 years. If Neil chooses to do a one off show without Mark he’s perfectly entitled . 

Neil continues to record and play with a range of artists, including his family. No big deal. He’s a musician and I admire his varied musical outlets and like him all the more for it.

 He has his reasons for not asking Mark. It’s an artists perogative, especially when you write and sing all songs. 

This is like Beatles fans wanting the solo artists to get back together - just let him play with whoever he wants to and let the musical output stand or fall. Omitting Mark will not make one jot of difference to the music. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

 

 

 

Each to their own . Suffice to say I completley disagree with you - especially your second last sentence . Musically - to me , it will make a very big difference .

stuartjb posted:
HoBrit posted:

Ive always seen Crowded House as very much Neil, Nick, Paul and Mark. Then, with Paul no longer with us, Matt.

In terms of importance, certainly live I always thought of Mark as almost irreplaceable. His grungey kind of guitar style mixed with all the work he does on synths, lap steel and harmonies always stood out. But more than what he played its how he plays it that makes him difficult to replace (and why hopefully I can get him to play on some of my stuff 😁) 

I might be wrong as well but for some reason I wonder if there was a touch of professional animosity between Mark and Mitchell Froom as I remember reading somewhere that Mitchell kind of sidelined him in recording the 3 added recurring dream songs. I know myself as a musician that would get my back up a little, especially with the obvious sound contributions he made to Together Alone. 

I also think as well for the most part when you think of Crowded House you think not only of their music but of the persona of the band, the piss taking, the messing around on stage and the banter. When something like a suspected sacking takes place it refocusses things and makes it feel more 'business like' 

I dunno, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here but the one big take away for me is its gonna be a real shame not seeing but more importantly hearing Mark up there. 

 

 

Great post . Mark has always been shabbily treated by all concerned when Mitchell Froom has been involved .

This is my suspicion, too.  Mark has a lot of overlap with Mitchell Froom (Mark has some overlap with pretty much any musician, including singers). It may not be coincidence that Mark wasn't asked to join as a full member until Crowded House and "the gloomster", as Paul Hester humorously referred to Froom, took separate paths.

I'm really going to miss Mark as part of the band, especially on the Together Alone songs. It's seems a shame to lose such a talented, long-time band member, especially considering there was no falling out (that we are aware of) and Mark clearly wants to remain part of Crowded House. I keep hoping that Neil might strike some compromise and invite Mark to play on a bunch of the Together Alone songs, as Tim occasionally does for the Woodface songs, but that's only dreaming. 

On the positive side, it will be a real treat to have Mitchell Froom on stage with the band. I think Temple of Low Men is one of the best albums ever made, and Froom played no small part in it.

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption . 

stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

sinner62 posted:
stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

Also - I included some reasonably well expressed thoughts - surely worthy of an airing - I wasn’t being combative. Responding by ignoring the thrust of my points and quibbling over a partial quote of one sentence I used is being somewhat combative on the other hand. Anyway - each to their own. 

sinner62 posted:
sinner62 posted:
stuartjb posted:
sinner62 posted:

 

I think a good insight and a clue resides in Neil's journal entry from May this year:

I have come to realise I can behave in unpredictable ways when greeted with approval or disapproval. Sometimes I recoil from praise and embrace scorn.......With my own music I often seem to sabotage my best laid plans. Why would I ruin a good chorus with an arrangement that conceals the hook. Crowded House is a brand that conjures up good will, we made it with hard work and good spirit, but I have had a contradictory relationship with the success and perception it created......Yes, I have a degree from the university of perversity. If you tell me "You should just do Crowded House music all the time,” I will start work on Pajama Club. 

It's this attitude that has kept me interested and enjoying Neil Finn. I love the twists and turns of his output in all it's many guises. Sticking with a set line up for 20 years is a recipe for boredom and stifled creativity. I personally found only a handful of tracks on Intriguer and Time On Earth grabbed me. The "Crowded House" label is not in itself the thing. It's what Neil does in whatever lineup he chooses. I certainly hold no acceptance of the view Crowded House should conform to one version of the band that has had many forms in between the 34 years that span their beginnings in 1986 and what comes to pass in the upcoming gig in 2020.

If Neil can reform Crowded House without Paul Hester, he can certainly do so for a one off gig without Mark. Why cast it as nepotism? I have no doubt the musical parts played by Mark will be perfectly well executed by Mitchell Froom and the kids and whoever the special guests will be.

On a personal level, I could get why he chose to have the experience of playing what will probably be the last ever Crowded House gig, with his sons and, more than likely with his brother Tim in for a few songs.

 

 

Last ever Crowded House gig ? 
for me that’s a bizarre and sweeping assumption .

I said probably - why did you leave out that important qualifier?  I find plenty of things bizarre in this world but I don’t usually feel the need to tell people they are bizarre when say I disagreed with their view on a band’s line up or say on favourite muffin recipes.

Let’s talk on the occasion of the next Crowded House reunion and see how it panned out.

Also - I included some reasonably well expressed thoughts - surely worthy of an airing - I wasn’t being combative. Responding by ignoring the thrust of my points and quibbling over a partial quote of one sentence I used is being somewhat combative on the other hand. Anyway - each to their own. 

You are entitled to air any thoughts you like - it’s a forum . Most of the thoughts I either disagreed with or didn’t feel the need to discuss them , similarly when you dismissed Marks contribution to the sound of the band . 

The one part of your post I felt the interest in commenting on was your thought that it would ( probably ) be their last gig . It may very well be , I’m not a fortune teller or desperate to be proved right . I just think Bluesfest at Byron Bay with a new lineup of the band would be both an odd and pointless way to  end the band . Surely if that was the case - Sydney in 2016 would have been more appropriate .I’m not really getting why me leaving “ probably “ out was such a big deal . It was actually an oversight , but thinking it their last gig or probably their last gig is a fairly similar thought is it not ? 

I think you were first pretty dismissive of my info about his wife , and them pretty dismissive about Marks contribution to the sound of the band . Without going of on one I just wanted to register that I completely disagreed - which I do . I think Mark is great , and I think Neil is making a big mistake 

As you say though - each to their own .

I think regardless of who or what the band ends up looking like it just seems like a shame. 

Crowded House records are pretty layered in terms of instrumentation and Mark is a renowned multi instrumentalist, even with Mitchell, Liam, Elroy, Nick and whoever, there would always be something to do or play.

My suspicion is that maybe Neil has been recording with Elroy and Liam and what's come out has sounded like Crowded House. 

If Liam is involved it would be nice to see him do a bit more than just strumming an acoustic and doing backing vocals. Let him loose on a couple of solos or something. 

When Nick was fired from the band in 89 / 90 I think it was ? - For “ not pushing Neil’s creative buttons “ Mark was very supportive , and pretty much tried to get him back in the band . I wonder if Nick is showing the same support to Mark now ...

Some interesting points have been raised here.

- Why fire a member and "plan something cool", unless there's more to come. I do think this is the third wave of CH. It will be different, but that's more than okay for me. 

- I've been wondering about Nick's opinion on Mark's removal ever since the news came out. Any guesses? Because I'm confused. I've always found Nick a very loyal (and rather sensitive, for a lack of a better term) kind of guy. 

- Reasons for not liking the idea of "the all dancing all singing family band" merging with CH: Apart from the forced vibe that was on stage everytime I've seen them (Look, family, isn't it all so wonderful and funny), I just find it such a waste of an opportunity. I could honestly live with losing Mark, if Neil brought in some exciting musician(s) from "outside" (I've recently listened to 7 Worlds Collide again, and loved Johnny Marr's twist on some classics, among many examples). From what I've seen, that is so not going to happen with Liam, apart from some nice stage gimmicks. (Sorry, I've got nothing against him, but it just didn't work for me.) Having said that, Elroy on drums is great, and his unpretentious deadpan humour works well with/against Neil's.

I do hope as many of us as possible approach this with an open mind, but if it turns out to become the family band version of CH, I also find it completely legitimate that those of us who have seen versions of this combo live are a bit apprehensive. 

"the forced vibe that was on stage everytime I've seen them (Look, family, isn't it all so wonderful and funny".

Wow, that's a very cynical take on things. What possible evidence makes you say their enjoyment of playing together is a "forced vibe" rather than enjoyment itself.

 

 

sinner62 posted:

"the forced vibe that was on stage everytime I've seen them (Look, family, isn't it all so wonderful and funny".

Wow, that's a very cynical take on things. What possible evidence makes you say their enjoyment of playing together is a "forced vibe" rather than enjoyment itself.

It wasn't meant to be cynical. I can't give you a precise description of why I found it forced, I'm afraid. But have you ever been to a gig and just thought afterwards "good show, glad I went, atmosphere on stage seemed a bit off, a bit trying too hard, didn't flow as nicely as some other shows I've seen"? That was my impression after the two Lightsleeper gigs I saw in January. (I didn't go with the intention of finding fault with anything, otherwise I wouldn't have gone in the first place.) 

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