Such a nostalgic listen today on Fangradio - Woodface, particularly, the first Crowded House album I really recall. But without Paul? Tim? Even Mark, who contributed to the album... I felt an absence...
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@silvertongue posted:Such a nostalgic listen today on Fangradio - Woodface, particularly, the first Crowded House album I really recall. But without Paul? Tim? Even Mark, who contributed to the album... I felt an absence...
I agree there is an absence as the sound is very different. But we have to acknowledge there is a new sound. Don't you think. Neil's voice is different but it's Neil. More lower and mature. Nick's voice not as high and more mellow but still sounds almost the same 
The new difference is Liam and Elroy. And that's ok. Right? It is Crowded House as it's Neil and Nick. Liam and Elroy grew up breathing and eating Crowded House so with time there is change. With change there must be a newness. I like what I'm hearing but I agree the nostalgia is what brings me back to a time where things were easier, life was freer and the air was clearer
What I've been wondering recently, with all the personnel changes over the years - and with reference to this thread's subject line - is who came up with the band's name?
I know it was agreed upon in LA when the original lads were in cramped accommodation - but with many fans saying thoughts along the lines of "It's Neil's Crowded House, he can have who he wants in it" it made me wonder if it was actually Neil who came up with the name - and therefore his to do with as he pleases. I remember years ago a discussion on who legally owns the name but I can't remember the answer! I know we often cite many other bands who have had such significant changes - sometimes even total changes! - and yet still the label / name is used.
It's an interesting question! And is it a moral dilemma or a legal one?
I think there is a general consensus that as Neil wrote the songs he "owns" the name - I wonder if that is legally how it works though.
Doesn't really seem a legal issue to me. There have been many legal battles over the years over band names (Beach Boys, Pink Floyd, Little River Band), but I don't hear anyone else claiming Crowded House.
Look, I don't always like line-up changes, and totally understand the feeling on this board, particularly in regards to Mark, but line-ups do change. And it IS Neil's band, no matter what anyone says.
Just enjoy having new Neil music, no matter how he deigns to brand it.
@Steve Shealy posted:Doesn't really seem a legal issue to me. There have been many legal battles over the years over band names (Beach Boys, Pink Floyd, Little River Band), but I don't hear anyone else claiming Crowded House.
I guess it would take someone wanting to use the name "Crowded House" to make it a legal issue. As you say, it's happened in the past. In fact, Neil and Tim had to stop calling themselves Finn and become Finn Brothers because of a legal ruling brought by a previous artist called Finn.
What is Crowded House? A band, a brand, a superannuation fund?
I would think that that it’s all of the above, and perhaps more.
I really enjoyed the Woodface performance. I do feel that the Tim-Neil compositions require harmonies which give equal weight to both voices, particularly in It’s Only Natural and How Will You Go, where Liam is required to sing the melody.
Even when Paul Hester was singing on It’s Only Natural, I felt that his voice was a bit too low in the mix.
@Perfectchord posted:What I've been wondering recently, with all the personnel changes over the years - and with reference to this thread's subject line - is who came up with the band's name?
According to Chris Bourke's book (page 79)
"They even went to the local library to find a solution [the name]. Looking through books at random, Neil came across a phase which was suitable for the album's title. It seemed to reflect the lifestyle they'd been leading: Crowded House...."
So it appears the band's name was Neil's idea.
@Byrds Talk to Me posted:I do feel that the Tim-Neil compositions require harmonies which give equal weight to both voices, particularly in It’s Only Natural and How Will You Go. .
Completely agree on both these songs! I'm afraid that the band very seldom gets the relative strength of the vocals to one another right.
@silvertongue posted:Such a nostalgic listen today on Fangradio - Woodface, particularly, the first Crowded House album I really recall. But without Paul? Tim? Even Mark, who contributed to the album... I felt an absence...
I only heard/saw the 'Whispers and Moans' which was put on YouTube.
I don't actually have the Woodface album (the five songs from the Recurring Dream greatest hits is sufficient for me) so I don't get to hear the studio version as much as recorded live versions of the song. And because of that, wow it sounded soo different!!! Because from 1990s onwards, Crowded House never replicated the song exactly (underline/bold that word a few times) to the album version.
Even the different keyboard notes from Mitchell (whom I'm sure played the song exactly key to key from the album) to Mark (just made subtle background sound so Neil's guitar could be the main focus). Fans can decide what they preferred.
Sorry, in my rattling I'm trying to say noticing an absence too. But from how they played live, not from the original studio version.
@Left Hand posted:I only heard/saw the 'Whispers and Moans' which was put on YouTube.
I don't actually have the Woodface album (the five songs from the Recurring Dream greatest hits is sufficient for me) so I don't get to hear the studio version as much as recorded live versions of the song. And because of that, wow it sounded soo different!!! Because from 1990s onwards, Crowded House never replicated the song exactly (underline/bold that word a few times) to the album version.
Even the different keyboard notes from Mitchell (whom I'm sure played the song exactly key to key from the album) to Mark (just made subtle background sound so Neil's guitar could be the main focus). Fans can decide what they preferred.
Sorry, in my rattling I'm trying to say noticing an absence too. But from how they played live, not from the original studio version.
Woodface is well worth listening to from start to finish, with excellent album tracks like Fame Is, As Sure As I Am, She Goes On and How Will You Go.
I first heard some of the songs live, at Ausmusic Day, then on a Triple M interview/performance around May 1991.
I became very attached to those spirited acoustic renditions of Chocolate Cake, It’s Only Natural, Fall at Your Feet and There Goes God.
When the record came out, it took me a long time to warm up to the relatively subdued album versions.
I love the warm, familial vibe of this fangradio performance. But I don’t think Liam’s voice is strong enough to really do the Finn Bros. songs justice. Maybe if it had more weight in the mix, that would make a difference.
Is it Crowded House? Yes🙂
@Left Hand posted:According to Chris Bourke's book (page 79)
"They even went to the local library to find a solution [the name]. Looking through books at random, Neil came across a phase which was suitable for the album's title. It seemed to reflect the lifestyle they'd been leading: Crowded House...."
So it appears the band's name was Neil's idea.
I thought it was meant to be the name of the first album before it became the bands name ?
@Annie99999 posted:I agree there is an absence as the sound is very different. But we have to acknowledge there is a new sound. Don't you think. Neil's voice is different but it's Neil. More lower and mature. Nick's voice not as high and more mellow but still sounds almost the same
I don't actually hear Neils voice being any lower at all - the range is till there as far as I can hear . It maybe sounds a little "thinner" to me ?
This line up is completely valid as Crowded House . 2 of the original trio plus the producer that played keys on the first 3 albums ( as well as shaping quite a few of the songs) . It's the line up I would totally have got if Mark Hart had said he no longer wanted to be in the band. The thing is , he didn't want to leave - so other than "it's Neils band - he can do what he wants " ... I don't get it . But , it's most definitely Crowded House.
Whats' with the 3 backing singers on the TV show though ?! Since when did CH need backing singers ?!
@slowpogo posted:to be fair, they are at the mercy of how they are mixed by the engineer
The levels aren’t usually as much of a problem as eq/effects/etc. You set up a lead vocal very differently than a backing vocal. For things like Natural and WWY, you want both vocals treated more or less the same way. Whereas when Mark or Liam or whoever take those parts, their mics are in backing mode, eq’d and reverb’d to blend in and avoid stepping on the lead vocal, and CH engineers have generally not opted to try and recalibrate that on the fly mid-show.
@stuartjb posted:I don't actually hear Neils voice being any lower at all - the range is till there as far as I can hear . It maybe sounds a little "thinner" to me ?
Funny you say that. As of yesterday I’m now hearing thinner. Concert shows Just bits here and there. Poor footage sound perhaps? Equipment? Fangradio shows although have been lovely 😊
I think it’s still CH, sure. I saw in a long ago thread lots of questioning Neil’s decision to let Mark and Matt go. “Why?!” “Not the same!”, etc.
But in all these various posts on the topic, I didn’t see anyone mention the obvious… Neil is getting up there in years and the work has go to be harder on him. He probably figures if he’s going to continue doing this, spending so much time on the road or wherever with the band, it might as well be with family! I think it’s beautiful that he can be on stage with his wife and kids, it has to make it that much better and easier for him.
Neil gave so much to us all over the years. Truly some of the most beautiful music and brilliant songs ever created. He do whatever he wants now with whoever he wants to do it with. I love the guy and will never question his musical decisions or complain if the output isn’t what I want or expect. God bless him and the whole Finn family!
No, unfortunately, it‘s not CH anymore. Not, that it is not good music, but far away of CH.
It‘s Finn Family music, not more, not less.
For me, it never stopped being Crowded House. I don’t know if that’s right or wrong, but it’s how I’ve labeled everything in my iTunes (yes, I still use iTunes). Just couldn’t be bothered having every Neil project listed under a different title when they’re all a piece of the same thread.
@Patrick posted:No, unfortunately, it‘s not CH anymore. Not, that it is not good music, but far away of CH.
It‘s Finn Family music, not more, not less.
Totally disagree . It’s 2 thirds of the original band plus the producer of the first 3 albums . I didn’t want them to let Mark Hart go , but it’s still undoubtedly Crowded House …
Sorry. It doesn‘t sound like CH, never. It‘s sounds like Neil in the last 10 years, with Liam and Elroy‘s works. It‘s Finn Family sound, but never CH. Sad for Nick, who made a great effort on this album. And Mitchell... overrated in MO. Good producer and a good accompagnion, but a band member... I don’t know... Never the glass of Mark. Sorry. But understand me right: Neil Finn is one of the best songwriters of all time. But this album is average.
@Patrick posted:Sorry. It doesn‘t sound like CH, never. It‘s sounds like Neil in the last 10 years, with Liam and Elroy‘s works. It‘s Finn Family sound, but never CH. Sad for Nick, who made a great effort on this album. And Mitchell... overrated in MO. Good producer and a good accompagnion, but a band member... I don’t know... Never the glass of Mark. Sorry. But understand me right: Neil Finn is one of the best songwriters of all time. But this album is average.
Agree with some aspects of your reply - but not all
This literally has to be the most Crowded House sounding new album I've heard since 1993. Took me a while to hear it through the production.
Sounds more like a Neil and Liam album to me. That's not to say I don't like it though. It has been growing on me.
Certainly CH to me.
Songs from Neil & Tim on this album - so it’s CH for sure!!
I would say there's more Liam and Neil on here than Neil and Tim. That doesn't mean I'm not warming to it though.
I’m part of that group of fans who got into the group in the ‘07-‘10 era, and so certainly the current cycle grates at me a bit. But here’s the thing - if there’s anything Neil has shown time and again, it’s that he’s going to do whatever moves him, and he trusts his fans to follow.
The same Neil who could have made Twice If You’re Lucky a hit, but gave it a weird arrangement instead, has now assembled a group called Crowded House, and invited us to come hear songs old and new played if we want. And even if it’s not the outcome I would have picked, I still want to hear it.
@stuartjb posted:Whats' with the 3 backing singers on the TV show though ?! Since when did CH need backing singers ?!
On record, there was “Don’t Dream It’s Over”, “Together Alone” (in live shows too)… and recently “Playing With Fire” had the tour’s support bands singing on the big chorus… because it’s a big chorus!
@stuartjb posted:Agree with some aspects of your reply - but not all
That‘s absolutely ok! That‘s why I love the Frenz of the Enz: Different opinions, but still respect for each other.
I remember when Together Alone didn't sound like CH to me, at first. (I have not heard all of the new album yet though.) And there are bands I like who have dramatically changed their sound multiple times...
I usually find that albums I don’t love at first listen later become my favorites! This album is one of them. Neil has grown subtler in recent years, not the obvious hooks and things that get your right away, but beautiful little touches that take time to even hear and get into your head. His beautiful heart and soul still come through, especially in the lyrics which are actually pretty fresh for Neil considering the degree of commentary on the state of the world. Not his usual wheelhouse but he nailed it with several songs, things I would want to say but wouldn’t know how.
@Patrick posted:And Mitchell... overrated in MO. Good producer and a good accompagnion, but a band member... I don’t know... Never the glass of Mark.
I don't understand this point...Mitchell wrote & performed the keyboard parts of the first three albums. What's the distinction between this, and "band member" that you don't like?
@slowpogo posted:I don't understand this point...Mitchell wrote & performed the keyboard parts of the first three albums. What's the distinction between this, and "band member" that you don't like?
First: I have nothing against Mister Froom. I don't know him and I am not legitimated to judge about him... he's a nice person and a person of integrity for sure. (But remember also, that Mark Hart was put aside from him during the production of Woodface.)
My argumentation was reffering the new role of him. He's great as a producer and important contributor to CH and the sound of CH - in the studio. He saved also the 2nd Finn Brothers record...
But as a fully member and musician in concerts - I don't know. I have the feeling that for the stage, it needs more, or something different. And I have the feeling, that because of his new role, it has affected the result of this new album not in a good way. But that's maybe only because I don't really like it that much... 
I could be totally false... Maybe it has nothing to do with Mitchell and the problem is, that there ist too much Finn in this new album. Maybe there were too little different opinions and contributions. Too much harmony is not always good for the creative process and the result.
Crowded House:
v1: Crowded House, Temple Of Low Men
v1.5: Woodface
v1.7: Together Alone
v2: Time On Earth, Intriguer
v2.5: Dreamers Are Waiting
The keys on this album are the best on any Finn album in decades. Letting Froom cut loose was a genius move.
@harrytrousers posted:The keys on this album are the best on any Finn album in decades. Letting Froom cut loose was a genius move.
As much as I am loving this album , I was just thinking that despite a few flourishes here and there , I’m not hearing a massive influence Mitchell wise !
@enigma posted:Crowded House:
v1: Crowded House, Temple Of Low Men
v1.5: Woodface
v1.7: Together Alonev2: Time On Earth, Intriguer
v2.5: Dreamers Are Waiting
Surely Dreamers is most definatley version 3.0 . This is a far bigger shake up than the one between together alone and time on earth !
@Patrick posted:First: I have nothing against Mister Froom. I don't know him and I am not legitimated to judge about him... he's a nice person and a person of integrity for sure. (But remember also, that Mark Hart was put aside from him during the production of Woodface.)
My argumentation was reffering the new role of him. He's great as a producer and important contributor to CH and the sound of CH - in the studio. He saved also the 2nd Finn Brothers record...
But as a fully member and musician in concerts - I don't know. I have the feeling that for the stage, it needs more, or something different. And I have the feeling, that because of his new role, it has affected the result of this new album not in a good way. But that's maybe only because I don't really like it that much...
I don’t agree with you about the album , but I think you may be on to something re Mitchell . I maintain this album could have been achieved in a similar manner with Mark . Not my band of course though …
I think they should have let Mark on for the ride (To The Island). Nothing wrong with another multi instrumentalist. It would have been a great goodwill gesture and probably would have provided something more special to the album.