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I think people in general were a little hard on the band for technical things.  Yeah, they weren’t quite together in the break after the first chorus (watch Neil pause completely and watch, as if thinking “I better stay out of this and not make it more messy”). The main vocal trio weren’t perfectly in tune and it wasn’t mixed well. But, I agree that for a first performance of a new lineup it’s pretty tight.

I do think criticism is more warranted for the overall vibe. It did seem plodding at times and lacked intensity. None of which is Neil’s fault...he sang very well. It’s that mysterious question of chemistry. They’re still finding each other and while it wasn’t bad, even for a first performance I could have been more convinced on the chemistry front.

Saying LB was the heart of Fleetwood Mac is lan interesting take on things! Not one shared with the vast majority.  

You don't consider Paul McCartney a lead singer or core member?

Seriously, how can you say that? If Mccartney can tour from 1989 to 2018 dong 50% Beatles material, without core elements of the band - Lennon, Harrison and Starr...then certainly Fleetwood Mac can do it without LB. 

If the band are up for it , it's their choice and right.

 

sinner62 posted:

 

If the band are up for it , it's their choice and right.

Totally agree.

The great thing about art is: There are no rules. Try stuff out! FM found themselves in this situation, they found a way to deal with it that felt good. Good! See what happens and go from there.

That's why I think arbitrary generalisations like " X doesn't work/without Y" etc. (especially before anything substantial has happened to support/falsify this hypothesis) kind of miss the point... (The Crowded House universe has been there too, haven't we?)

OK I'm coming into this a bit late, sorry, but thanks to someone who alerted me to this thread.

As per our rules, we don't call people ignorant in general nor do we call them that if they disagree. Our rule is always mutual respect.

That being said, if someone is being disrespectful, don't fight it out among yourselves. "I'm so glad I fought with a stranger on a discussion forum," said no-one ever. Please report the post, which goes to me. I think it's under "Take Action" on each post.

I don't want people quitting over a small war of words. I don't want people quitting unless I'm banning them. Hopefully we can all get back on track here.

Side note: I couldn't make it through the performance. I went into it not expecting vintage FM or LB, but just found it cringey. I felt like Fleetwood Mac were karaoke'ing their own songs. 

What it comes down to me is Neil did what was essentially a good cover version, but just as nobody sings a CH/NF song as good as Neil, nobody sings a FM/LB song as good as Lindsey. Unfortunately, Stevie Nicks is just a shell of her former self.  Really tried to have high hopes for this, now not so much...

Last edited by mikelm

Here's hoping that our hero Neil can turn this into a huge pay day so that he can continue to fund his ongoing projects and still get out with his dignity intact. For me personally, this is just embarrassing watching him do this (was the Air Supply reunion gig booked already ?). Somewhere, Paulo is laughing so hard that his arse just fell off !!

Last edited by talltrees

Just listened to The Chain by Finnwood Mac and the 1997 The Dance version back to back.

Interesting comparison. The voices are SO much better on The Dance version. You can hear the vocal tone of each of the three distinct singers clearly and the blend and conplrmcom perfectly. What I got from The Ellen Show performance was Neil with a mush of backing. There was no space. Neil was fine, I'm wondering if Stevie and Christine have lost it to that degree. Or was it an atrotious mix? 

Or has there been a tendancy to old age bloat and they've over done the arrangement at the expense of the raw energy and urgency? I've always had a beef with the number of backing musicians you see in the wings with FM (see also REM) but there are as many side of stage as front here. 

That said, and I love Lindsey's playing, I thing the guitars were better here. More rocking and Neil played his part very tastefully. That song needs to cut loose and it did.

Neil_Fann
I've always had a beef with the number of backing musicians you see in the wings with FM (see also REM) but there are as many side of stage as front here. 

Not to drag this off topic, but I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Specifically:

- REM only had Peter’s guitar to fill that space, so they augmented with an extra guitar and sometimes keys live.

- FM already had Lindsay’s guitar + Christine’s keys, and they augment with 2 vocalists, guitar, keys, and percussion.

- REM also acknowledged their supporting players live - introducing them to the audiences, giving shoutouts after big moments, etc. FM ludicrously pretends it’s just the 5 of them on stage.

I agree with you that FM relies too much on the supporting players, I just don’t think REM can be tarred with the same brush.

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Neil_Fann posted:

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Tourfilm (‘89) definitely had one extra player on stage (Peter Holsapple), I don’t remember how heavily he features in the film but he was nearly made a full member around that time, so it’s possible he’s in it quite a bit. Roadmovie (‘95) had both Scott McCaughey and Nathan something, which I’d bet is the one you’re thinking of.

The other two groups you mention are really interesting choices. U2 has never had a fifth member on stage, true, but from ‘84-present they’ve used backing tapes to fill in the gaps - sporadically from ‘84-‘90, but from ‘91-present the vast majority of their sets have pads underneath, all masterfully controlled under the stage by Terry Lawless. On the 360 tour they would occasionally put a camera down there and show him on stage.

Queen from ‘73-‘81 were just the four of them, and you’re right, they made a HUGE sound. In ‘82-86 they had a keyboard player offstage (Fred Mandel in ‘82, then Spike Edney from ‘84-‘86, Spike has been Brian’s keyboard player ever since).

Last edited by Thom Bullock
Thom Bullock posted:
Neil_Fann posted:

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Tourfilm (‘89) definitely had one extra player on stage (Peter Holsapple), I don’t remember how heavily he features in the film but he was nearly made a full member around that time, so it’s possible he’s in it quite a bit. Roadmovie (‘95) had both Scott McCaughey and Nathan something, which I’d bet is the one you’re thinking of.

The other two groups you mention are really interesting choices. U2 has never had a fifth member on stage, true, but from ‘84-present they’ve used backing tapes to fill in the gaps - sporadically from ‘84-‘90, but from ‘91-present the vast majority of their sets have pads underneath, all masterfully controlled under the stage by Terry Lawless. On the 360 tour they would occasionally put a camera down there and show him on stage.

Queen from ‘73-‘81 were just the four of them, and you’re right, they made a HUGE sound. In ‘82-86 they had a keyboard player offstage (Fred Mandel in ‘82, then Spike Edney from ‘84-‘86, Spike has been Brian’s keyboard player ever since).

The other guitarist was Nathan December, who was an old friend who used to manage Cole rehearsal studios in Los Angeles where my bands used to practice in the 90's. I remember watching a clip of R.E.M. and suddenly the camera pans past Nathan on stage with them. I hadn't spoken to him in years and called him, stunned, "How'd you get THAT gig? And where are my tickets?!" Really nice, talented guy - good singer/songwriter. 

koabac posted:

The other guitarist was Nathan December, who was an old friend who used to manage Cole rehearsal studios in Los Angeles where my bands used to practice in the 90's. I remember watching a clip of R.E.M. and suddenly the camera pans past Nathan on stage with them. I hadn't spoken to him in years and called him, stunned, "How'd you get THAT gig? And where are my tickets?!" Really nice, talented guy - good singer/songwriter. 

December! That was it. Great that you were able to reconnect with him like that, very cool story. 

I am late to the thread, but I have to say I think that Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks are almost completely cooked vocally.  I think that is why they had Christine's mic down so low as to be non-existent (and Nicks' was almost as low in the chain).  Major star mic levels are not just randomly left that low for no reason.  Last year on CBS this morning in a promo for the Buckingham McVie release they did the same thing to McVie's mic - completely turned it off.  

When Stevie Nicks sang Gypsy I just felt bad for her.  It was way more than just 'pitchy' she has like less than 1/2 of her range and honestly sounded really bad to me.  It isn't surprising though, McVie is 75 and Nicks is 70. It is sad, because both of them were distinctive vocalists who were very talented singers in their own ways.  But time wins all of these battles.

Neil on the other hand literally saved the vocal performance of The Chain.  I think Neil's live voice is right now much much stronger than Buckingham's live voice.  I have been a fan of FM forever and seen them play that song live on literally dozens of occasions.  It was a fantastic song in their set when they could really go full out vocally.  But in the last few years Buckinghams live voice has been going massively downhill as well.   I did like Buckingham's voice on the latest album he did with McVie.  He can still record his voice and make it sound great for recordings.  

In the mid 2000's both Nicks and Buckingham could still pull off a great live vocal.  See the video below from 2005.  It is sadly just not the case anymore.  Hopefully Neil manages to keep his voice strong for another 5-10 years.

 

Buckingham Nicks 2005 Say Goodbye

I still have the same attitude about Neil joining FM.  He is so awesome, and has earned the right to do whatever crazy thing he wants to do.  I just don't get it.  

 

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