Fleetwood Mac (with Neil Finn) to Perform on The Ellen Show on September 5

slowpogo posted:

Looking again at Twitter with more time for people to comment, the reaction is overwhelmingly negative. Lots of “it was horrible” and “the singing was awful” and “I’ve seen better tribute bands.” Yikes, too bad. It’s cool that NF got so much exposure and the naysayers always speak louder, but I do feel a little heartbroken that Neil’s big moment gets this sort of reception.

This issue seemed to be all about Stevie and Christine. Stevie's voice was dreadful.  No range. Odd gestures.  For Christine, I'm not convinced that her microphone was on. The camera never focused on her and I couldn't hear her voice.  The background singers may have been covering for her. Neil was actually great vocally and seemed to hold the female voices together quite well.  I haven't seen much at all online negative about Neil other than some folks want Lindsey back.

slowpogo posted:

Looking again at Twitter with more time for people to comment, the reaction is overwhelmingly negative. Lots of “it was horrible” and “the singing was awful” and “I’ve seen better tribute bands.” Yikes, too bad. It’s cool that NF got so much exposure and the naysayers always speak louder, but I do feel a little heartbroken that Neil’s big moment gets this sort of reception.

Let's keep this in perspective. Social media is where complainers go to complain. People who liked it aren't jumping on to social media in droves to say so. It creates a perception that everyone hated it, when really it's just a vocal minority.

I thought the performance was terrific and that Neil sounded great. The band obviously needs Neil's vocal talents as the other singers aren't able to deliver. At their age, it's sadly only natural. But they still have fans who want to see them and they still want to perform, so good on them for bringing in enough outside talent to put on a good show.

Went ahead and watched a couple other live performances of "The Chain" throughout the years. Buckingham's guitar playing blew me away and that certainly wasn't replicated with the new lineup. His vocals were better at certain times and worse at others. Not sure how his voice has aged?

Paināporo posted:

slowpogo posted:

Looking again at Twitter with more time for people to comment, the reaction is overwhelmingly negative. Lots of “it was horrible” and “the singing was awful” and “I’ve seen better tribute bands.” Yikes, too bad. It’s cool that NF got so much exposure and the naysayers always speak louder, but I do feel a little heartbroken that Neil’s big moment gets this sort of reception.

Let's keep this in perspective. Social media is where complainers go to complain. People who liked it aren't jumping on to social media in droves to say so. It creates a perception that everyone hated it, when really it's just a vocal minority.

 

I agree in a general sense, though I think the most loyal fans (of anything) tend to be vocal about their opinion either way, positive or negative. I do think the more devoted fan base of FM are mostly unhappy, though many of them were just waiting for an excuse to trash the band, and as others mentioned the criticism was mostly not really about Neil. What was said about Neil was mostly about being too conservative on stage, or his voice being “inappropriate” or “incongruent” with the FM sound. But if people only look at this in terms of comparison, they’ll never be satisfied. Anyway. Would have been great to feel like a bunch of people just got turned onto NF as an artist...not the feeling I have at the moment.

I wish Ellen had given Neil the credence so many of us believe he is due, but at least he got more than a "Hi".  

I got a chuckle at some YT FM critic who suggested Ellen's front row audience were like a bunch of seals, slapping their fins together at anything and everything. 

c.houser posted:

I wish Ellen had given Neil the credence so many of us believe he is due, but at least he got more than a "Hi".  

I got a chuckle at some YT FM critic who suggested Ellen's front row audience were like a bunch of seals, slapping their fins together at anything and everything. 

Christine didn't even get a mention from Ellen or Stevie and was essentially never on camera.  Perhaps she's not planning to stay in the band for long.  But it was odd that they introduced Neil like he's a session player that no one would know.

Watched The Chain twice now. First time I felt a little bit embarrassed and cringey - couldn't really say why, but on another watch this morning I was struck with just how good it was to see Neil with electric guitar and band singing a rock / pop song. It's when he's at his best, for me. And he seemed genuinely chuffed. Particularly when he lets loose at the end with the "running in the shadows" part it was just so great to see him taking the helm again of a band and singing a pretty decent tune. The whole idea of him joining FM will always seem a little silly to me, but considering I've been disengaged with his output for roughly a decade I'm certainly not feeling like this sojourn into stadium stardom is at the expense of rip-roaring pop / rock tunes from him - I think those days are done anyway.

I think the dynamics and energy felt a bit off. LB's intense energy is certainly missing and it almost felt like Neil was singing in Lindsey's range/style a little bit, trying to bring the same edge to the song. 

I think as they go along he will relax and just be Neil Finn and bring his own unique energy. He has so much experience and talent and he'll find the right approach and balance and just be himself, using that to create a new chemistry that's different but just as valuable and interesting as all the others who have come through the band before him. He's NEIL FINN, for goodness sake. As soon as he sets himself free, the way Stevie, Christine, Lindsey, Mick and all the others (past and present) are just their own individual selves (which, combined make the whole), when Neil just starts being Neil, then it will be come the "new" Fleetwood Mac - for better or for worse (or for just different).

Sugar Mouse posted:

You found the photo I posted on Facebook!

For some reason this Hoop.la forum distorts images disproportionately, so here's the direct link if anyone wants to download it.

c.houser posted:

Great pic

It was actually a screenshot from the Ellen performance and was heavily cropped and edited before I put it online. It was from directly after The Chain and that scene was only on screen for less than a second.

Sugar Mouse posted:

I had an idea today that could work well for the new Fleetwood Mac. The band would pick seven or more pre-Lindsey songs that would fit nicely with the new lineup.

For example, Oh Well, Dust, Come A Little Bit Closer, Why, For Your Love, Green Manalishi, Hypnotized, Man of The World, Spare Me A Little of Your Love, and The Way I Feel are some possibilities.

Then have the new lineup record new versions of these songs. Perhaps someone like Mitchell Froom could produce.

In addition, have Neil, Christine, and Stevie each bring in one new song. Could be completely new or simply an unrecorded old song. Record those three songs as well.

Now they'd have a fairly easily to finish new studio album of 10+ songs to release prior to the tour to add some excitement to the upcoming dates.

I read this in the Facebook group and actually just replied there haha. But I might as well reply here too!

That sounds like a pretty cool idea. My only concern with this would be that Neil would then be singing lead vocals on 80-90% of the new album, presuming Neil would be the one to cover the Green, Spencer, Kirwan and Welch (?) songs.

But to have something out before the tour would be a very smart idea. If they've rehearsed those seven or so songs then there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to a quick recording of them and record another few. Maybe two each for Christine and Stevie, and an original each for Neil and Mike (who is a capable singer-songwriter himself). There's your new 13-track album!

Secret God (Stew) posted:

Sugar Mouse posted:

You found the photo I posted on Facebook!

For some reason this Hoop.la forum distorts images disproportionately, so here's the direct link if anyone wants to download it.

c.houser posted:

Great pic

It was actually a screenshot from the Ellen performance and was heavily cropped and edited before I put it online. It was from directly after The Chain and that scene was only on screen for less than a second.

 

Sugar Mouse posted:

I had an idea today that could work well for the new Fleetwood Mac. The band would pick seven or more pre-Lindsey songs that would fit nicely with the new lineup.

For example, Oh Well, Dust, Come A Little Bit Closer, Why, For Your Love, Green Manalishi, Hypnotized, Man of The World, Spare Me A Little of Your Love, and The Way I Feel are some possibilities.

Then have the new lineup record new versions of these songs. Perhaps someone like Mitchell Froom could produce.

In addition, have Neil, Christine, and Stevie each bring in one new song. Could be completely new or simply an unrecorded old song. Record those three songs as well.

Now they'd have a fairly easily to finish new studio album of 10+ songs to release prior to the tour to add some excitement to the upcoming dates.

I read this in the Facebook group and actually just replied there haha. But I might as well reply here too!

That sounds like a pretty cool idea. My only concern with this would be that Neil would then be singing lead vocals on 80-90% of the new album, presuming Neil would be the one to cover the Green, Spencer, Kirwan and Welch (?) songs.

But to have something out before the tour would be a very smart idea. If they've rehearsed those seven or so songs then there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to a quick recording of them and record another few. Maybe two each for Christine and Stevie, and an original each for Neil and Mike (who is a capable singer-songwriter himself). There's your new 13-track album!

Completely agree. They can simply record their practice sessions and hire a producer/engineer to put the songs into album form. In a perfect world, they would record it online like Neil did for Out of Silence.

Secret God (Stew) posted:

Sugar Mouse posted:

You found the photo I posted on Facebook!

For some reason this Hoop.la forum distorts images disproportionately, so here's the direct link if anyone wants to download it.

c.houser posted:

Great pic

It was actually a screenshot from the Ellen performance and was heavily cropped and edited before I put it online. It was from directly after The Chain and that scene was only on screen for less than a second.

 

Sugar Mouse posted:

I had an idea today that could work well for the new Fleetwood Mac. The band would pick seven or more pre-Lindsey songs that would fit nicely with the new lineup.

For example, Oh Well, Dust, Come A Little Bit Closer, Why, For Your Love, Green Manalishi, Hypnotized, Man of The World, Spare Me A Little of Your Love, and The Way I Feel are some possibilities.

Then have the new lineup record new versions of these songs. Perhaps someone like Mitchell Froom could produce.

In addition, have Neil, Christine, and Stevie each bring in one new song. Could be completely new or simply an unrecorded old song. Record those three songs as well.

Now they'd have a fairly easily to finish new studio album of 10+ songs to release prior to the tour to add some excitement to the upcoming dates.

I read this in the Facebook group and actually just replied there haha. But I might as well reply here too!

That sounds like a pretty cool idea. My only concern with this would be that Neil would then be singing lead vocals on 80-90% of the new album, presuming Neil would be the one to cover the Green, Spencer, Kirwan and Welch (?) songs.

But to have something out before the tour would be a very smart idea. If they've rehearsed those seven or so songs then there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to a quick recording of them and record another few. Maybe two each for Christine and Stevie, and an original each for Neil and Mike (who is a capable singer-songwriter himself). There's your new 13-track album!

and amazing job on that photo ...

If Neil is enjoying it then 'good on him', but it sounded like a FM covers band. Stevie voice was off key and Neil singing such a strong LB song, it just didn't sound right. Such a shame as they were a great band, but its boarding on a tinge embarrassing, as it would a.n other vocalist standing in front of a reformed CH.

As someone not that familiar with LB, I thought it sounded very much like Neil Finn’s typical singing style.  The “yelps” going into a phrase are something he’s definitely done plenty before. I did note that he was using more of a full-throated, wide vibrato which he seems to do less and less of these days in his own work, but again, nothing foreign to his toolbox. 

Others have commented that MC should have used a Les Paul. Two thoughts...nobody noted that he did, in fact change to a Les Paul (I believe) for the solo. But also, why should he be totally beholden to what LB did? If he’s just going to repeat the past, why would he even do this? They can get a session player for that. I think he and Neil are hopefully free to diverge from tradition and bring some of themselves to this project...which was ostensibly why they were hired.

slowpogo posted:

Others have commented that MC should have used a Les Paul. Two thoughts...nobody noted that he did, in fact change to a Les Paul (I believe) for the solo. But also, why should he be totally beholden to what LB did? If he’s just going to repeat the past, why would he even do this? They can get a session player for that. I think he and Neil are hopefully free to diverge from tradition and bring some of themselves to this project...which was ostensibly why they were hired.

Also, LB hasn't played anything other than Turner 1s with FM in the '97-present era. So if people are wanting Mike to play what he played, a Les Paul isn't the answer. 

(I am not suggesting Mike should play a Turner. That would be approaching tribute act territory.)

Southern Cross posted:

I looked at a clip of FM performing 'The Chain' earlier this year. Made me a bit sad to watch. Lindsey seemed to be struggling and I gotta say Neil Finn is definitely in better voice atm. Stevie sounded quite okay, similar to last tour.

I keep seeing 'It's not Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey!' and that FM were no good at all before he joined. Really? They were in existence for 10 years before him and had perhaps the best white blues guitarist in their fold...

I'm a bit sad too, but some incredibly ignorant people. 

 

Ignorant?  Seriously?  

I am well aware of Fleetwood Mac’s existence before Lindsey Buckingham, but I am not a blues fan so don’t listen to those albums.  I was warmer towards Bob Welch and actually really loved the Heroes Are Hard to Find album.  But I am one who says it’s not Fleetwood Mac (that I would care to listen to) without Lindsey Buckingham.

Ignorant?  Seriously?

Wow.

“Ignorant” is a very poor choice of words. This may be the first time in 16 years I wished this forum had an ignore button.

Reading some comments on here I’m wondering if I witnessed the same performance . “ held his own “ is about as positive as it gets .... 

i thought the chain was Absolutley superb . 

Still wish he was going out on tour with Crowded House . They’re a better band for a kick off .

If Paul McCartney can tour endlessly, playing Beatles songs without his three former Beatles, then Fleetwood Mac can play without one member surely.

If The Who can play without two original members ...

if The  Stones can play on without Brian Jones, Bill Wyman, Mick Taylor then there is a place in this world for Fleetwood Mac ...

Have seen the better clip a few times, and I need to give this performance more credit. It's really pretty good for a band still warming up.  I could poke fun at this or that, but I'd rather send a vote of support, and I wish them a charged adventure. It will only get better and better!

I think people in general were a little hard on the band for technical things.  Yeah, they weren’t quite together in the break after the first chorus (watch Neil pause completely and watch, as if thinking “I better stay out of this and not make it more messy”). The main vocal trio weren’t perfectly in tune and it wasn’t mixed well. But, I agree that for a first performance of a new lineup it’s pretty tight.

I do think criticism is more warranted for the overall vibe. It did seem plodding at times and lacked intensity. None of which is Neil’s fault...he sang very well. It’s that mysterious question of chemistry. They’re still finding each other and while it wasn’t bad, even for a first performance I could have been more convinced on the chemistry front.

sinner62 posted:

If The Who can play without two original members ...

 

if The  Stones can play on without Brian Jones, Bill Wyman, Mick Taylor then there is a place in this world for Fleetwood Mac ...

Poor example they weren’t the lead member or lead singer of the band.

LB was the heart of FM

Saying LB was the heart of Fleetwood Mac is lan interesting take on things! Not one shared with the vast majority.  

You don't consider Paul McCartney a lead singer or core member?

Seriously, how can you say that? If Mccartney can tour from 1989 to 2018 dong 50% Beatles material, without core elements of the band - Lennon, Harrison and Starr...then certainly Fleetwood Mac can do it without LB. 

If the band are up for it , it's their choice and right.

sinner62 posted:

 

If the band are up for it , it's their choice and right.

Totally agree.

The great thing about art is: There are no rules. Try stuff out! FM found themselves in this situation, they found a way to deal with it that felt good. Good! See what happens and go from there.

That's why I think arbitrary generalisations like " X doesn't work/without Y" etc. (especially before anything substantial has happened to support/falsify this hypothesis) kind of miss the point... (The Crowded House universe has been there too, haven't we?)

OK I'm coming into this a bit late, sorry, but thanks to someone who alerted me to this thread.

As per our rules, we don't call people ignorant in general nor do we call them that if they disagree. Our rule is always mutual respect.

That being said, if someone is being disrespectful, don't fight it out among yourselves. "I'm so glad I fought with a stranger on a discussion forum," said no-one ever. Please report the post, which goes to me. I think it's under "Take Action" on each post.

I don't want people quitting over a small war of words. I don't want people quitting unless I'm banning them. Hopefully we can all get back on track here.

Side note: I couldn't make it through the performance. I went into it not expecting vintage FM or LB, but just found it cringey. I felt like Fleetwood Mac were karaoke'ing their own songs. 

What it comes down to me is Neil did what was essentially a good cover version, but just as nobody sings a CH/NF song as good as Neil, nobody sings a FM/LB song as good as Lindsey. Unfortunately, Stevie Nicks is just a shell of her former self.  Really tried to have high hopes for this, now not so much...

Here's hoping that our hero Neil can turn this into a huge pay day so that he can continue to fund his ongoing projects and still get out with his dignity intact. For me personally, this is just embarrassing watching him do this (was the Air Supply reunion gig booked already ?). Somewhere, Paulo is laughing so hard that his arse just fell off !!

Just listened to The Chain by Finnwood Mac and the 1997 The Dance version back to back.

Interesting comparison. The voices are SO much better on The Dance version. You can hear the vocal tone of each of the three distinct singers clearly and the blend and conplrmcom perfectly. What I got from The Ellen Show performance was Neil with a mush of backing. There was no space. Neil was fine, I'm wondering if Stevie and Christine have lost it to that degree. Or was it an atrotious mix? 

Or has there been a tendancy to old age bloat and they've over done the arrangement at the expense of the raw energy and urgency? I've always had a beef with the number of backing musicians you see in the wings with FM (see also REM) but there are as many side of stage as front here. 

That said, and I love Lindsey's playing, I thing the guitars were better here. More rocking and Neil played his part very tastefully. That song needs to cut loose and it did.

Neil_Fann

I've always had a beef with the number of backing musicians you see in the wings with FM (see also REM) but there are as many side of stage as front here. 

Not to drag this off topic, but I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Specifically:

- REM only had Peter’s guitar to fill that space, so they augmented with an extra guitar and sometimes keys live.

- FM already had Lindsay’s guitar + Christine’s keys, and they augment with 2 vocalists, guitar, keys, and percussion.

- REM also acknowledged their supporting players live - introducing them to the audiences, giving shoutouts after big moments, etc. FM ludicrously pretends it’s just the 5 of them on stage.

I agree with you that FM relies too much on the supporting players, I just don’t think REM can be tarred with the same brush.

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Neil_Fann posted:

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Tourfilm (‘89) definitely had one extra player on stage (Peter Holsapple), I don’t remember how heavily he features in the film but he was nearly made a full member around that time, so it’s possible he’s in it quite a bit. Roadmovie (‘95) had both Scott McCaughey and Nathan something, which I’d bet is the one you’re thinking of.

The other two groups you mention are really interesting choices. U2 has never had a fifth member on stage, true, but from ‘84-present they’ve used backing tapes to fill in the gaps - sporadically from ‘84-‘90, but from ‘91-present the vast majority of their sets have pads underneath, all masterfully controlled under the stage by Terry Lawless. On the 360 tour they would occasionally put a camera down there and show him on stage.

Queen from ‘73-‘81 were just the four of them, and you’re right, they made a HUGE sound. In ‘82-86 they had a keyboard player offstage (Fred Mandel in ‘82, then Spike Edney from ‘84-‘86, Spike has been Brian’s keyboard player ever since).

Thom Bullock posted:

Neil_Fann posted:

Fair comment, it's been many years since I watched the REM live video with a bunch of extras. I was watching a lot of U2 at the time and I remember thinking it was more impressive them doing what they do without the extras. Queen also produce a massive sound without help. So yes, FM should definitely strip it back some and I'll withold judgement on REM until I've researched Tourfilm or whichever it was in 1997ish....

Tourfilm (‘89) definitely had one extra player on stage (Peter Holsapple), I don’t remember how heavily he features in the film but he was nearly made a full member around that time, so it’s possible he’s in it quite a bit. Roadmovie (‘95) had both Scott McCaughey and Nathan something, which I’d bet is the one you’re thinking of.

The other two groups you mention are really interesting choices. U2 has never had a fifth member on stage, true, but from ‘84-present they’ve used backing tapes to fill in the gaps - sporadically from ‘84-‘90, but from ‘91-present the vast majority of their sets have pads underneath, all masterfully controlled under the stage by Terry Lawless. On the 360 tour they would occasionally put a camera down there and show him on stage.

Queen from ‘73-‘81 were just the four of them, and you’re right, they made a HUGE sound. In ‘82-86 they had a keyboard player offstage (Fred Mandel in ‘82, then Spike Edney from ‘84-‘86, Spike has been Brian’s keyboard player ever since).

The other guitarist was Nathan December, who was an old friend who used to manage Cole rehearsal studios in Los Angeles where my bands used to practice in the 90's. I remember watching a clip of R.E.M. and suddenly the camera pans past Nathan on stage with them. I hadn't spoken to him in years and called him, stunned, "How'd you get THAT gig? And where are my tickets?!" Really nice, talented guy - good singer/songwriter. 

koabac posted:

The other guitarist was Nathan December, who was an old friend who used to manage Cole rehearsal studios in Los Angeles where my bands used to practice in the 90's. I remember watching a clip of R.E.M. and suddenly the camera pans past Nathan on stage with them. I hadn't spoken to him in years and called him, stunned, "How'd you get THAT gig? And where are my tickets?!" Really nice, talented guy - good singer/songwriter. 

December! That was it. Great that you were able to reconnect with him like that, very cool story. 

I mentioned on a Facebook thread that it seemed nuts to still have the 3rd ( acoustic ) guitar player when they replaced Lindsay Buckingham with both Neil AND Mike on guitars ! 

I didn’t seem to get much in the way of agreement !

I am late to the thread, but I have to say I think that Christine McVie and Stevie Nicks are almost completely cooked vocally.  I think that is why they had Christine's mic down so low as to be non-existent (and Nicks' was almost as low in the chain).  Major star mic levels are not just randomly left that low for no reason.  Last year on CBS this morning in a promo for the Buckingham McVie release they did the same thing to McVie's mic - completely turned it off.  

When Stevie Nicks sang Gypsy I just felt bad for her.  It was way more than just 'pitchy' she has like less than 1/2 of her range and honestly sounded really bad to me.  It isn't surprising though, McVie is 75 and Nicks is 70. It is sad, because both of them were distinctive vocalists who were very talented singers in their own ways.  But time wins all of these battles.

Neil on the other hand literally saved the vocal performance of The Chain.  I think Neil's live voice is right now much much stronger than Buckingham's live voice.  I have been a fan of FM forever and seen them play that song live on literally dozens of occasions.  It was a fantastic song in their set when they could really go full out vocally.  But in the last few years Buckinghams live voice has been going massively downhill as well.   I did like Buckingham's voice on the latest album he did with McVie.  He can still record his voice and make it sound great for recordings.  

In the mid 2000's both Nicks and Buckingham could still pull off a great live vocal.  See the video below from 2005.  It is sadly just not the case anymore.  Hopefully Neil manages to keep his voice strong for another 5-10 years.

Buckingham Nicks 2005 Say Goodbye

I still have the same attitude about Neil joining FM.  He is so awesome, and has earned the right to do whatever crazy thing he wants to do.  I just don't get it.  

Well at least it's Fleetwod Mac and not Kanye West (but I guess Kanye has already grabbed Paul McCartney:-))