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For Melbourne music lovers, our old Crowdies drummer Peter Jones will be playing with a friend of ours- Bob Starkie (from the legendary Skyhooks).

The gig is at the Yarra Glen Grand Hotel (19 Bell St, Yarra Glen. PH-97301230) on November 21st.

3pm-6pm

So Crowdies fans who have never seen Peter Jones playing drums- he'll be at this gig. Wayne Duncan who played with Daddy Cool is on Bass.

Gryph
Original Post
Sorry. Peter Jones was a boring, unimaginative drummer. And he didn't have much personality, at least not that you could discern from the audience. Nick obviously has a great deal of fondness for him for some reason - perhaps just because he was dependable and solid as a player and I'm sure he's a nice bloke - but he just seemed out of his element in CH. He was an adequate interim solution, but nothing more.
quote:
Originally posted by KEROUAC:
That's interesting quadcaster as I really liked Peter's drumming. He was more of a rock oriented drummer than Matt which I think would have lent something else to the newer albums.

I never thought of Peter as a rock-oriented drummer. I thought he came from a jazz background: didn't he play with Kate Cerberano before hooking up with Crowded House? In any case, he could do that jazzy hip-hop swing/shuffle pretty well (Help is Coming, for example). But I'm not sure he would have thrived with the new material -- I can't imagine him bringing to Isolation what Matt did.

To my ears, Matt is *much* more of a rock drummer -- he can pound the skins a lot harder than either Peter or Paul did. But he's also incredibly versatile, thankfully.
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
Sorry. Peter Jones was a boring, unimaginative drummer. And he didn't have much personality, at least not that you could discern from the audience. Nick obviously has a great deal of fondness for him for some reason - perhaps just because he was dependable and solid as a player and I'm sure he's a nice bloke - but he just seemed out of his element in CH. He was an adequate interim solution, but nothing more.



Well I've seen the crowdies live three times thru the years. With Paul drumming at a free concert in Manakau Square Auckland in 94, with Peter at the REM/CH/Grant lee Buffalo triple bill at Western Springs Auckland in 95 and with Matt in Christchurch on the Time On Earth tour.

And ok I'll grant you that at the 95 gig it was Nick and Neil doing all the banter and jokes. But I was blown away by Peter Jones drumming. He's to my ears an exceptional rock drummer and I think it sucks how Matt always gets called Paul's replacement and generally people forget Peter.

Hey Mark Hart's a quiet guy on stage. Does that make him any less of an awesome talent? Course not. Same with Peter.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Loder:
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
Sorry. Peter Jones was a boring, unimaginative drummer. And he didn't have much personality, at least not that you could discern from the audience. Nick obviously has a great deal of fondness for him for some reason - perhaps just because he was dependable and solid as a player and I'm sure he's a nice bloke - but he just seemed out of his element in CH. He was an adequate interim solution, but nothing more.



Well I've seen the crowdies live three times thru the years. With Paul drumming at a free concert in Manakau Square Auckland in 94, with Peter at the REM/CH/Grant lee Buffalo triple bill at Western Springs Auckland in 95 and with Matt in Christchurch on the Time On Earth tour.

And ok I'll grant you that at the 95 gig it was Nick and Neil doing all the banter and jokes. But I was blown away by Peter Jones drumming. He's to my ears an exceptional rock drummer and I think it sucks how Matt always gets called Paul's replacement and generally people forget Peter.

Hey Mark Hart's a quiet guy on stage. Does that make him any less of an awesome talent? Course not. Same with Peter.
Being quiet and lacking personality are far from being the same thing. And, as a musician, I found nothing compelling about his playing. (That doesn't make me right; it's just my opinion.) I will, however, stand by my original statement. I've nothing against Peter Jones, but he was, as far as I'm aware, never a member of CH - any more than Mark Hart was before TA. He was a sideman, a hired gun. Matt Sherrod is a member of the band, hence him rightly being described as Paul Hester's replacement.
Hi Stuart
no i don't think he was, the guys really wanted a new fresh face in the lineup.

Some of my favourite Crowdies shows were with Peter Jones on drums. I remember at our house Hessie gave Peter the thumbs up and they chatted about songs etc. Paul was always very positive about Peter Jones as a drummer.

Nice guy too, so easy to dal with on the road.

Gryph
quote:
Wayne Duncan who played with Daddy Cool is on Bass


That rhythm section alone is worth the price of admission . Gryph .. I'm assuming that you will be going .. maybe you could grab Mark and the fancy HD Camera and prove it with some great footage. I'm sure the Soundboard guys will help out with sound connect ..ect yeah. C'mon .. we'd love to see this. Smiler
Adidasman, you are wrong. Paul left in 94, Peter Jones did officially replace him and drummed with them until their break up in 96.

Peter Jones was not a hired hand. He was a band member. He participated in the aborted 95 CH recording sessions. From which the song Help Is Coming comes from, which Jones also co wrote.

Paul only returned to play drums on the three new songs on Recurring Dream as it was the hits album was meant to mark the end of that era. Peer drummed at all overseas gigs to promote the best of, even when the break up announcement had been made. Paul only did the final aussie dates and the Farewell gig because the band was breaking up.

And my understanding from several sources is that when Neil and Nick got the band back together, Peter Jones was again offered the gig. As being a teacher is now apparently his main gig he turned it down.

Sorry but what you said really pissed me off. Not because it's a opinion thats different to mine. Hey I love and respect intelligent debate over good music, with like minded passionate people. But seriously dude, Peter Jones deserves more respect.
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
and yet Jeremy, Peter gets no acknowledgment on RD as being part of the band, the liner notes only state that CH are Neil Finn, Mark Hart and Nick Seymour. Confused

Peter's contribution is only acknowledged along with Tim, Eddie Rayner and Wally Ingram on the Live cd.


Yep, fair point. But that best of was representing the end of the first era with CH. So there weren't any songs on the studio best of disc to credit Peters drumming to. I actually think it was a mistake to bring back Paul to just play drums on those three new songs. Peter had drummed on at least the demo of Instinct. I love Paul and it was nice for fans to have him briefly come back. But I remember at the time feeling sorry for Peter.

Those band credits on recurring dream are not an accurate picture of who played on what. It makes it sound like Mark Hart played on every track, Tim only on Weather, Four Seasons and Natural and Paul was only a guest drummer for everything. No credit for Ricky for drums on Weather or any other guest musicians for each album.

Mark Hart only appears definitely on the four tracks from TA. He stated that his additional keyboard parts on Woodface didn't make it in the end and for the new songs on RD Mitchell Froom shut Mark out for most of it. And wasn't it mostly neil on a single guitar with Mitchell on keys.

And Tim plays on Fall At Your Feet as a band member too, plus backing vocalist for the Temple tracks.

Don't always trust the album credits of hastily released best offs.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Loder:
Adidasman, you are wrong. Paul left in 94, Peter Jones did officially replace him and drummed with them until their break up in 96.

Peter Jones was not a hired hand. He was a band member. He participated in the aborted 95 CH recording sessions. From which the song Help Is Coming comes from, which Jones also co wrote.

Paul only returned to play drums on the three new songs on Recurring Dream as it was the hits album was meant to mark the end of that era. Peer drummed at all overseas gigs to promote the best of, even when the break up announcement had been made. Paul only did the final aussie dates and the Farewell gig because the band was breaking up.

And my understanding from several sources is that when Neil and Nick got the band back together, Peter Jones was again offered the gig. As being a teacher is now apparently his main gig he turned it down.

Sorry but what you said really pissed me off. Not because it's a opinion thats different to mine. Hey I love and respect intelligent debate over good music, with like minded passionate people. But seriously dude, Peter Jones deserves more respect.
Gryphon says otherwise regarding Peter Jones being considered when they reformed, just a post or two above. If you can show me one single official picture of the band with Peter Jones in it, or one credit on a record or press release that mentions him AS A MEMBER OF THE BAND - not just as having played on a track - I'll apologize and revise my opinion of Peter Jones. His having played on the sessions they did in '95 doesn't mean anything; was Mitchell Froom ever considered a memeber of CH? No, and he played on tons of CH tracks. I don't mean to drag the guy down or anything, but he was just a fill-in. Nothing wrong with that. Anybody who got to play for a while with Crowded House has to be a good musician and a good guy, so my hat's off to him. (And I'm sorry I made you mad - I didn't mean to. I just think we need to keep Peter Jones' contribution to CH in perspective.)
quote:
Originally posted by Kittybear:
and yet Jeremy, Peter gets no acknowledgment on RD as being part of the band, the liner notes only state that CH are Neil Finn, Mark Hart and Nick Seymour. Confused

Peter's contribution is only acknowledged along with Tim, Eddie Rayner and Wally Ingram on the Live cd.
That credit, I always felt, referred to the members of CH at the time of the release of RD - not to anyone who had been a member previously (Paul, Tim). That's not the result of some hasty packaging of the album; that's very specific and intentional. That says, "Regardless of who's been in the band before - and that includes Paul Hester, who plays on the new songs - Crowded House are Neil Finn, Nick Seymour, and Mark Hart. Period." And, at the time of RD's release, CH were still an active band. That, along with the fact that Paul played on the new tracks, would lead one to assume that they considered CH a three-piece group at that time - meaning Peter Jones wasn't ever an official member of the band.
Also keep in mind that at the Farewell shows Peter Jones also jumped up for a play.

I have a feeling (and I'm away from the office so i cant check) that Recurring Dreams also didn't put Hessie (or Peter J) in the line up...on the cd book.

I can't remember why... remember when Recurring Dream was being released Crowded House were not breaking up. Paul was not the bands drummer and Peter Jones didn't feature on any songs on Rec Dream so that could of been why-so long ago it gets a bit blurry.

Peter was a full member but because the line up with him never made a record (only some demos and some of them were incomplete) he would of received limited royalties from releases.

Touring was different I think peter J was happy, his first gig with the band was one of the European festivals so about 80,000 at his first gig...and that was a bit different from the Vince Jones gig to 200 in Perth a week or so before.

I can remember plenty of happy periods with Peter on the road, just relaxed and enjoyable gigs. The band members liked him and he played well. So yeah he was a band member, money wise I tend to shy away from that as it's bands business not public.

But yep a band member....

Gryph
I think with most bands, it really takes time. Nick and Neil had been there since day one, Mark for numerous years (and as Mark will tell you it took awhile before he was 'fully' in the band...especially around the Tim joining era).

I think the main hinderance around Peter Jones being in Crowded House is that his time with the band wasn't all that long and especially around studio work.

In the end he was part of Crowded House, their drummer with the blessing from Hessie (could he of asked for a better reference?)

Gryph
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
Originally posted by Crisp:
"He served us well" is what Neil said of Peter Jones--the words "serve" and "us" have always
stuck with me, and the phrase taken as a whole implies what?
It implies a subservient role, I think. A secondary role.



This is getting ridiculous. We put the question to Mr Peter "Gryphon" Green. A man who has worked with Split Enz/CH/everything........ for some 30 years. Gryphon has stated Peter Jones was a band member. And I'd say that Gryphon would be closer to the band and know better than us. But rather than backing down graciously your trying to put your own slant onsomething Neil said. Could it be that your just taking Neil's words a bit to literally.

And like Gryphon said, just like with Tim at the farewell show CH had Peter get up on stage. So clearly Nick, Mark, Neil and even Paul wanted Peter to be part of what was at the time the final chapter of their career.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Loder:
quote:
Originally posted by adidasman:
quote:
Originally posted by Crisp:
"He served us well" is what Neil said of Peter Jones--the words "serve" and "us" have always
stuck with me, and the phrase taken as a whole implies what?
It implies a subservient role, I think. A secondary role.



This is getting ridiculous. We put the question to Mr Peter "Gryphon" Green. A man who has worked with Split Enz/CH/everything........ for some 30 years. Gryphon has stated Peter Jones was a band member. And I'd say that Gryphon would be closer to the band and know better than us. But rather than backing down graciously your trying to put your own slant onsomething Neil said. Could it be that your just taking Neil's words a bit to literally.

And like Gryphon said, just like with Tim at the farewell show CH had Peter get up on stage. So clearly Nick, Mark, Neil and even Paul wanted Peter to be part of what was at the time the final chapter of their career.


I agree with you Jeremy, Gryph's word is good enough for me.

However, maybe it's because CH took such along time to welcome Mark Hart into the House as a full band member that other Frenz are doubtful about Peter Jones' status as a full band member. I can also see Adidasman's pov that Peter Jones didn't seem to be in any promotional photos or videos after Hessie left (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

Finally I saw Peter play with the band at the Birmingham NEC on the TA tour and although he did fine, I really missed Hessie, especially when they did Sister Madly and got they got him out on a snare at the front of the stage.

Maybe it's because time has past, Hessie has past on and Matt has his own style and charisma but when Matt is drumming with CH I don't wish it was Hessie out there anymore.

But this post is moving into really sad territory so I think I will stop now.

KB
I'm not going to dispute anyone's word on this, and especially not Peter Greens, but my own impression at the time was that Peter Jones was a kind of unofficial 4th member, much like REM's current lineup. I'm sure I recall a comment in interview at the time that Ch were officially a three-piece but I've long since binned the magaizines from that time period so I can't substantiate that recollection. Certainly PJ wasn't included in any of the promo shots taken around the time of Recurring Dream and he wasn't listed as a full band member in that album's credits.
quote:
Originally posted by stuartjb:
For anyone who STILL doubts this (even though Gryph has made it crystal clear for crying out loud!) please refer to page 131 of the most recent edition of the book "Private Universe" by Kerry Doole and Chris Twomey.Here you will see a clearly "posed" publicity photo with Mark,Nick,Peter and Neil. Roll Eyes


I remember that, in the summer, the CH "Artist Link" on the BBC Radio 2 website showed a posed publicity photo of Neil, Nick, Mark and Peter (I think it was à propos Intriguer release; I may be wrong - but in any case ineptly out-of-date). It's not there now, but it may be the same pic that Stuart refers to.

It mystifies me that some believe that they have more accurate inside info than Peter on this subject. Seems a bizarre thing to be squabbling about.
Yes most certainly several publicity photos taken of the GROUP shot with Peter J. At least 2 sessions that I remember. I'll see if I have any shots in the media files over the next week...when we have some spare time.

I think with the band (at the time) it was such a short period in many ways that they probably looked upon Peters part in Crowded House as something that would grow organically ... (or not). In some ways it wasn't probably the worse time to 'join' a band.... it's just one of those oddity moments in Crowded House's career.

For me some great Peter J gigs, and the added bonus that he was a really nice bloke. So far we've been lucky all the drummers have been. Was stoked to catch up with Matt in Melbourne too.

Gryph
adidasman..I tend to agree with you, and I think sometimes people here have the best of intentions, but tend to overstate things out of a desire to support the band.

Peter Jones is a perfectly competent professional drummer, and he certainly didn't *not* fit in well. But he mostly just served his purpose for little while, and then things changed. I have nothing against him but he was a fill-in drummer for the band, and thus, that's probably how he should be remembered.

To elevate him much beyond that seems a bit silly - he's a "good drummer" in the same way that any professional touring drummer at that level is a "good drummer," but there's nothing terribly special about him IMO. There are many hundreds of drummers (if not more) who, while perhaps not as good a match for the band per se in terms of chemistry and style, are at least as skilled on a drum set as Peter Jones.

There's a certain x-factor that's hard to verbalize which really special musicians have. I think Paul Hester definitely had it on the drums. Matt S. is certainly at a higher level than Peter Jones, IMO, but I'm not sure he has that special quality. My comments are less a reflection of a negative opinion of Peter Jones, than an acknowledgment that superlatives get thrown about too easily in general these days, this board and elsewhere, and far fewer people actually deserve them than it would seem. The word "genius" is a good example. Isaac Newton was a genius, Tchaikovsky and Shakespeare were geniuses. Are even 0.1% of the people that are called geniuses in today's world, even remotely close to being at the level of those people? No. Even Neil Finn is, I'm sorry, not a "genius," not if we're also applying that word to Beethoven. He's certainly a wildly talented songwriter/musician, but that's not the same thing at all.

OK, I'm ranting now. Wink I'll just settle on saying that Peter Jones was a pretty good professional drummer who ably filled in for the band in a time of need. For that, we thank him and wish him well, and I see no reason to go further than that.
quote:
Originally posted by slowpogo:
adidasman..I tend to agree with you, and I think sometimes people here have the best of intentions, but tend to overstate things out of a desire to support the band.

Peter Jones is a perfectly competent professional drummer, and he certainly didn't *not* fit in well. But he mostly just served his purpose for little while, and then things changed. I have nothing against him but he was a fill-in drummer for the band, and thus, that's probably how he should be remembered.

To elevate him much beyond that seems a bit silly - he's a "good drummer" in the same way that any professional touring drummer at that level is a "good drummer," but there's nothing terribly special about him IMO. There are many hundreds of drummers (if not more) who, while perhaps not as good a match for the band per se in terms of chemistry and style, are at least as skilled on a drum set as Peter Jones.

There's a certain x-factor that's hard to verbalize which really special musicians have. I think Paul Hester definitely had it on the drums. Matt S. is certainly at a higher level than Peter Jones, IMO, but I'm not sure he has that special quality. My comments are less a reflection of a negative opinion of Peter Jones, than an acknowledgment that superlatives get thrown about too easily in general these days, this board and elsewhere, and far fewer people actually deserve them than it would seem. The word "genius" is a good example. Isaac Newton was a genius, Tchaikovsky and Shakespeare were geniuses. Are even 0.1% of the people that are called geniuses in today's world, even remotely close to being at the level of those people? No. Even Neil Finn is, I'm sorry, not a "genius," not if we're also applying that word to Beethoven. He's certainly a wildly talented songwriter/musician, but that's not the same thing at all.

OK, I'm ranting now. Wink I'll just settle on saying that Peter Jones was a pretty good professional drummer who ably filled in for the band in a time of need. For that, we thank him and wish him well, and I see no reason to go further than that.
Am I risking reopening this particular can o' worms if I give the majority of your comments a ringing endorsement? Probably. Smiler (I think more highly of Matt than you do - he's not Paul, but he's very good and a lot of fun to watch. I wish his playing came across as strongly on Intriguer as it does live, but I blame the producer for that. One thing for sure, though; Matt is not nearly as idiosyncratic as Paul was, and that hurts him when compared to the late Mr. Hester. Paul was the closest thing to Ringo I've seen - a true original.)

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