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Is anyone else out there feeling like I am today, or is it just a hormonal thing? I'm sad for America and the future of the whole world. But as sad as I am, I am very proud of the 100 celebrities who signed the letter urging against war.

I feel that the American government has gone WAY too far with its threats of first-strike nuclear attacks (I mean, what kind of hypocrite does that make us?)...after having already gone WAY too far in a variety of other ways (against other countries and against its own people, civil rights, etc.?). I'm feeling ashamed to be American today and wishing it were remotely possible for me to leave here and never come back...but it's not (for a variety of reasons out of my control).

Nobody I know except my dad is in support of a war...and that pretty much says it all. Do people really support this idea, or where is the media getting these approval figures? (Well, in fairness, we currently live in a climate where anyone who speaks out against the President or his policies is considered "anti-American...") Does anyone else feel like some of the decisions being made right now by a bunch of old, rich right-wing white guys may kill us all if our government doesn't wake up, and wake up fast?

I was just really, really deeply upset by the headlines today and need to feel like there's hope for the human race. I'm sorry to upset anyone or be controversial, but I need to find out whether it's just me (hard to tell anymore with this pregnancy stuff) or if there are others out there who feel this way at times, and how they get themselves through such times. I wonder what Neil does.
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quote:
Does anyone else feel like some of the decisions being made right now by a bunch of old, rich right-wing white guys may kill us all if our government doesn't wake up, and wake up fast?
Yes, because it's true. A man who can't even pronounce nuclear (if I hear him say Nuk-u-lar one more time, I swear... Mad ) has no business threatening people with it... and he certainly shouldn't be running this country. I am so frightened for our country and for the world.

No one I know wants war either, but maybe we live in a bubble Heidi. We are pretty liberal, we're women and we live in urban areas. There are a lot of people who have been fooled by the cowboy we have in office and all of his cronies. I knew something like this was bound to happen as soon as his sham election was "won".

There is a reason why other countries hate us. Many US policies are exploitive, invasive, greed-driven, unjust and completely hypocritical. And while I cannot support a culture that treats women as worse than second-class citizens, I don't think our country is a whole lot better. Our leaders are just better at disguising their evil deeds.

I don't know about you Heidi, but I am going to continue speaking out as much as I can. It's too late to worry about offending everyone. Our future is at stake. For one easy way to make your voice heard, go to http://www.workingforchange.com/activism/index.cfm. It may not be as big as chaining yourself to the White House gate, but if everyone takes the time to speak out, it may start to change things.

Heidi, I actually thought of you when I read about the latest war drums. I thought about all the people I know who are having babies. I think the best thing you can do right now is fill the world with love. You are doing that. Just love that baby and yourself and your family as much as you can, and keep negative energy away. Take care of yourself. With such a wonderful person as a mother, your baby is going to fight the good fight.
Guys, you have read my very thoughts. I am scared to death. It seems like W. is doing everything possible to start a war(especially since he failed to bag Bin Laden--guess he has to prove his "manhood" by picking fights). America is becoming the world bully.
And Sue, yes! How nauseating is that Trent Lott and the rest of his good ol'boy cronies? UGH! Talk about embarrassing. PATHETIC.
I'm thinking Canada might be a nice place to migrate to.
quote:
Originally posted by julie pergrem:
[qb]I'm thinking Canada might be a nice place to migrate to.[/qb]
Canada is a really great country in so many ways (sorry for the shameless plug). I could go on and on� Smiler

I can�t speak for other Canadians but I think many of us have mixed feelings about this situation (not including our Prime Minister�s Communications Director who obviously is not a Bush fan).

I think most of us feel that the U.S. is our more powerful, popular, wealthy and successful older brother (or sister). Sometimes you feel jealous of what they have and the attention they receive, but you love them anyway and defend them when they are threatened.

Canada is dependent on the U.S. for many things including trade and defense. If something terrible happened to the U.S. economy, I�m sure the Canadian economy would collapse. Also, our national defense program is really weak and we rely on the U.S. for their military force. Let�s face it, there is no way Canada could defend itself without help from the U.S. (even West Edmonton Mall has more submarines than the Canadian navy). Roll Eyes

I try to watch TV programs and read newspapers to keep up on current events as the possibility of a war affects all of us. Sometimes, it gets so overwhelming (emotionally and intellectually) that I feel it�s best to take a break and ignore some of the media coverage. Maybe this is simply burying my head in the sand, but sometimes I just need to give my brain a rest. Frowner
Hmmm I thought politics weren't allowed on this board. Different rules for different people maybe. Talk about discrimination Roll Eyes Confused ...

I haven't heard or read any articles on this so this is a may be a blind opinion? But hasn't George Jnr Bush's agrressive stance against Iraq forced them to comply civilisedly to UN / US led sanctions against accumulation of weapons of mass destruction. Yes I know, I know many don't link 9/11 to Saddam Hussein but in a universe of in_finn_ite possibilities it's better not to take a chance I say - plus he can easily giveaway those weapons to rogue terrorist groups.

I haven't been keeping up to date with the news for the past month but UNLESS some one can say there will be a NEW war against Iraq than Bush has failed. So far it looks like he's done a GOOD thing with keeping Iraq safe within stock pile MD weapon limits and doing so diplomatically even though he threatened war (And I stress the word "So far"). Sometimes reverese pscyhology can work you know. Eeker
K folks...before this gets too out of hand (and it seems like it's getting there in a couple of places...)

My intent with this thread was NOT to pick apart specific politics or current events, BUT to express my fear and helplessness (in general) about the state of the world in order to:

1. See if I'm the only one who feels this way at times or if there are others, and

2. See how other people stay positive if they ever feel this way, what they do to overcome it.

I attempted in my original post to give brief generalized examples of what made me feel that way that particular time (i.e. the headlines I saw), but tried not to get into any major in-depth political discourse (because then, I WOULD be here all day).

So folks, before any meanness starts (because frankly I think words like "discrimination" I've seen used on this thread are more confrontational than they need to be) I thought I'd better clarify both the original intent of my post and the reasons I posted it. If the mods decide to shut it down, fine. But if not, I think we're all Frenz here and should be respectful of each other and of the fact that there are obviously some very divergent political views here.

What my question was (and maybe I should have worded it better), was regardless of your political stance, do you find yourself upset, frustrated or feeling helpless about the state of the world and what do you do during those times to stay positive?
Thanks Heidi.

Yes, at times it all seems so frustrating.

I think that some things that we can do are (in no particular order)

join Amnesty International
write your Senator/ Congressperson/ President/ PM
VOTE (just vote, period, I don't care who for.)
join Greenpeace
be nice to each other

Of course, reuse, reduce, recycle.

play music, loudly, and dance around.

Hugs help too.
Originally posted by Heidi:

quote:
What my question was (and maybe I should have worded it better), was regardless of your political stance, do you find yourself upset, frustrated or feeling helpless about the state of the world and what do you do during those times to stay positive?
9/11 itself is what got me into music again in such a big way - music can be a really great comfort. Also, I found this community of people with so many similar likes, and not just in music.
In general, I spend as much time as I can with my family and friends and I try to laugh. Or go for a walk. I think exercise helps so much too. If you are religious, pray, go to church. Or explore another spiritual path if that is a comfort to you. Talk to people, hug your kids, go to a planetarium to see how small and insignificant we really are in the scheme of things. Go to a museum, looking at beautiful things can really warm the spirit.
There are things that you can do to change things, suenotsusan has a lot of good examples, but, there are some things that are beyond our control.
Some times you have to take a step back and turn off the TV and the radio once in a while. That's what I do.
Your feelings are partly hormonal, I imagine. Or maybe it's maternal.

I developed a sense of criticality when pregnant. You're looking at the world a little differently - it's to be your child's future home - Dammit! and it - and everybody in it -better shape up fast.

Then you have your baby and it turns out that the outside world is not as much of a problem for your child as the fact that he has you for a parent!!

That keeps your mind off world problems for, oh, several years.
certainly it's true many parents find themselves conceiving of things in all new ways when they have a life to protect. but i don't think it's maternal (or paternal) so much as human. because it's really about care, and thoughtfulness, and a sense of oneself as connected to others.

and i agree that it's a shame that those gifted enough to be able to express true concern are being suppressed in most of the media. the fact that questioning whether we should go to WAR sets you up as some democracy hating fringe element. i mean, heidi, what you are concerned for, it seems to me, IS the state of our democracy. among those i know, it's the people who care most about government and are most involved in civic life who are feeling as you are.

whatever it is - it's not just you.
am I upset about the state of the world...

in a word YES!

I thought that Australia would be safe from all this. But last night on the news I saw that we may become a target if we decide to side with America and strike on the muslim countries.

The leader (no Bin Laden the other one) said he would destroy Australia)

now don't get me wrong I have absoultely nothing against muslims and their beliefs. I do (on the other hand) have a problem with terrorists.

I wasn't scared at first but now I really am starting to worry. I mean so many of us here are so young (I'm only 16) but I understand what's going on. and I really don't like it.

I just want the world to be a happy place and for all this hatred and evil to disapear.

I really feel vulnerable to everything now.

(and lets face it our leader wouldn't know how to run a country with his eyes closed let alone with help from other nations on this 'terrorism' issue)

so yeah, I am scared and upset.

I want to die and old lady not 16 and with my whole life infront of me.

I just hope we've seen the worst of these attacks on the western culture.

well I hope you all have a safe and happy christmas and new year.

lots of love.

Kate! Smiler
I really wouldn't worry. The media has an annoying tendency to OVER-sensationalise things since TIME IMMEMORIAL Mad . That's the media's job. It wouldn't be media without (me) in it. Just have a look at what Tim Finn had to say it about it in his latest single "What You've Done":

"And the newspaper reporters spoiling ALL the fun"

If you think about it there have been over 400 days since 9/11/2001. There have ONLY been terrorist attacks on NO more than 20 or so of those days. That's a very low percentage strike rate -less than 5%.
And how many times did Bin Laden say there will be a HOLY war with Christians and Muslims? As Neil Finn wrote it in 1-0 1-1 "Driving Me Mad":

"Year after year DEMONS always come = FAIL to MATERIALISE"

The 'DEMONS' is a metaphor for all the threats or doom and gloom that have succumb throughout history and modern times. Most of them fail to transpire 100% tragically through FULLY or 'MATERIALISE'.

Except maybe for World War 1 & 2 I guess and a few other wars.
But did Hitler end up ethnic cleansing the world?
Or did the Cold War lead to a nuclear war?
Did the Y2K bug destroy computer and humankind 1-0 1-1 civilisation at the stroke of midnight January 1, 2000???
ANSWER: NO!!!

Don't ask the ANSWER if you WON'T like the QUESTION "Souvenirs" Neil Finn

So there you go a bit of enlightening positive WISDOM from the Finn's should calm all frenz nerves.

I guess humankind has always gotten through. Anyone can tell you that it's true. You feel it every time. When you drive away from home. The headlights hypnotise. They take you of into the sea into the night. You runaway from thoughts you cannot hide.

Sorry for the excessive use of Finn-isms!
First of all.....PREGNANT!!!!!!!!

Sorry but I have been away studying my butt off for the past couple months aso this is new news Heidi! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

Onto the thread subject itself, I cry often at the state of the world, being a mother pulls it all into some sort of scary focus. When I was pregnant even seeing a play on tv concerning kids being hurt upset me.

I try just to live for now, none of us know what tomorrow brings and although it is right, good and admirable to voice our protest at things we see as destructive in reality it is frighteningly out of our control.
This will not stop me speaking my mind of course.
If I spent the hours worrying about the future I would be wasting valuable time enjoying the present, and the present in my life is full of love.
Yes, it bugs me a lot. I feel rather powerless about it, too. And somewhat voiceless...

quote:
Originally posted by Heidi in Pittsburgh:
[qb]Nobody I know except my dad is in support of a war...and that pretty much says it all. Do people really support this idea, or where is the media getting these approval figures?[/qb]
I happen to be living in Texas, the breeding ground for war-mongers like George Dubya... and the public opinion here seems to be highly supportive of this sh*t. Not that I'm going around asking people their opinion or anything, because I find its safer not to discuss politics with people around here... But if I can go by what I've seen on the bumper stickers on the big ole pick-up trucks that so regularly edge me out in traffic, they seem to want to "Finish The Job" over in the Persian Gulf. Purty scary stuff!!

So, how do I deal with it? When I'm not burying my head in the blankets and hitting the snooze button way too many times, or trying to "Visualize Whirled Peas," I try to love people as much as possible.

You know how, when you see a baby in somebody's Wal Mart cart, they look you dead in your eye and they smile, act bashful, or otherwise show their true self to you? And how lovely that is?

This may sound obnoxious, but I often find myself catching adults in the same "off guard" moments, and share a smile or moment of genuine understanding with them. Crazy? I know. But everyone was a "cute baby" once, and all adults still carry that wonderfulness somewhere inside them. Sometimes I see it... at the gym, in the grocery store line, at concerts, sporting events, etc. and I think, "Aww..." Before I realize it, my soul has reached out to that person and, strangely, it is often well-received*. I get warmth in return. This, I find, along with hugging my kid and my hubby real tight at least twice a day, makes the moments of life a lot less scary.

Hang in there!

* I can't speak about other places, but I've been to Canada recently and the Canucks are WAY more receptive, friendly, etc. than us "ugly Americans," but the loveliness is still in there, I swear I've seen it often enough-- even here in George Dubya-land! Love to all.
Righto, so I'm going to sound very right wing here but come on.

We (in the west) didn't start this aggression.

Attacks like 9/11 in the US, and the Bali bombings which killed so many of my countrymen, have just made me even angrier.

I just read out a few phrases of this debate to my husband, and sorry folks but I have to agree with his reply... "Imagine what Saddam would have done if we didn't have nuclear weapons. Sorry, but I think that nukes have been the biggest deterrent to war since it began..."

Sad to say, people, I have to agree with him. There are very evil people out there in the world... and we can't all be touchy-feely all the time...

Trust me, Cynicism. It's the only way I have kept safe in this big, wide, nasty world.

That said, I shall not be engaging in any arguments here, I just wanted my thoughts heard. Sometimes you just can't reason with the bully (to the forum member who gave me that idea/quote, hugs gal... you know who you are) Smiler
While frenz.com is really about MUSIC and musicians, we sometimes let other topics sneak in. However, when it comes to things that have to do with politics and religion (or other really hot issues), we tend to shut these topics down. They are too hot with people on very diverse sides and it sometimes gets personal and ugly.

So if you're going to continue, make sure it stays open and friendly. Too heated or disrespectful and we'll have to close it down. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by frenzwebmistress:
[qb]Too heated or disrespectful and we'll have to close it down. Thanks.[/qb]
... Or too right-wing, perhaps, Deb? Why do all of us have to toe the left-wing line when extremists continue to have their way with the world?

Why did this comment of yours follow mine, I wonder. Coincidence, or was it just that I wasn't so touchy-feely left wing innocent as others?

God yes I am depressed about the state of the world too. But I don't think we should lie back and just take the terrorism and evil that is the result of some very evil people who call themselves "leaders"...

Just my thoughts... ahem...
You should know me better. How about it came after yours because this is the FIRST time I read the thread because I barely have time to check in on the forum. Kia, I know why you reacted this way, and I can only tell you that it's not how I feel.

I personally don't care about right-wing or left-wing. I barely know what they mean! I don't label, I don't assign blame, and I am not going to add my 2 cents to the thread because I'm too positive. Smiler

I am only trying to maintain the tone and climate of the forum. This type of topic is uncomfy for a lot of people and as we can see from a variety of replies, it's HOT. At times, we have to close topics that are too heated no matter what the subject matter. I don't want things to get ugly between frenz, dat's all. I hope moderators will stand behind me on that.

Thanks.
quote:
At times, we have to close topics that are too heated no matter what the subject matter. I don't want things to get ugly between frenz, dat's all. I hope moderators will stand behind me on that.
As co-moderator, I've been keeping up with this topic, and while so far I haven't agreed with all the comments and opinions I've read, I think it has been an interesting source for debate....and debate is something I love. However I will step in if it gets nasty or if Forum rules/spirit is clearly broken, or if I think it's needed.

We're treading a fine line at the moment with passionate subjects like this one, but so far I think no-one's overstepped. All opinions deserve to be heard, provided that we remember that each opinion and individual deserves to be treated with respect and the right of reply. If people don't stick to the rules on this, the topic will go.

A.
As an Australian living in the US the thing that has struck me most since September 11 is the prevailing attitude that sending men with guns into the middle east will somehow solve this problem . . . .

If anything contributing to instability in the middle east will see many more innocent people killed while the real terrorists escape unscathed.

anyway, blah blah blah . . .
This topic has made me feel a bit better. It's nice to know that there are people in America that don't agree with what's being delt out.

I don't really follow the news and have tried my best to aviod whats going on but it still seeps through. I'm more frustrated that the rest of the world - especially the UK, seems to have it's tongue firmly up Bush's bottom. Makes me want to scream. Think he's more of a threat than Saddam Hussain et al could ever be!

Don't think it's just a hormonal concern - think it's a genuine worry. I do however think that every generation goes through this kind of thing -the whole Cuban thing must have felt similar, if not worse, and then there's all the proper wars.

And after a while you get used to the whole terrorism thing - ask any long term Londener and they'll tell you that you just have to not think about it. If it happens, it happens!
I still think it's weird seeing a rubbish bin in a public place - made me really happy to see one in Auckland Airport - so not expected.
Heidi thank you for posting this thread.
no matter what our beliefs are, or what all is going on in our lives, the current world stuff is always a ghost on the horizon, even when there are local issues in your backyard (in my yard we deal with a lot of social and environmental things) . in a nutshell yes, i worry about the things that are right now. i try not to let it get in the way of this moment and figure i should enjoy life right this minute because it may not be there tomorrow.(i'm the type who'd obsess and go crazy if i didn't do that) I'm a bit relieved to know its not just me. i'm not kidding myself, the world has never been stable, and neither has my backyard, but when the world is more visible in your backyard it's suddenly a lot bigger than "those people in (name volatile reigion here) who can't escape the bombs and shooting. " I think i'm against war more for the people on the other side than for us.(esp. considering that the us is courteous enough to go to iraq themselves) though i don't think its good for anyone for that matter and i honestly can't think of anything i'd send my frenz' children to die for. yes i feel helpless although i vote, i do the actforchange thing, and i work like crazy for an amazing life, and to try to touch what i can. i don't know that it helps anything, i don't know if my posting even says anything here but it's really good to read these and know i'm not alone in my private universe. (amidst my lovely tribe of flaming liberal frenz) Smiler I know my flesh and blood frenz are concerned it's refreshing to see the nice people in cyberspace concerned too. thank you to everyone who is speeking up, even if you think differently. now i'm gonna go do my recycling and go to bed. sweet dreams y'all.

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