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Neil Finn messages = 222
Tim Finn messages = 77

hmmm,

I know this person versed with an educated and vast knowledge of pop music. He understood the importance of Nirvana, the popularity of R&B in the 90s etc. A competent rock historian you could say. Yet he never has given Tim Finn a chance ...

In fact I know and sense that many people discount Tim a little to easily. It's always Neil been more famous and that been the general consensus, from what I've experienced. I once held that premature belief. However listening to Split Enz stuff and Tim's solo work it strikes me how good he is. It even seems like he is a more grander producer / arranger of a the pop song medium, and uses more soundscapes than Neil . I'd even put Split Enz ahead of Crowded House. Though we have not seem Tim get the commercial & critical accolades he so rightly deserves, or to the extent brother Neil collects them. I really sympathise there because he is as every good as Neil but I have this niggling doubt and feeling that the general public and even the general Finn fan dome will never see this. I know 2 Neil fanatics that give Tim a pass by ...

I'd just like to say for the record that I wish Tim every bit of success and recognition because your as every good as Neil. Some questions:

1) Was there much general critical praise for Tim's solo work?

2) How about chart placements?

3) Was there (as I heard) a big backlash and abandonment of Tim's Big Canoe (an album that is so grandly produced, as per anything Tim ever does) ?

[This message has been edited by Jose Bay (edited 19 August 2000).]
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Tim had good reviews for Tim Finn and Before & After from Q magazine, a promiment UK music magazine. Before & After is his only solo chart LP in the UK, Persuasion and Hit The Ground Running charted as singles too. I think generally, he is known as the brother of Neil through Crowded House's success from Woodface (ironically), but has been forgotten since his departure from Crowded House. Indeed Neil is probably better known as a member of Split Enz rather than Tim, as their two hit singles in the UK were Neil's compositions (I Got You, History...) Again, fate intervened, when the BBC banned Six Months In A Leaky Boat during the Falklands conflict. The UK audience don't know what they are missing - Say Is It So hasn't had a UK release.

Personally, I think Big Canoe has terrible production! Tim is not a good rocker to me - he is a great balladeer - Hyacinth is probably as sweet as any of Neil's ballads.

I think both Tim and Neil's songs have improved since the end of Split Enz. I do like Split Enz, just not as much anything Ti or Neil has done since. Fave Enz album - Conflicting Emotions - great songs and singing.
In my opinion, ever so humble as it may be, Tim is by far the bigger talent. He has a better voice than Neil, writes better songs than Neil, and is about a million squillion times better looking than Neil.

Before and After is a classic album, I love it to bits and play it all the time. Persuasion has to be one of the best songs ever.

Look at Crowded House ... Woodface was arguably the best album they produced, most of the songs co-written by Tim. Isn't it funny that they weren't successful over here in the UK until that album? Seems to me that Tim's genius in the songwriting department has to count for a lot of that success ... just my opinion of course!

It's always really annoyed me that Tim gets passed over ... if you think about it, it was him that gave Neil a chance ... I can't deny that Neil is very talented, but I wonder if it wasn't for Tim and Split Enz, would Neil be as successful as he is today. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Tim is the tops!
Phil Judd is of course better than either Finn... :-)

Seriously though, I want to put forward my humble opinion that much of Tim's best work (Disclaimer: I'm talking about Enz + Woodface, while not writing off his solo career)was executed while he was in a band with collaborators, so to speak.

Whether it be Finn/Judd or Finn/Finn in the Enz or Finn/Finn in Crowded House/"Finn Brothers", Tim seems to do better when he's in a band environment where his ideas bounce off the other members, especially the writing ones. I think that Neil Finn carried himself better in a "solo" sense (in that he wrote most of the CH stuff himself) then Tim did in his solo efforts. And for the record I tended to prefer Tim's material to Neil's both in a general sense and definitely in the Enz environment.

Paul.
Well yes of course Phil Judd is completely wonderful as well, but that's a different story altogether ...

Actually I was thinking about this more today ... it's true that Tim's best work is collaboration with others, but who cares anyway! It doesn't really matter who wrote what, I'm more interested in listening and enjoying than philosophising about whether Tim's best work was on his own or with Phil or Neil or whatever.
YIPPIE! I have finaly found a place to indulge my Tim Finn craving!
I, for one, have always been a Tim fanatic....Neil just never intrigued me as much lyricly. I have found over the years that I am CONSTANTLY having to tell people who he is though, definaitly an underdog in this country. His first two albums were never even released here to the best of my knowledge, I had to track down imports. BTW, I have Big Canoe on as I'm typing this....heehee....
Sorry Wenbird but all of Tim's solo albums were released in the states, in fact Escapade got some serious airplay my way. Which in my opinion is as it should be. I look at Escapade and Big Canoe as Tim's attempt to appeal to a very broad audience. There are alot of dance beats here. I think Escapade was the better of the two but that's just personal opinion, both are very good records.
Really? What labels were they released on? I'm just wondering since I got Big Canoe not too long after it came out, about '87 and it's on Virgin, who I didn't think released in the States on their own. So now I'm wondering if it IS an American copy I have or an import. I never did find Escapade on vinyl but I did find it on CD and I know that one's an import since it's a Mushroom release. My Big Canoe CD is also clearly an import, this time from Germany but the record isn't really marked as to what country it's from.
Wenbird - I believe your Big Canoe was mfd in Germany. Mine (bought from HMV back when the earth was still cooling) was from Germany, with the cat#cdv2369.

I think Tim is a great songwriter, easily one of the top 5 in my book. I do think his stuff is greatly affected by his collaborators, and so far I think his best partners are Richard Thompson, Neil, and Liam and Andy, in terms of writing. Production-wise, I think Langer & Winstanley, Mark Hart, and Mitchell Froom are tops, with Nick Launay and (?)Brock being the worst producers and collaborators.
I think Big Canoe has aged the poorest of the four older albums, and opening the disc with Spiritual Hunger, a remake of Mr. Catalyst (not a great Enz tune) really makes me wonder what kind of stuff didn't make the album. I'm also kinda surprised that Eddie (co-writer on Mr. C) didn't get any songwriting credit for his part. Musically the 2 songs are almost clones, with the lyrics being changed, and lyrics were never Eddie's thing.
I definitely agree that Tim has gotten shafted in terms of recognition, sales, fame, stalkers, etc in most places on earth, but if you're ever in Edmonton, Ab in a bar with some 30+ people, you'll find that a pretty big chunk of us remember "Through the Years" and "Minor Key" while we were in jr. high or high school. Myself, I was 13 in grade 8 worrying that the Enz would break up since Tim had released a solo, and discovering other bands like the late great Platinum Blonde, Talking Heads, and the Police. Kinda wierd how every almost every band I've liked, with the exception of the Cure, the Oil, and U2 have broken up. Oh well, if the Enz had never parted, look what we would have missed out on!

------------------
Kol
Kol - sorry to give you the news but The Cure have indeed broken up. Englands' finest band in 2 decades. The Cure made the (seemingly) unforgivable mistake in England of releasing an album that was a tad confusing for the muso critics over here (it's called Wild Mood Swings and is lyrically excellent as per normal). The album was panned and they disappeared for a little. They returned last year with very definitely their finest work ever - Blood Flowers - which was again ignored. This is another of the growing casualties of the boy act (they are not bands) marketing extravaganza. It is time for parents to start taking a little responsibility over what they buy their children to listen to I feel...

Cheers - Lozza. http://get.to/bitz
Big Canoe was released on Virgin in the US in 1988, but two years after it was released everywhere else.

If Wenbird only has Escapade on CD then she hasn't had the pleasure of hearing "Below the Belt." If you have Escapade on vinyl only (I have it on vinyl, cassette - remember those? - and the import CD) then you might not have heard "Grand Adventure" which was the Australian alternate track.

What always throws me off is the playlist is different - after listening to the US version for almost 8 years I have never gotten used to the lineup on the CD.


AM Release

Fraction
Staring at the Embers
Through the Years
Not for Nothing
In a Minor Key
(Side 2)
Made my Day
Wait and See
Below the Belt
I Only Want to Know
Growing Pains

Mushroom Release

Fraction too much Friction
Made my Day
Not for Nothing
In a Minor Key
Grand Adventure
Staring at the Embers
Wait and See
I Only Want to Know
Growing Pains
Through the Years

I actually think the AM lineup works better. Staring at the Embers sounds good right after Fraction, Made my Day is a good opener for side 2 (album sides - remember those?) and Growing Pains is a great closer.


[This message has been edited by PeterF (edited 05 October 2000).]
tim has always been my favourite songwriter (he's also the man who got me into music & the reason i picked up the guitar). both finns write the most superb pop songs round, but i think tim tends to vear off in a more classic pop with a slight artistic twist/soft craziness (if that makes any sense) about it all in his solo career & not a lot of the mainstream public seem to 'get it' anymore. when it comes to split enz, tim's songs were always held in higher regard to me. he has such of a creative flare, which shows on every album he's been a part of, each having a separate & distinct sound & feel to it

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