2016 Album Reissues: What's Missing?

I'm surprised that the 24-track tapes were transferred at Roundhead (and so long ago!). I assumed they'd all live in a big vault at Capitol and would have been transferred by Universal at whatever their favourite studio is. Your description sounds positively home-made!

Jaffaman this is tremendous.  Thank you!!

Can I ask two more quick omission questions?

1) Were 5.1 mixes considered, and are they possible in the future or is Neil against them in principle?

2) Those more "wild" Youth extended mixes of TA material mentioned in Bourke and sounded so tantalizing---were they considered or was that all hype (so to speak)?

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain!!

 

Jaffaman,

I must add my thanks as well! Loving the behind-the-scenes details on the reissue bonus tracks! 

Thanks 

Can I ask , while we`re delving into this topic, when and how the project morphed from a Rarities Box to a back-catalogue-remaster/ rerelease-with-bonus-tracks?

Cheers!

Mike

Yes, I do want to say thank you to Jaffaman for taking the time to respond to questions. I've been a CH fan since DDIO put a tiny dent in the UK top 40 back in 1987 and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to discuss the content of their albums with the man who's done so much work behind the scenes. I feel very very privileged.

Jaffaman posted:


The 24-track transfers were done at Roundhead, mostly by Neil Baldock, in 2006.

I assume you are talking about unreleased studio recordings, not the albums proper? Any details on the new transfers and mastering of the original albums would be greatly appreciated.

Also, I've always thought their performance of Distant Sun on the Tonight Show is easily one of their very best performances I've ever heard, and I even speculated it might make it in the box set. Even though it didn't, I'm not sure what the ownership issues are, or if Crowded House has any access to that recording, but man, it would be wonderful to have a nice clean copy of it someday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRf9a98BMRc

Paul H posted:

I'm surprised that the 24-track tapes were transferred at Roundhead (and so long ago!). I assumed they'd all live in a big vault at Capitol and would have been transferred by Universal at whatever their favourite studio is. Your description sounds positively home-made!

There are a number of big vaults here and there.

As somebody who's not a regular on these forums (well, I suppose I crop up regularly when there are tours!), I had no idea about most of these rarities. I knew about some of the most famous, but I've heard almost none of them; it wasn't until this thread that I learned of some things like "Frank's Dark Past"! (Hint hint anybody...)

To tell the truth I was not even aware the reissues were actually coming. Just a couple of weeks ago I was telling a friend about how much I hoped the rumoured box set of rarities would see the light of day sooner rather than later. Suffice it to say I am absolutely thrilled, and I'm gobsmacked at how extensive the reissues are - the bonuses are astonishingly good value, it's like I'm getting seven extra albums.

My point is, I want to say a big thanks to Jaffaman for all the hard work and all the informative posts in this thread. These details are absolutely fascinating to me and just serving to make me more excited. Must I wait over a month to get my hands on the reissues!

Jim B. posted:

Jaffaman this is tremendous.  Thank you!!

Can I ask two more quick omission questions?

1) Were 5.1 mixes considered, and are they possible in the future or is Neil against them in principle?

2) Those more "wild" Youth extended mixes of TA material mentioned in Bourke and sounded so tantalizing---were they considered or was that all hype (so to speak)?

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain!!

 

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. Even the where-is-the-rare-remixed-recording-of-Neil-eating-lunch-which-has-never-been-heard-by-anyone-therefore-it-should-have-been-on-it-and-what-a-rip-off-I'm-not-going-to-buy-it-now people

5.1 mixes were considered... by me, anyway. Never could get anyone else interested in the idea, least of all Neil. It's expensive to do, especially for seven albums at once. Still, I like to hope.

Didn't come across any "wild sound" mixes on the TA tapes. Not sure if they were added to the multi-tracks or were to be flown in during the mixdown. Couldn't check all the multi-tracks due to time and cost. I know there's a quote in the book about Bob leaving all their collected sounds off but I reckon it's exaggerated.

MiKE42 posted:

Jaffaman,

I must add my thanks as well! Loving the behind-the-scenes details on the reissue bonus tracks! 

Thanks 

Can I ask , while we`re delving into this topic, when and how the project morphed from a Rarities Box to a back-catalogue-remaster/ rerelease-with-bonus-tracks?

Cheers!

Mike

My pleasure. I've kept it all bottled up for so long.

It was originally supposed to be a US Capitol Records box set of unreleased, rare, and live tracks in time for the band's 20th anniversary in 2006. For various reasons we kept missing deadlines. Then Parlophone in the UK released Farewell To The World, the band reformed, EMI and Capitol started disintegrating, etc..

Every year I was told the project would be picked up later in the year until, last year, it started coming true! The idea from management - or was it a record company? - was to release 2CD deluxe editions of the first four albums.

Then Time On Earth and Intriguer were added. I had the option of splitting up Afterglow and adding the tracks to their relevant albums but both Neil and I think it works really well as an album in its own right. Plus, I needed somewhere to put the 1995-6 era tracks, including those recorded for Recurring Dream.

Paul H posted:

Yes, I do want to say thank you to Jaffaman for taking the time to respond to questions. I've been a CH fan since DDIO put a tiny dent in the UK top 40 back in 1987 and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to discuss the content of their albums with the man who's done so much work behind the scenes. I feel very very privileged.

Nice of you to say! I've long admired your passion for the music and the audio craft, on this forum and elsewhere, Paul H. All this was done with everyone here in mind, believe me.

harrytrousers posted:

So I looked up page 330 of something so strong. I think Jaffaman is saying that "Loose Tongue" was the "dark heavy song" they tried to record for "Recurring Dream".. Which means it would have Hester and Seymour on it I guess.

Got it.

Jaffaman posted:
Paul H posted:

Yes, I do want to say thank you to Jaffaman for taking the time to respond to questions. I've been a CH fan since DDIO put a tiny dent in the UK top 40 back in 1987 and I never thought I'd have the opportunity to discuss the content of their albums with the man who's done so much work behind the scenes. I feel very very privileged.

Nice of you to say! I've long admired your passion for the music and the audio craft, on this forum and elsewhere, Paul H. All this was done with everyone here in mind, believe me.

You make me blush, Jeremy. Seriously though, I've done a lot of work (and spent a lot of money) curating a collection of their releases, I keep my own discography and, although I've never so much as stepped foot in a recording studio, I'm fascinated by the process of making records. So, to be able to chat with someone who is first-hand involved, really is something special. You are Crowded House's equivalent of Giles Martin   and I excitedly scoop up any and every bit of insight into the process you can offer.

Another question (I'm sorry): will the booklets provide recording date and/or source info for each track (original albums as well as bonus material)? If not, might there be a way of making this available? Along with hearing all this new material, it would be fascinating to know more about the recording processes, which tracks were recorded when, in what order etc etc. 

Jaffaman posted:
Then Time On Earth and Intriguer were added. I had the option of splitting up Afterglow and adding the tracks to their relevant albums but both Neil and I think it works really well as an album in its own right. Plus, I needed somewhere to put the 1995-6 era tracks, including those recorded for Recurring Dream.

And so far (this may change when hearing all the tracks) this the most brilliant release of them all. The bonus tracks here looks promising.

Can I ask you why most unwanted wasn't included ?

Axver posted:

As somebody who's not a regular on these forums (well, I suppose I crop up regularly when there are tours!), I had no idea about most of these rarities. I knew about some of the most famous, but I've heard almost none of them; it wasn't until this thread that I learned of some things like "Frank's Dark Past"! (Hint hint anybody...)

To tell the truth I was not even aware the reissues were actually coming. Just a couple of weeks ago I was telling a friend about how much I hoped the rumoured box set of rarities would see the light of day sooner rather than later. Suffice it to say I am absolutely thrilled, and I'm gobsmacked at how extensive the reissues are - the bonuses are astonishingly good value, it's like I'm getting seven extra albums.

My point is, I want to say a big thanks to Jaffaman for all the hard work and all the informative posts in this thread. These details are absolutely fascinating to me and just serving to make me more excited. Must I wait over a month to get my hands on the reissues!

Thanks, Axver. I do believe it's good value. Each bonus disc is a whole album's worth or more. The books have great pictures, all the lyrics, liner notes from either the producers or music writers who know their CH, technical notes from me and interviews I did with Neil, Nick and Tim in July, talking about the songs, recordings and artwork. And the boxes look so good stacked up in a row.

Paul H posted:
You make me blush, Jeremy. Seriously though, I've done a lot of work (and spent a lot of money) curating a collection of their releases, I keep my own discography and, although I've never so much as stepped foot in a recording studio, I'm fascinated by the process of making records. So, to be able to chat with someone who is first-hand involved, really is something special. You are Crowded House's equivalent of Giles Martin   and I excitedly scoop up any and every bit of insight into the process you can offer.

Another question (I'm sorry): will the booklets provide recording date and/or source info for each track (original albums as well as bonus material)? If not, might there be a way of making this available? Along with hearing all this new material, it would be fascinating to know more about the recording processes, which tracks were recorded when, in what order etc etc. 

Name dropping a bit here I know, but have you heard my interview with Giles Martin, talking about George Harrison? Wish I had Giles' ears and skills, let alone his projects!

I've researched the date and location info as well as I could for the bonus tracks. No further technical info for the original album is listed. Didn't have access to the documentation (time, money, etc).

This is fantastic stuff! 

Im thrilled how this project has finally turned out - it has certainly surpassed my expectations. I can't wait for Nov. Thanks so much for all the hard work put into this Jaffaman and being so responsive to all the questions. It is amazing how the Forum has suddenly sprung to life again!

I think the content for the bonus discs is bang on and it has been great to get an understanding of why some things that we may have expected aren't there (I'm happy for Franks Dark Past and Pieces of Change to stay unique to the Homebrew club CD given there are no studio versions). 

My only question would be if there was any material post Intriguer available for consideration? I know mention was made at the time of the band being briefly in the studio with some new songs after the Intriguer tour but nothing ever came from it. I always wondered how much was actually achieved during those sessions...

@Jaffaman congratulations and a million times thank you, again!  the mythical 'boxed set'!  

these releases qualify as credit card emergency spending for me.  this thread is so much fun!  

as much as neil has talked about it, over the years, i'm a little surprised that 'throw your arms around me' wasn't thrown in somewhere?  i know, plenty of exposure, but still never official?!  maybe saving it for next c h album 

Throw your arms around me. Good call. Maybe it's been held over for the Finn deluxe version like some of the Finn bros demos from the era that became Woodface. This will then link into the reissue of Everyone is here with the Visconti mixes and then Neil's first two solo albums. Or am I being greedy?

Jaffaman posted:
Patjoller posted:

Can I ask you why most unwanted wasn't included ?

Neil didn't like it much.

First he didn't like She's Not There, then he didn't like Most Unwanted. Frankly, while I love his music, I don't agree with his taste in his own work! Man's a fool to himself!

Most Unwanted is absolutely terrific. It's possibly the ONE recording I wish I had a high quality version of; everything I've heard has been recorded badly.

Steve Shealy posted:

At the risk of sounding ungrateful (I'm not) or contrarian, "not missing much" is in the ear of the beholder. I'm beyond thrilled with what we ARE getting, but am pretty sad that Cemetery in the Rain didn't show up. I don't know why I got a bit obsessed with that one a while back, but it piqued my imagination. Speaking for myself, I'd MUCH rather have even a "sub-par" track that is totally new to me than a demo/live/alternate version of a well-known one. Even Neil's throwaways are so much better than most of what is out there. Still, there are plenty of songs I've never even dreamed of in that list, so can't complain.

I'm so excited, though. It's going to be tough waiting till November, but after all, we've been waiting now since what, 2005? So a couple of months shouldn't be that bad. At least the end is in sight. 

And still holding out for new CH, after the Neil/Liam release.

Totally agree Steve - really hope they can keep the momentum up with a new album tour in the not to distant future ...

Neil said on 60 minutes that "they love playing together - they just aren't doing it too much at the moment.."  - he used the car parked up in the garage analargy again. That's given me enough encouragement to suggest there's nothing final about this gig or music issue.

Jeremy , Thanks for all your hard work on this project (thanks to Neil and the band also)..

This has been a Holy Grail for me and so many others , and I now can't wait .

Really want to buy the vinyl / CD's - the whole lot !

 

 

Woah, some really interesting responses from a lot of people! Will re-read through all these again

Meanwhile, like I mentioned in the original post, I had planned to edit it with updates to all the songs not present in these re-releases. And then this message popped up...


Deb, is there a reason for this restriction? And any possibility you could remove it? I seem to recall being able to edit my Frenz Forum posts all the way back in 2001 when I first joined up.

Hello all---

First, thanks Jaffaman for your years of work on the reissue project.  I admit it...I lost hope years ago.  But you were persistent, and that all-too-rare trait has resulted in a huge blessing for the fans.  We all know that no one forced you all to release this "new" music, and the fact that you've all spent so much time, energy, and money making it happen shows how much you and the band care about the fans.

Thoughts...where to begin...?

[1] So...I know this is a discussion about the bonus tracks, but Jaffaman, how are the remasters?  TEMPLE always sounded a little tinny to my ears, so I'm wondering if the remaster gave it a little more body without being too loud and noisy.

[2] I find it curious that the Byrdhouse tracks were included but not "She's Not There."  I would have expected there to be publishing/rights issues with including the old Byrds songs.

[3] I love that fact that one of my all-time favorite CH tracks, "Left Hand," appears not once, not twice, but [counting the AFTERGLOW version] three times on these reissues.  If they could have combined the energy and guitar riffs of the live versions with the better mix of the studio version, this could have been one of their best recordings.  I will always feel that "Left Hand" and "Recurring Dream" were shoulda-been hits that just missed their chance.

[4] I find it interesting that a few tracks weren't included because Neil didn't like them.  I understand him perhaps not wanting a sub-par recording or a clearly unfinished tune on one of the bonus discs.  But it's surprising that he doesn’t want a song like "Most Unwanted" included.  Is it the best song they ever created?  Certainly not.  But it's part of their story and is an unreleased tune.  And, for what it's worth, it's got a great chorus that simply soars.  At least we have the fan club live version.

And, yeah, it hurts to know that songs like "Good Luck Morning" aren't being released, because, in the case of that one, Peter Green himself once wrote that it's one of his favorites.

But...wow.  So much music coming our way very soon.  It must be incredibly gratifying to finally, after all these years, see it being released.  Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jaffaman,

Regards,

mattl

 

[4] I find it interesting that a few tracks weren't included because Neil didn't like them.  I understand him perhaps not wanting a sub-par recording or a clearly unfinished tune on one of the bonus discs.  But it's surprising that he doesn’t want a song like "Most Unwanted" included.  Is it the best song they ever created?  Certainly not.  But it's part of their story and is an unreleased tune.  And, for what it's worth, it's got a great chorus that simply soars.  At least we have the fan club live version.

And the MTV version is far greater than the one the fan club cd

Patjoller posted:
 

[4] I find it interesting that a few tracks weren't included because Neil didn't like them.  I understand him perhaps not wanting a sub-par recording or a clearly unfinished tune on one of the bonus discs.  But it's surprising that he doesn’t want a song like "Most Unwanted" included.  Is it the best song they ever created?  Certainly not.  But it's part of their story and is an unreleased tune.  And, for what it's worth, it's got a great chorus that simply soars.  At least we have the fan club live version.

And the MTV version is far greater than the one the fan club cd

The MTV version is incredible! It is by far the best Crowded House song that never saw the light of day.

Okay, I just listened to the MTV version for the first time.  The only version I could find is a rather crude one on YouTube that was sourced from a horrible videocassette that cuts off the end of the song.

But, looking past the technical shortcomings of the recording, I much prefer the live fan club version.  I like the way the verse almost has a reggae feel to the groove, and I think the melody is more suited to the song being arranged as a midtempo ballad.  And I really don't care for the sax.  Familiarity and the fact that I heard the fan club version first probably has something to do with it as well.

But it's clear you both love the MTV one.  I'm happy we have both versions to appreciate.

mattl

 

blueno1se posted:

Erm, I Walk Away?  Appears on the tracklisting for the Aussie CD release but not in the vinyl or anywhere on the USA/UK one?  Hmmm.

Must be an error with the listing, not the actual releases. IWA has been part of the worldwide tracklist for years. Can't imagine it going missing at this point, at least for the CD. Vinyl will be interesting, seeing as the original Aus vinyl had Can't Carry On but no IWA, whereas the original international vinyl had IWA but no CCO. I still wouldn't be surprised to see both on the re-release, if that doesn't make the album too long to cut well.

GeoffR posted:
blueno1se posted:

Erm, I Walk Away?  Appears on the tracklisting for the Aussie CD release but not in the vinyl or anywhere on the USA/UK one?  Hmmm.

Must be an error with the listing, not the actual releases. IWA has been part of the worldwide tracklist for years. Can't imagine it going missing at this point, at least for the CD. Vinyl will be interesting, seeing as the original Aus vinyl had Can't Carry On but no IWA, whereas the original international vinyl had IWA but no CCO. I still wouldn't be surprised to see both on the re-release, if that doesn't make the album too long to cut well.

Someone ought to fix all those listings, then.  Too much confusion.  Know Your Product!

Whysus posted:
My only question would be if there was any material post Intriguer available for consideration? I know mention was made at the time of the band being briefly in the studio with some new songs after the Intriguer tour but nothing ever came from it. I always wondered how much was actually achieved during those sessions...

There are two tracks on the Intriguer bonus disc that began life in those post-Intriguer sessions. They're the only two tracks in the entire collection I haven't heard yet because they were still being worked on in LA with Nick Launay when we finalised the tracklist. "Two Minutes of Silence" and "Nonsense Of Course".

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