Hey there Camus .quote:Originally posted by Camus:
[qb] Hi Secret God,[/qb]
You seem to be more knowledgable (is that a word?) than me. <<< I thought I better add that before I start talking about something I don't know much about . Having said that, I know there's a difference between composing & arranging! (not that you were emplying otherwise). You could be right in believing that Neil didn't "arrange" all the Crowded House songs, but I personally wouldn't find it hard to believe, considering he wanted to control everything (and rightly so). The only way I could see Neil letting Nick write the bass line & Paul write the drum track is if he felt they would do a better job than him, AND Neil feeling justified in having someone tampering with his songs without crediting them at all - I've just always had the feeling that what came about on the studio albums was exactly how Neil had imagined and wanted it to sound... and if he required assistance from someone, he would credit them as a co-songwriter, because he was overly kind in that regard. I don't think Nick is uncreative or anything, but I just wouldn't think he brought any of that creativeness to the band's music (apart from that brilliant cover of pale blue eyes - which was only vocals, but...).quote:I agree with what Seven Worlds wrote. I find it hard to believe that Neil arranged the songs totally by himself. There is a distinction here between writing a song, and arranging it.
That, I can't agree with. It's my opinion that a song's solo is part of the song (especially in DDIO's case!) so whoever wrote a song's solo should get credit... like didn't Eddie Van Halen write the solo part to Michael Jackson's beat it? I dunno if he got credit for it, but it's a major part of the song (as is the case with the DDIO bit) & if he did write it, he should be credited.quote:It's in Something So Strong that Mitchel Froom wrote the solo for Don't Dream It's Over. This is a solo though, so quite rightly he isn't credited, as Neil Finn wrote the song.
I had no idea that Mitchell Froom actually wrote that solo (from 1:46 right through to 2:24?), so thanks for the news.
Um... I have no idea who Johnny Hodges is, let alone Duke Ellington, so I won't put my opinion forward on that topic, but if that Johnny Hodges bloke improvised on one of that Duke Ellington dude's songs, I believe he should be credited for what he did... just as Eddie Rayner and Mitchell Froom were.quote:Let's take it a step further, should Duke Ellington have credited Johnny Hodges (possibly the most famous of all of Ellington's men, Hodges was THE alto sax player in Ellington's band from 1928 until he died in the late sixties) for all those incredible solos on Ellington's tunes? Of course not, because Ellington wrote the framework and the melody that Hodges then improvised on.
Well I don't know really why he did bother with the whole "band" concept... maybe because he didn't want even more attention? Maybe because he wanted a guise? Maybe because it was the logical thing to do back in the 1980s? Maybe because he thought Paul's humorous personallity could help his "band" become world dominant? I doubt it had much to do with Nick Seymour's equally creative genius .quote:I firmly believe that when Neil Finn writes a song it is a melody, chords and most likely the harmonies. Bands where the songwriter dictates each and every part to the other performers rarely work. Why bother with a band?
That thought isn't as strange as it may have originally seemed to readers. Get this: In the 19 songs I have from the Try Whistling This sessions, only 14 of them were solely written by Neil.... and from the One Nil album, it seems Neil Finn only wrote SEVEN by himself. Does that tell us that Neil Finn's new bands have more creative imput than what his various Crowded House line-ups had?quote:Easier to use session musicians.
Yes, in a lot of cases that's probably correct. In REM for example, each member gets equal credit for the songs written... so does that mean each member actually contributed to all the songs enough to warrant a songwriting credit? Probably not, but it would have people / fans thinking everyone brought a part to a band.quote:The whole thing about a band is you have the foundation of the song and everybody brings their part to it.
So how did Crowded House last nearly 12 years? (I guess that's where we disagree)quote:Bands usually end when players have no creative input into the arrangement.
Good point. I have no idea if Phil Judd was that much of a genius to write all that, so he probably relied on Eddie Rayner's (hopefully I didn't spell his name wrong again) skills, but not enough to warrant a co-written song I guess?quote:The songs on Mental Notes are credited to either Judd/Finn or Judd. Do you seriously think that they wrote all the parts? Including ALL of Eddie Rayner's keyboard parts (remember Tim Finn does not play piano to anything near the standard of Eddie Rayner, and as far as I know Phil Judd couldn't play keyboards at all at the time)? But if you look at the sleeve notes, it clearly states that the songs are all arranged by Split Enz. I don't believe for a second that either Finn or Judd wrote Mike Chunn's bass lines.
Well why didn't Neil give a bit more (due?) credit to Mark Hart, ect?quote:Essentially the song is written, it is arranged by the band. Think how Together Alone was written. Most of the arrangements came out of group jams.
Ahhh... it was Mark Hart who suggested that? I remember hearing that a while back, but didn't know it was Mark. But if all Mark did was say "Hey, Neil... why don't you make that song slower?", that shouldn't mean he should be credited, but if he re-arranged the song completely, he should. I don't know what sort of changes Mark made sorry.quote:Mark Hart turned Locked Out from a slow acoustic ballad to the Ramones version (Neil Finn's own words) that we have today. I notice Locked Out is written solely by Neil Finn though.
Well if he wrote the bass lines to Neil's songs, then I also would think it would be the same deal with Paul. If he didn't come up with the bass lines to Neil's songs, then I'd still reckon he helped out Paul's songs.quote:...Yes, I do firmly believe that Nick came up with the bass lines to Paul's songs.
Listening now... & I can't honestly figure out that song. The chorus is too distorted to tell what is where & the drum track is weird. Sorry.quote:...(listen to Twisty Bass if you want to hear a Neil Finn bass line).
Phew! That's a relief. Nah, it's cool... your post was entertaining & informative & I know you weren't having a go @ me.quote:I'm not having a go at you or anything like that (obligatory )...
Well I think he probably had some idea of how the overall song (including the drum track) was going to sound... & someone else writing the drum track to a song isn't going to mean the song is going to sound much different, so if he didn't like what Paul came up with, he would have him configure it I guess. I haven't read Something So Strong or anything & I don't know all about the band, so my thoughts are only just that.quote:but to answer your questions, no I don't believe Neil Finn wrote the basslines to all the CH songs. What I do believe is that he would reject bass lines, make suggestions and that he wrote the lyrics (though even this isn't necessarily true Paul Hester wrote the line about blood in the chorus of Four Seasons and we're all aware that Liam Finn wrote the line about Mrs Hairy Legs in Chocolate Cake) the chords and the melody. Do you think Neil wrote all of Paul's drum parts as well?
Did he play the drums on that? Are you talking about the studio version? Doesn't the drums sound any good or something?quote:Having heard You Can Touch I'd say Neil Finns keeping his drumming genius very very quiet.
And what's wrong with a song sounding like lester? It's a classic song in it's original form although I've believe I've got an even better version of it where Neil performs it live with Crowded House... & Paul actually chips in with some mild percussion halfway through. The harmonys are amazing there, as is the soundboard quality. (Neil: I've got a dog... so has Paul... I'd like to dedicate this to those dogs...).quote:When Neil Finn writes a song I imagine they sound like the demo of Lester, either a solo acoustic or piano, lyrics, melody and harmonies.
This would have to be the longest post I have ever posted to this forum! Feel special Camus!