Intriguer Deluxe Reissue discussion

Thom Bullock posted:

If our first exposure to TIYL or Either Side... was on Intriguer, their standing might be much different. 

Didn't see your post before Absolutely right - my first experience with any song from Intriguer was with the album version, so naturally they are mostly my preferred versions. 

lavar78 posted:
FWIW, I also see the alternate "Saturday Sun" as a missed opportunity to showcase "Cars Collide."

The only studio recording of "Cars Collide" that I could find among the more than 24 hours of Intriguer mixes were a couple of distant one-mic reference recordings of early run-throughs. Not much of a song anyway, in my opinion.

As you probably know, part of it ended up in "Isolation".

Though I'm really enjoying the remastering of all the albums, Intriguer is maybe the most notable to me. It's the newest album so in theory you might expect to hear the littlest difference, but it's fairly obvious to me.

I've never liked Intriguer very much -- I don't like Jim Scott's production and too much of it feels abandoned mid-stream, not as obsessively crafted as the rest of their albums, and suffers for it. I also didn't like the quality of sound. The drums still sound small and terrible to me, but the new mastering has taken away a layer of scratchy harshness, especially apparent on Neil's vocals. They now sound fairly silky and smooth, and not weirdly abrasive as they seemed to before. But I find it much more sonically listenable overall, even if I still have issues with the content.

I noticed a similar abrasive quality on The Sun Came Out, and decided I just didn't like the sound of things from Roundhead Studios. But the Intriguer reissue makes me think it was partially the mastering's fault. Does anyone else notice and enjoy this difference?

If not had a chance to really listen to the parent album remasters (read: I've been listening incessantly to the bonus discs) but yes, I've heard a difference between the two masters. I've yet to listen intently enough to form an opinion regarding which I prefer, but I do notice that they're surprisingly different.

Finfan posted:

That's a fab post, Dazz. I'm so impressed with the deluxe of this; actually prefer Isolation and Saturday Sun in their 'new/old' guises. Only Way To Go Is Forwards is my favourite on the whole of discs 1 and 2. I always loved the original TIYL but that version you may recall where Neil gets the crowd to sing a note first and then the band join in. Plus the marvellous Falling Dove live from that period. In short, I think I would have completely dug an Intriguer a bit less adorned and perfected if such a word. Please don't get me wrong, can't mess with Neil's choices and these are just my personal preferences. One thing for definite, Intriguer disc 2 has made the whole thing come alive.

I love that TIYL version.  I was part of the 9:30 Club audience that night trying to hit that note.  That was an amazing show.  They played for 2:45 and the new songs went off extremely well.  Unfortunately, that TIYL version has disappeared online.  You can still find the Turn It Around video from that show online.  

Above the Kitchen posted:
Finfan posted:

That's a fab post, Dazz. I'm so impressed with the deluxe of this; actually prefer Isolation and Saturday Sun in their 'new/old' guises. Only Way To Go Is Forwards is my favourite on the whole of discs 1 and 2. I always loved the original TIYL but that version you may recall where Neil gets the crowd to sing a note first and then the band join in. Plus the marvellous Falling Dove live from that period. In short, I think I would have completely dug an Intriguer a bit less adorned and perfected if such a word. Please don't get me wrong, can't mess with Neil's choices and these are just my personal preferences. One thing for definite, Intriguer disc 2 has made the whole thing come alive.

I love that TIYL version.  I was part of the 9:30 Club audience that night trying to hit that note.  That was an amazing show.  They played for 2:45 and the new songs went off extremely well.  Unfortunately, that TIYL version has disappeared online.  You can still find the Turn It Around video from that show online.  

That's great you were there and remember that version. It was slightly faster  aswell? Just seemed to have more kick!

 

Paul H posted:

Can anyone recall where the (now lost) version of TIYL that morphed into Lola was recorded?

That version was played at The Forum in Melbourne on 2008-12-02. They played the song at the same venue the next night (sans "Lola") and then again at Sydney's Enmore Theatre on the 4th. 

I'm surprised at some of the criticism of "Saturday Sun" in this thread, because the alternate version just confirms for me that the shoegazy electronic distortion is what makes it such a great song and I wish more of Intriguer had that influence. It's the one Crowded House v2 song to crack my top 15, possibly top 10. The earlier version is more generic and forgettable.

Anyway, interesting bonus disc. I wasn't at any of the gigs where "Only Way to Go Is Forward" was played, so I'm not sure I'd ever heard it before. Definitely a stellar song that I'm surprised did not make the album. The other tracks that missed out by and large fail to excite me - my god are "Bound to Rescue" and "God Lives Over the Road" boring - but it's nice to hear the early "Isolation" again because I enjoyed it so much live.

Jaffaman posted:
lavar78 posted:
FWIW, I also see the alternate "Saturday Sun" as a missed opportunity to showcase "Cars Collide."

The only studio recording of "Cars Collide" that I could find among the more than 24 hours of Intriguer mixes were a couple of distant one-mic reference recordings of early run-throughs. Not much of a song anyway, in my opinion.

As you probably know, part of it ended up in "Isolation".

Thanks for letting me know. Funny, I've always thought of this song as a precursor to "Saturday Sun." The live version (here) seemed to be pretty mature, so I guess they had all but abandoned it by the time of that studio recording. I wouldn't say it was one of my favorites from the Intriguer tour, but the line "a moment froze in time, you feel when cars collide" is one of the ones that stuck with me immediately and it's never left.

Just digging into Intriguer bonus disc. Had heard the Leigh Sawmill recordings before on Youtube, but they sound glorious here.

I was startled to read in the liner notes that Jim Scott had previewed 25 songs Neil offered for this. I think we can identify about 18 or so. Jaffa, have you heard any that haven't surfaced yet? Can you toss us any bones about what may still be out there from this time period?

Steve Shealy posted:

I was startled to read in the liner notes that Jim Scott had previewed 25 songs Neil offered for this. I think we can identify about 18 or so. Jaffa, have you heard any that haven't surfaced yet? Can you toss us any bones about what may still be out there from this time period?

Off the top of my head, let's see...

 

1. Turn It Around
2. Either Side of the World
3. Archer's Arrows
4. Falling Dove
5. Elephants
6. Twice If You're Lucky
7. Saturday Sun
8. Isolation
9. Inside Out
10. Even If
11. Amsterdam
12. The Intriguer
13. The Only Way to Go Is Forward
14. Better Things
15. Beautiful Life
16. Bound to Rescue
17. Cars Collide
18. Eyes Grow Heavy
19. God Lives Over the Road

That's all I can think of...did I miss anything?

I too was surprised by the absence of Cars Collide, but quickly noticed its similarity to Only Way To Go Is Forward, at least in the chorus. Got me thinking that perhaps they are different evolutions of the same song, or there was at least some borrowing between the two. Anyone know if this was the case?

Paul H posted:

Can anyone recall where the (now lost) version of TIYL that morphed into Lola was recorded?

It is still around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Da8FnTiqaY

...Unless you mean there was once a better quality recording of it somewhere? Because that would have been fantastic.

This version was absolutely gorgeous, could well have been the best song from Intriguer if it was released in this form. I was ecstatic to spot a live version on this Deluxe release and I'll admit to slight disappointment to find the song in a bit of a hybrid state. I wanted the full monty of heavy guitars and moody vocals- exactly like the video, just a better sound quality.

"789" was also often played on tour 2008., and that song was precedeer of Intriguer song. Have to say that when I heard 789 developed into Intriguer song live 2008., I was pretty dissapointed. But, studio version made it right, its just perfect to me!

Cradle2Grave posted:
Paul H posted:

Can anyone recall where the (now lost) version of TIYL that morphed into Lola was recorded?

It is still around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Da8FnTiqaY

...Unless you mean there was once a better quality recording of it somewhere? Because that would have been fantastic.

This version was absolutely gorgeous, could well have been the best song from Intriguer if it was released in this form. I was ecstatic to spot a live version on this Deluxe release and I'll admit to slight disappointment to find the song in a bit of a hybrid state. I wanted the full monty of heavy guitars and moody vocals- exactly like the video, just a better sound quality.

Of the three known (to me) nights they performed this version, the first one (with "Lola") is easily my least favorite. They nailed it the third time in Sydney. That's the version that has been the first track on my Intriguer-era playlist and the one I was hoping would make the bonus disc.

I'm a bit embarrassed. Even though the original came with lyrics, I guess I never looked too closely. The line in Archer's Arrows that I have always heard as "Kids get sand on the floor, they make it a work of art" is actually "Kids KISSING on the floor". I like my line better; I had this mental image of kids coming in sandy from the beach and getting sand all over the floor, moving it around until it makes a work of art. Kids kissing? Seems a bit creepy.

Cradle2Grave posted:
Paul H posted:

Can anyone recall where the (now lost) version of TIYL that morphed into Lola was recorded?

It is still around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Da8FnTiqaY

...Unless you mean there was once a better quality recording of it somewhere? Because that would have been fantastic.

This version was absolutely gorgeous, could well have been the best song from Intriguer if it was released in this form. I was ecstatic to spot a live version on this Deluxe release and I'll admit to slight disappointment to find the song in a bit of a hybrid state. I wanted the full monty of heavy guitars and moody vocals- exactly like the video, just a better sound quality.

That's the one. I didn't find it because I was looking for "Twice if You're Lucky". There are a couple of versions of this arrangement. I like this one but mainly because it's the one I've listened to most often. I need to audition the others because I really would like to nail a recording of it. Much as I love the final version, I lament the loss of this one.

Steve Shealy posted:

I'm a bit embarrassed. Even though the original came with lyrics, I guess I never looked too closely. The line in Archer's Arrows that I have always heard as "Kids get sand on the floor, they make it a work of art" is actually "Kids KISSING on the floor". I like my line better; I had this mental image of kids coming in sandy from the beach and getting sand all over the floor, moving it around until it makes a work of art. Kids kissing? Seems a bit creepy.

C mon , Steve... isnt every kiss about to be sexual. Whats creepy about innocent kids kissing? My little daughter Tara (4, 5) every now and then huging and kissing (on departure or something like that) with friends (girls)... we are teaching her to be warm and tender... nothing creepy about that... I like that line in "Archers Arrows", and whole idea of it...reminds me of those paintings with little angels playing, dancing and kissing..

Mariola posted:
Steve Shealy posted:

I'm a bit embarrassed. Even though the original came with lyrics, I guess I never looked too closely. The line in Archer's Arrows that I have always heard as "Kids get sand on the floor, they make it a work of art" is actually "Kids KISSING on the floor". I like my line better; I had this mental image of kids coming in sandy from the beach and getting sand all over the floor, moving it around until it makes a work of art. Kids kissing? Seems a bit creepy.

C mon , Steve... isnt every kiss about to be sexual. Whats creepy about innocent kids kissing? My little daughter Tara (4, 5) every now and then huging and kissing (on departure or something like that) with friends (girls)... we are teaching her to be warm and tender... nothing creepy about that... I like that line in "Archers Arrows", and whole idea of it...reminds me of those paintings with little angels playing, dancing and kissing..

I think it's more "on the floor, making it a work of art". guess I'm making too much of it. 

Steve Shealy posted:
Mariola posted:
Steve Shealy posted:

I'm a bit embarrassed. Even though the original came with lyrics, I guess I never looked too closely. The line in Archer's Arrows that I have always heard as "Kids get sand on the floor, they make it a work of art" is actually "Kids KISSING on the floor". I like my line better; I had this mental image of kids coming in sandy from the beach and getting sand all over the floor, moving it around until it makes a work of art. Kids kissing? Seems a bit creepy.

C mon , Steve... isnt every kiss about to be sexual. Whats creepy about innocent kids kissing? My little daughter Tara (4, 5) every now and then huging and kissing (on departure or something like that) with friends (girls)... we are teaching her to be warm and tender... nothing creepy about that... I like that line in "Archers Arrows", and whole idea of it...reminds me of those paintings with little angels playing, dancing and kissing..

I think it's more "on the floor, making it a work of art". guess I'm making too much of it. 

I love the line, but I've always thought "making too much of it" is exactly Neil's point. If you saw 2 kids kissing on the floor, you would (more than likely) appreciate the beauty of their innocence and affection. But if someone hangs a picture of the same scene in an art gallery, people pick it apart and pervert it.

Steve Shealy posted:

Just digging into Intriguer bonus disc. Had heard the Leigh Sawmill recordings before on Youtube, but they sound glorious here.

I was startled to read in the liner notes that Jim Scott had previewed 25 songs Neil offered for this. I think we can identify about 18 or so. Jaffa, have you heard any that haven't surfaced yet? Can you toss us any bones about what may still be out there from this time period?

Corporate Mindset is the only title I don't think's been mentioned. There's only a rough one-mic rehearsal recording.

Took a shot at making a new tracklist with the best songs from the album and the best b-sides.

 

1. Only Way To Go Is Forwards (live)

2. The Intriguer

3. Turn it Around

4. Either Side of the World

5. Falling Dove

6. Nonsense of Course

7. Isolation

8. Bound to Rescue (live)

9. Two Minutes of Silence

10. Twice If You're Lucky

11. Eyes Grow Heavy

12. Elephants

Interesting tracklist. I think Intriguer splits opinions, so I think the 'best' of the sessions would be very different, person to person. I much prefer the ToE version of Bound to Rescue, but clearly Neil never quite felt he got it right. 

I can't quite understand the disdain for Saturday Sun. It's not the best song, but it's much more of a 'single' sound than Don't Stop Now. As it happens I vastly prefer Don't Stop Now, but as 'radio' songs go, I think Saturday Sun ticks a lot of boxes. 

I have found hearing Crowded House versions of Loose Tongue and Strangest Friends fascinating. They're almost fully developed and recognisable, but the feel is completely different. 

Fair enough. I only just got my ToE disc today after delays so I haven't heard that version of Bound to Rescue yet, really like the stripped down/spiritual feel of the Intriguer version though. I think there was a great song buried under the layers in Saturday Sun, but all the distortion and stuff kind of ruins it for me. Don't Stop Now is about as good as it gets for radio singles, imo.

Rowan5215 posted:

Took a shot at making a new tracklist with the best songs from the album and the best b-sides.

 

1. Only Way To Go Is Forwards (live)

2. The Intriguer

3. Turn it Around

4. Either Side of the World

5. Falling Dove

6. Nonsense of Course

7. Isolation

8. Bound to Rescue (live)

9. Two Minutes of Silence

10. Twice If You're Lucky

11. Eyes Grow Heavy

12. Elephants

Meanwhile, my three favourite songs from Intriguer are Archer's Arrows, Saturday Sun and Amsterdam. Opinions are a beautiful thing

Rowan5215 posted:

Don't Stop Now is about as good as it gets for radio singles, imo.

That's really interesting. The first time I heard it my first thought was that it wasn't a good single. The tempo didn't change much and the chorus wasn't catchy. It's one of my top 10 Neil Finn songs, but it's strange (in a good way) that we heard it differently. 

I'm sure you'll like the ToE version of BTR. It made simply be that I prefer the version I heard first. 

"Meanwhile, my three favourite songs from Intriguer are Archer's Arrows, Saturday Sun and Amsterdam. Opinions are a beautiful thing "

 

indeed! Neil is always fantastic in his own way, just depends on which style you prefer.

"That's really interesting. The first time I heard it my first thought was that it wasn't a good single. The tempo didn't change much and the chorus wasn't catchy. It's one of my top 10 Neil Finn songs, but it's strange (in a good way) that we heard it differently."

this is true, but my idea of a perfect pop song doesn't really need huge tempo changes or anything like that. Head Over Heels is the greatest pop song I can think of and the tempo doesn't really change at all. I've always really loved how the tone of Don't Stop Now changes to really dark and sinister in the bridge, with the "churchyard ten miles out of town" bit, and then straight back into the breezy chorus. Neil is so good at those tonal shifts

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